AJC

I have read the 06 will have 18inch rims

TrueBlueCajun

Thank God my plans are to get an '08 Model yr. Mustang. Hopefully by then this mess will be history. I say if you're waiting on your GT order and you see a GT that you could live with on the lot and the price is what you could live with, I'd say jump on it. The best advice is to wait until Sept. '05. Then you'll see great deals on these '05 models. They probably won't have what you ordered, but at least you would have one. Not to knock any '05 V6 owners because I owned a V6 Vert in '00 and loved it while I had it. If Ford thinks that a '05 V6 model is great alternative to a '05 GT model, I'd like to have the drugs their taking. No way is the V6 close to the GT in performance. 100+hp tells me it's night and day from a V6. Drove both '05 V6 and GT and my opinion is the V6 is no way close to the GT. Yeah, same cosmetic options, but there's no way in Hades I'd settle for a V6 over a GT if my order wasn't coming in. I'd rather purchase a GT off the lot then settle on a V6 that has what I wanted in my ordered GT. Like I said before, I owned a '00 V6 Vert and loved it while I had it, but when I got my '02 GT Vert, I knew I'd never go back to a V6. But that's just my opinion.

74Mach1

It seems to be hard for a lot of people on this forum to admit that Ford can do anything wrong, but the 2005 Mustang "shortage" is completely their fault. Moreover, Ford has done much better in adapting to surges in demand in the past. For instance, consider the following:

2004 - 112K
2005 - 192K

This year sales have increased by 80K units and this represents 1.71 times the previous year's totals. But...

1973 - 134K
1974 - 385K

That was an increase of 251K units (more than 3 times the 2005 increase) and represented 2.87 times the previous year's totals. Yes, Mustang production almost tripled in one year.

You can't convince me that Ford expected the 1974 to sell that well since it hadn't sold that well during the previous six years. They quickly adapted and there was no shortage. I bought a loaded Mach1 during the summer of 1974 and had no problem getting exactly what I wanted.

If Ford knew how to do it in 1974, surely they still remember how to do it in 2005. They simply refused to. I've read that the production capacity for the Mustang assembly line is 1000 units per day. That comes out to 365K units for the year. (They're sharing plant production with the Mazda 6, not the same assembly line.) So why has production been so far below capacity? Because Ford wouldn't spend the money to bring the line up to full speed - things like hiring extra workers, paying overtime and paying premiums for materials that are in short supply. They are gambling that hacked off potential customers will patiently wait for months. Maybe they're right.

Webba

Yes but in 1974 they didnt have alot of the stuff in the cars they have now...ABS, air bags, computers, fuel injection..on and on. If they could flip a switch and pump all these cars out dont oyu think they would??? It isnt as easy as some are making it sound.

TomServo92

It seems to be hard for a lot of people on this forum to admit that Ford can do anything wrong, but the 2005 Mustang "shortage" is completely their fault. Moreover, Ford has done much better in adapting to surges in demand in the past. For instance, consider the following:

2004 - 112K
2005 - 192K

This year sales have increased by 80K units and this represents 1.71 times the previous year's totals. But...

1973 - 134K
1974 - 385K

That was an increase of 251K units (more than 3 times the 2005 increase) and represented 2.87 times the previous year's totals. Yes, Mustang production almost tripled in one year.

You can't convince me that Ford expected the 1974 to sell that well since it hadn't sold that well during the previous six years. They quickly adapted and there was no shortage. I bought a loaded Mach1 during the summer of 1974 and had no problem getting exactly what I wanted.

If Ford knew how to do it in 1974, surely they still remember how to do it in 2005. They simply refused to. I've read that the production capacity for the Mustang assembly line is 1000 units per day. That comes out to 365K units for the year. (They're sharing plant production with the Mazda 6, not the same assembly line.) So why has production been so far below capacity? Because Ford wouldn't spend the money to bring the line up to full speed - things like hiring extra workers, paying overtime and paying premiums for materials that are in short supply. They are gambling that hacked off potential customers will patiently wait for months. Maybe they're right.
[/b][/quote]

It was a different world in 1974. Ford didn't have the economic pressures from overseas they have now. They can't afford to have extra capacity just sitting around. In case you didn't know, that costs money. On top of that, I would expect sales to start tailing off over the next couple years. Another production line may not be needed in 2-3 years.

Also, you're completely wrong about the Mustang and Mazda6 only sharing a plant. They do share the same assembly line. It's a flexible line and can assemble both cars at the same time. You'll see a mix of Mazda6s and Mustangs coming down the line at the same time.

As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.

PACETTR

If you can get me a mineral grey GT coupe with a black/red interior, give me a hoot.
[/b][/quote]
PM me if you are serious...

moc1976

I agree with you 74Mach1, God forbid some people on here admit that Ford did anything wrong. And I do respect those opinions that disagree with mine. I'm not trying to bash Ford, in fact I'm glad that they are producing great cars and trucks, and I have my first Ford on order.

The main thing I was trying to point out was that Ford screwed up on the % of GTs produced, and they haven't done much to fix it. I know they have increased procution, but they haven't increased the % of GTs being produced. There is great potential that a large number of GT orders are not getting filled on the '05. To say get a V6 or wait till 06 and not be price protected is the WRONG answer from Ford for these unlucky people.

Ford needs to lure customers back that are buying imports. Domestic manufacturers are losing market share at a pretty scary pace. Ford's customer service stinks as this situation shows and this is one of the main reasons they are losing market share.

Again, I'm not trying to bash Ford, I'm just upset about the status of my order. I also want to see Ford and the American car companies do well, but until they do better at customer service I don't see this happening. A lot of people on this board are die-hard Ford fans, and that is fine. But there are also some unbiased opinions and points of view that are valid from others.

Ok, sorry to carry on, maybe I'll call the robot lady tomorrow and I'll be something other than C/U

TomServo92

I agree with you 74Mach1, God forbid some people on here admit that Ford did anything wrong. And I do respect those opinions that disagree with mine. I'm not trying to bash Ford, in fact I'm glad that they are producing great cars and trucks, and I have my first Ford on order.

The main thing I was trying to point out was that Ford screwed up on the % of GTs produced, and they haven't done much to fix it. I know they have increased procution, but they haven't increased the % of GTs being produced. There is great potential that a large number of GT orders are not getting filled on the '05. To say get a V6 or wait till 06 and not be price protected is the WRONG answer from Ford for these unlucky people.

Ford needs to lure customers back that are buying imports. Domestic manufacturers are losing market share at a pretty scary pace. Ford's customer service stinks as this situation shows and this is one of the main reasons they are losing market share.

Again, I'm not trying to bash Ford, I'm just upset about the status of my order. I also want to see Ford and the American car companies do well, but until they do better at customer service I don't see this happening. A lot of people on this board are die-hard Ford fans, and that is fine. But there are also some unbiased opinions and points of view that are valid from others.

Ok, sorry to carry on, maybe I'll call the robot lady tomorrow and I'll be something other than C/U
[/b][/quote]

I'm not saying Ford is perfect. But I think they are being unfairly slammed for making what they saw as an appropriate business decision given the information they had to work with 2-3 years ago. If they had assumed 250K sales per year and it didn't do any better than previous years, they'd be in a world of hurt, having to give away Mustangs with big incentives (i.e. the GTO).

Again, I go back to how can they increase the percantage of GTs if they (meaning Ford and their suppliers) don't have the production capacity to produce the increased number of GT parts? It baffles me that some of you can't grasp the concept that these parts don't just magically appear in the warehouse. I have no doubt that Ford is producing GTs at the highest possible rate that they can given the number of GT parts they have available.

jwede

Its not about fault, it is about blame.

The only thing I think Ford could have handled better was the filling of older orders. Its easy for people to say that Ford should have some theoretical "plan" if this happens but why should they? Why hurt the profit margin? I know it stinks.

I keep thinking back to the PT cruiser. People were paying big markups, then when the production was ramped up, there were hundreds sitting on the lots not making any money.

I don't blame Ford for not spending millions on ramping up production. Why throw away the money? Next thing you know is that the GT Deluxe will have a base price of 30K to recoupe what they lost to make a few thousandd extra cars.

Webba

And while there percentage remains the same of 37% after ramoing up production it could also be due to the increase in v-6 sales. If v-6 sales climb in tandom it will always remain at around the same percentage. I am frustrated as much as the next person, although I havent been waiting long compared to some of you, but I do understand what goes into making these things and it is a nightmare. If they could magically have a new line tomorrow the testing and working out the bugs of the equipment and new employees needed alone would take a while. This is what is scary about us losing manufacturing jobs to overseas. If we lose the ability to produce nececities like food, clothes, etc. in this country and suddenly the country producing them has a tiff with us we are screwed. Once the ability to produce the goods in this country is gone we cant get it back easily. The workers move onto to other careers, retire, die, machinery is gone, ability to even make the aurtomation is gone...you get the picture. It is a huge snowball effect. And as I said before, if you can learn to make a widget, in time you can learn how to make centrifuges and nukes. it is scary.

Hellcat6

"The best advice is to wait until Sept. '05. Then you'll see great deals on these '05 models. "

I'm sorry TrueBlueCajun but I think that is the worst advice that I have ever seen given on this forum. With talk of thousands of GT orders not getting built at all as 05s, there will be no deals on GTs. No price protection, orders not carried over, big price increase probably on the 06, what part of that leads you to believe that a new 05 GT sitting on a lot in September is going to be a bargain price? End of year closeout on a Focus maybe but on a GT? Maybe they will knock it down to MSRP! I just can't agree with you at all on that one! IMHO, of course.

Arioch

05 GT's sell from the lot within days... new unsold 05 GT's are likely to be a very rare sight after mid-August.

kcrw898

They won't talk me into settling for the V6!!!!!

Stadifer

Price increases are inevidable but some people are talking like Ford will increase the price of the car in the ballpark of $4000. Ford would never give Mustang a huge price spike simply because the mantra of the Mustang is "The most power for your buck." The Mustang has been such a seller because it has been cheap compared to other cars with comparable performance. If the GT jumps to $30,000 base price next year the Mustang completely loses its "Affordable muscle" tag and probably takes a hit in sales. Same for the V6. If it spikes to a base of $25k or $26k I can probably go find another car that has comparable numbers for $23k.

If Ford had a price spike they would price themselves out of their own market. Will we likely see another series of $200 or $300 price increases every 4 or 5 months. Probably, but not a $1,000 spike.

74Mach1

According to Jim Padilla, Ford's COO, the capacity of the plant is 290K so if you subtract 70K Mazda 6s, you get 220K Mustangs, not the 192K Ford says they're going to build. Clearly, not full capacity.

And just what is "full capacity?" No Ford executive is going to publicly admit that they're too cheap to hire additional workers or pay overtime, so they're not going to sell all the cars that they could. So suddenly "full capacity" is defined as the number of cars they can build using the currently committed resources. I still stand by my claim of 356K if they were fully staffed.

TomServo92

According to Jim Padilla, Ford's COO, the capacity of the plant is 290K so if you subtract 70K Mazda 6s, you get 220K Mustangs, not the 192K Ford says they're going to build. Clearly, not full capacity.

And just what is "full capacity?" No Ford executive is going to publicly admit that they're too cheap to hire additional workers or pay overtime, so they're not going to sell all the cars that they could. So suddenly "full capacity" is defined as the number of cars they can build using the currently committed resources. I still stand by my claim of 356K if they were fully staffed.
[/b][/quote]

Really? This is a direct quote from a Mazda Corporate website:

Your 365K per year number is laughable. You obviously calculated that based on 1,000 per day times 365 days per year. The completely inaccurate assumption you're making is that the plant runs 365 days per year. Let me clue you in: they have maintenance periods throughout the year in which the plant is shut down. While they may be able to produce 1,000 per day, the actual average per day is much lower because of the downtime.

74Mach1

It's always fun debating with someone who has no math ability. On March 18th Ford announced that they were adding overtime to bring the number of Mustangs to be produced up from their original plan of 160K to 192K. Now, here's how it works: The car's been on sale since the end of September, or 1/2 of a year. If they were on a pace to produce 160K and are now on a pace to produce 192K, then

192K = 0.5(160K) + 0.5(x), where x is the new pace. Solving for x yields

x = 224K

as I said earlier:
So, that pretty much proves it if one accepts 290K as the real maximum for the plant , which I don't. I suspect that going above 290K would result in drastically reduced profits due to 1) increased labor and materials costs and 2) increased dealer holdbacks, bonuses and incentives that Ford would have to cough up if there were enough Mustangs to satisfy demand.

By the way, Ford's estimates were not too far off. They had projected a 35% demand for GTs, and it is currently running at 40%.

TomServo92

It's always fun debating with someone who has no math ability. On March 18th Ford announced that they were adding overtime to bring the number of Mustangs to be produced up from their original plan of 160K to 192K. Now, here's how it works: The car's been on sale since the end of September, or 1/2 of a year. If they were on a pace to produce 160K and are now on a pace to produce 192K, then

192K = 0.5(160K) + 0.5(x), where x is the new pace. Solving for x yields

x = 224K

as I said earlier:
So, that pretty much proves it if one accepts 290K as the real maximum for the plant , which I don't. I suspect that going above 290K would result in drastically reduced profits due to 1) increased labor and materials costs and 2) increased dealer holdbacks, bonuses and incentives that Ford would have to cough up if there were enough Mustangs to satisfy demand.

By the way, Ford's estimates were not too far off. They had projected a 35% demand for GTs, and it is currently running at 40%.
[/b][/quote]

It's also fun debating with someone who has no clue what they're talking about. Here's a direct quote from an Autoweek article about current Mustang production:

Hmmm... doesn't seem to add up to your 224K, now does it? :scratch: I guess that's because they are on pace to produce a total of 192,000 now that they are working overtime at AAI. Face it, your math "assumptions" are erroneous.

You seem to post alot of "facts" without providing anything to back them up. Well, here's my proof:

The Autoweek article:

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102118

The Mazda pages stating normal (not overtime) production rates for AAI:

http://www.mazda.com/publicity/relea...108/0822e.html

http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone1...ticleZoneID=87

PACETTR

Snikt

Does any of this really matter?