Unfilled '05 Orders Carried Over to '06
4/6/05, 01:41 PM
#41
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Past history showed no marked increase in sales when a new body style GT was released. That was clearly not the case this time. There is no way Ford could increase GT production without major cost factors. The ripple effect would cost way too much.
V6 sales have previosly been a major percentage of Mustang sales. The high performance cars were a much smaller percentage and Ford designed production accordingly. Oooops.
The big problem is dealers that are less than truthfull with their customers. Your dealer knows what it's allocation is. If your dealer takes more orders than they can recieve that is not Fords problem. You need to complain to Ford about that dealer. It is a dealer issue.
Your dealer knew when production was switching from '05 to '06. If he didn't tell you you may be an '06, again, a dealer issue. Complain to Ford about the dealer.
Many of the problems are dealers who just don't care about the customer.
V6 sales have previosly been a major percentage of Mustang sales. The high performance cars were a much smaller percentage and Ford designed production accordingly. Oooops.
The big problem is dealers that are less than truthfull with their customers. Your dealer knows what it's allocation is. If your dealer takes more orders than they can recieve that is not Fords problem. You need to complain to Ford about that dealer. It is a dealer issue.
Your dealer knew when production was switching from '05 to '06. If he didn't tell you you may be an '06, again, a dealer issue. Complain to Ford about the dealer.
Many of the problems are dealers who just don't care about the customer.
4/6/05, 03:49 PM
#42
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Originally posted by Eleanor Dreaming@April 6, 2005, 9:37 AM
Well if the chemical makeup of the gallon of 2% milk I bought last year, is the same as the gallon I bought this year why is it more expensive.
Well if the chemical makeup of the gallon of 2% milk I bought last year, is the same as the gallon I bought this year why is it more expensive.
4/6/05, 04:07 PM
#43
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Of couse they're going to raise the prices on the 06, because they can. The 05 is super-hot and they know it. The dealers are marking up like crazy and Ford wants some of that.
And since the options will be different on the 06's, your 05 order will be meaningless and you'll have to start over again from scratch. Which is insane.
Well, for someone who just a few days ago was worried that I wouldn't get my 05 GT in the promised 8-12 weeks, it's kind of a shock to learn I may never get one at all.
And since the options will be different on the 06's, your 05 order will be meaningless and you'll have to start over again from scratch. Which is insane.
Well, for someone who just a few days ago was worried that I wouldn't get my 05 GT in the promised 8-12 weeks, it's kind of a shock to learn I may never get one at all.
4/6/05, 05:04 PM
#44
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I'm not really surprized by this. But, if you guys aren't willing to wait, then maybe you should take Ford's advice?
If customers are interested in a GT and are not willing to wait, be sure to promote the V6. They will be surprised by the improved performance and appearance of the V6, and find that it has much of the excitement they're looking for in a GT—at a lower price. (Please note that V6 orders must be contained within your dealership's allocation.)
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. Try it maybe you'll like it?
First 2 car lots I checked out tried this. I think its BS. They tried so hard to sell me a V-6 I got verylittle to NO information on the GT. Then they think they can just jack up the price on the GT if thats what I really wanted. 2 car lots I will never go back to.
I did find some where to order a GT at msrp will the order be filled for 05 I doubt it on the other hand they had several v-6 cars on the lot that they did not try to push off on me and I can respect that. I dont like it that they direct to try and push the v-6 . Tell the customers they have to wait but dont give them somthing they dont want.
If customers are interested in a GT and are not willing to wait, be sure to promote the V6. They will be surprised by the improved performance and appearance of the V6, and find that it has much of the excitement they're looking for in a GT—at a lower price. (Please note that V6 orders must be contained within your dealership's allocation.)
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. Try it maybe you'll like it?
First 2 car lots I checked out tried this. I think its BS. They tried so hard to sell me a V-6 I got verylittle to NO information on the GT. Then they think they can just jack up the price on the GT if thats what I really wanted. 2 car lots I will never go back to.
I did find some where to order a GT at msrp will the order be filled for 05 I doubt it on the other hand they had several v-6 cars on the lot that they did not try to push off on me and I can respect that. I dont like it that they direct to try and push the v-6 . Tell the customers they have to wait but dont give them somthing they dont want.
4/6/05, 05:40 PM
#45
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Originally posted by TomServo92@April 6, 2005, 10:11 AM
Exactly. And given the information they had 2-3 years ago (when the production planning was started), they had no way of knowing if the new retro-themed Mustang would be a hit or fall flat on it's face. It's really easy to point fingers at the marketing group knowing what we know now.
Exactly. And given the information they had 2-3 years ago (when the production planning was started), they had no way of knowing if the new retro-themed Mustang would be a hit or fall flat on it's face. It's really easy to point fingers at the marketing group knowing what we know now.
4/6/05, 06:00 PM
#46
The wait doesn't bug me *too* much. What will really get me is if they switch me to an '06 and then try to hit me with a price increase. That is total B.S. I paid my deposit and have a very clear invoice that gives the final price on the car. This is a valid contract and they will be in breach if they don't deliver.
Imagine if this car were a total stinking POS and sales were way below projections (sort of like the GTO
). Do you really think the dealers would let you out of your pre-orders without a fight?? Guaranteed they would try to keep the deposit.
Imagine if this car were a total stinking POS and sales were way below projections (sort of like the GTO
). Do you really think the dealers would let you out of your pre-orders without a fight?? Guaranteed they would try to keep the deposit.
4/6/05, 06:40 PM
#48
Originally posted by Stadifer@April 6, 2005, 9:08 AM
I gotta defend Ford a little bit here. First off historically it has been the V6 sales that has carried the Mustang (roughly 70%+ EVERY year for a long time). Why would you suddenly shift production when your past numbers clearly indicate that the V6 is the bigger seller? The only reason why GT's are in such high demand is because this is the first year of an amazingly succesful re-design of America's pony car. So in turn the major Mustang fans said "I want that!" so the first year is expected to see a surge in GT sales. Next year or the year following it is likely that sales once again shift towards the V6.
Should Ford had expected this change? Perhaps, but the numbers clearly showed that the V6 is the top seller.
I gotta defend Ford a little bit here. First off historically it has been the V6 sales that has carried the Mustang (roughly 70%+ EVERY year for a long time). Why would you suddenly shift production when your past numbers clearly indicate that the V6 is the bigger seller? The only reason why GT's are in such high demand is because this is the first year of an amazingly succesful re-design of America's pony car. So in turn the major Mustang fans said "I want that!" so the first year is expected to see a surge in GT sales. Next year or the year following it is likely that sales once again shift towards the V6.
Should Ford had expected this change? Perhaps, but the numbers clearly showed that the V6 is the top seller.
1. Ford really under-estimated the total demand for the 05 Mustang and especially the GT. At one of the 05 previews I tried to tell the Ford manager that was present that Ford would easily sell 250,000 05 Stangs in the US. He told me "No way, not in this market". To which I said "open your eyes, look how many people are here to see the 05 prototype on display. When was the last time you had hundreds of people coming to a car dealer on a weekday night just to catch a glimpse of a new model?"
2. Yes, historical sales have been 70% V6 and 30% V8, but V6 sales were proped up by HUGE sales to rental companies. Up front Ford said that they were going to cut sales to rental companies. Ford obviously didn't belive their own BS. If Ford was serious about cutting rental sales, they should have looked at the historical retail V6 vs GT mix, which is close to 50% - 50% and that's what Ford should have planned for from the beginning, 50% V8s. :angry: :angry: :angry:
3. With other new models over the past few years (including the F-150) Ford totally underestimated the demand for options, such as interior upgrades. Can anyone say IUP? Again Ford is confusing rental & fleet orders with what retail customers want. You can't cut fleet sales without rebalancing the option mix to reflect what retail customers (NOT FLEET) want! :bang:
:bang: :bang:
This screw up in the marketing department is causing Ford millions of dollars in lost profit and ill will to retail custoemers which will further negatively effect the bottom line.
4/6/05, 06:52 PM
#49
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Okay let's really look at this.
CAFE rules force manufacturers to push the V6 versions. The Mustang dealers around here have been doing that for several years.We have 5 or 6 Ford dealers int he area, but a majority of them never carried any Mustangs at all, and chances are if they did they weren't GT's. :bang:
Ford would flood Budget and Hertz with V6 Mustangs and Mustang Covertibles. They were very popular rentals in Florida. I know, because when our boat would pull in to Cocoa or Liquordale every body would rent one.
If you cut the rental fleet orders out, you would probably find that GT sales were closer to 50% and not the 30% advertise.
Sorry, a V6 is a secratary's car or a Mustang for the single under 25 male insurance risk. I've driven both the V6 and the V8, and sorry, but after owning 7 Mustang GT's, a V^ isn't gonna cut the mustard. :notnice:
CAFE rules force manufacturers to push the V6 versions. The Mustang dealers around here have been doing that for several years.We have 5 or 6 Ford dealers int he area, but a majority of them never carried any Mustangs at all, and chances are if they did they weren't GT's. :bang:
Ford would flood Budget and Hertz with V6 Mustangs and Mustang Covertibles. They were very popular rentals in Florida. I know, because when our boat would pull in to Cocoa or Liquordale every body would rent one.
If you cut the rental fleet orders out, you would probably find that GT sales were closer to 50% and not the 30% advertise.
Sorry, a V6 is a secratary's car or a Mustang for the single under 25 male insurance risk. I've driven both the V6 and the V8, and sorry, but after owning 7 Mustang GT's, a V^ isn't gonna cut the mustard. :notnice:
4/6/05, 07:39 PM
#50
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Originally posted by TomServo92+April 6, 2005, 9:24 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TomServo92 @ April 6, 2005, 9:24 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-GhostTX@April 6, 2005, 8:11 AM
OMG...GTs out number V6s nearly 10:1 for orders and Ford is only building 37% GTs??!? WTH is wrong with this picture?!?!
OMG...GTs out number V6s nearly 10:1 for orders and Ford is only building 37% GTs??!? WTH is wrong with this picture?!?!
[/b][/quote]
Looks more and more like I'll be getting that Mazda 6 Mark.
4/6/05, 07:40 PM
#51
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
So, did you ever test drive the V6? Especially the manual 5 speed?
No? I didn't think so. How do you know if you'll like it if you don't test drive it?
No? I didn't think so. How do you know if you'll like it if you don't test drive it?
Originally posted by Sam80266@April 6, 2005, 5:07 PM
I'm not really surprized by this. But, if you guys aren't willing to wait, then maybe you should take Ford's advice?
If customers are interested in a GT and are not willing to wait, be sure to promote the V6. They will be surprised by the improved performance and appearance of the V6, and find that it has much of the excitement they're looking for in a GT—at a lower price. (Please note that V6 orders must be contained within your dealership's allocation.)
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. Try it maybe you'll like it?
First 2 car lots I checked out tried this. I think its BS. They tried so hard to sell me a V-6 I got verylittle to NO information on the GT. Then they think they can just jack up the price on the GT if thats what I really wanted. 2 car lots I will never go back to.
I did find some where to order a GT at msrp will the order be filled for 05 I doubt it on the other hand they had several v-6 cars on the lot that they did not try to push off on me and I can respect that. I dont like it that they direct to try and push the v-6 . Tell the customers they have to wait but dont give them somthing they dont want.
I'm not really surprized by this. But, if you guys aren't willing to wait, then maybe you should take Ford's advice?
If customers are interested in a GT and are not willing to wait, be sure to promote the V6. They will be surprised by the improved performance and appearance of the V6, and find that it has much of the excitement they're looking for in a GT—at a lower price. (Please note that V6 orders must be contained within your dealership's allocation.)
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. Try it maybe you'll like it?
First 2 car lots I checked out tried this. I think its BS. They tried so hard to sell me a V-6 I got verylittle to NO information on the GT. Then they think they can just jack up the price on the GT if thats what I really wanted. 2 car lots I will never go back to.
I did find some where to order a GT at msrp will the order be filled for 05 I doubt it on the other hand they had several v-6 cars on the lot that they did not try to push off on me and I can respect that. I dont like it that they direct to try and push the v-6 . Tell the customers they have to wait but dont give them somthing they dont want.
4/6/05, 07:42 PM
#52
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Originally posted by lodom@April 6, 2005, 9:59 AM
I think they should be price protected too. This is bad PR for Ford, but they really don't care. They never have.
I think they should be price protected too. This is bad PR for Ford, but they really don't care. They never have.
4/6/05, 08:01 PM
#53
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by V10@April 6, 2005, 6:43 PM
I cannot agree with you on this. Ford has their collective heads up their collective rear ends on this.
1. Ford really under-estimated the total demand for the 05 Mustang and especially the GT. At one of the 05 previews I tried to tell the Ford manager that was present that Ford would easily sell 250,000 05 Stangs in the US. He told me "No way, not in this market". To which I said "open your eyes, look how many people are here to see the 05 prototype on display. When was the last time you had hundreds of people coming to a car dealer on a weekday night just to catch a glimpse of a new model?"
2. Yes, historical sales have been 70% V6 and 30% V8, but V6 sales were proped up by HUGE sales to rental companies. Up front Ford said that they were going to cut sales to rental companies. Ford obviously didn't belive their own BS. If Ford was serious about cutting rental sales, they should have looked at the historical retail V6 vs GT mix, which is close to 50% - 50% and that's what Ford should have planned for from the beginning, 50% V8s. :angry: :angry: :angry:
3. With other new models over the past few years (including the F-150) Ford totally underestimated the demand for options, such as interior upgrades. Can anyone say IUP? Again Ford is confusing rental & fleet orders with what retail customers want. You can't cut fleet sales without rebalancing the option mix to reflect what retail customers (NOT FLEET) want! :bang:
:bang: :bang:
This screw up in the marketing department is causing Ford millions of dollars in lost profit and ill will to retail custoemers which will further negatively effect the bottom line.
I cannot agree with you on this. Ford has their collective heads up their collective rear ends on this.
1. Ford really under-estimated the total demand for the 05 Mustang and especially the GT. At one of the 05 previews I tried to tell the Ford manager that was present that Ford would easily sell 250,000 05 Stangs in the US. He told me "No way, not in this market". To which I said "open your eyes, look how many people are here to see the 05 prototype on display. When was the last time you had hundreds of people coming to a car dealer on a weekday night just to catch a glimpse of a new model?"
2. Yes, historical sales have been 70% V6 and 30% V8, but V6 sales were proped up by HUGE sales to rental companies. Up front Ford said that they were going to cut sales to rental companies. Ford obviously didn't belive their own BS. If Ford was serious about cutting rental sales, they should have looked at the historical retail V6 vs GT mix, which is close to 50% - 50% and that's what Ford should have planned for from the beginning, 50% V8s. :angry: :angry: :angry:
3. With other new models over the past few years (including the F-150) Ford totally underestimated the demand for options, such as interior upgrades. Can anyone say IUP? Again Ford is confusing rental & fleet orders with what retail customers want. You can't cut fleet sales without rebalancing the option mix to reflect what retail customers (NOT FLEET) want! :bang:
:bang: :bang:
This screw up in the marketing department is causing Ford millions of dollars in lost profit and ill will to retail custoemers which will further negatively effect the bottom line.
T-bird?...no
Beetle....pretty good at first and then it cooled down
SSR?......BIG NO!
Prowler.....another no
PT Cruiser....like the Beetle, great at first but sales fell off
I have no doubt in mind that there were some very nervous people at Ford regarding the '05. Given the history of past Mustang sales, the recent failings of retro cars, and the financial situation within Ford, I can see clearly why they went conservative on the estimates. Considering that they were able to up production to 192,000, they obviously had some hopes that it would sell but there was no way they could predict how well it would do.
They also no reason to believe the V6/V8 ratio would be any different, given past history as well. Like I said before, it's easy to trash Ford now that we know how well it's selling.
4/6/05, 08:02 PM
#54
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by kcrw898+April 6, 2005, 7:42 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kcrw898 @ April 6, 2005, 7:42 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>
They're only building 37% because they only have parts to build at that ratio. The letter states they are working with the suppliers to ramp up production. From what I can Ford is doing what they can the fill the orders but production can only be ramped up so fast. That's why they have the disclaimer about unfilled orders being moved to 2006MY.
Originally posted by TomServo92@April 6, 2005, 9:24 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-GhostTX
<!--QuoteBegin-GhostTX
@April 6, 2005, 8:11 AM
OMG...GTs out number V6s nearly 10:1 for orders and Ford is only building 37% GTs??!? WTH is wrong with this picture?!?!
OMG...GTs out number V6s nearly 10:1 for orders and Ford is only building 37% GTs??!? WTH is wrong with this picture?!?!
They're only building 37% because they only have parts to build at that ratio. The letter states they are working with the suppliers to ramp up production. From what I can Ford is doing what they can the fill the orders but production can only be ramped up so fast. That's why they have the disclaimer about unfilled orders being moved to 2006MY.
[/b][/quote]
Well, it's a very nice car for what it is. It's far better than any Camry/Accord/Altima for sure.
4/6/05, 08:04 PM
#55
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Yes, I agree. I am sure I will be pleased either way, for different reasons.
Did you see Consumer Reports stopped recommending the Mazda 6 this year? They said reliability has fallen off, B.S. You're right, it's better than any Toyota or Accord and definitely ALtima, my dad has one of those and have had many quality issues. If no word on my Stang by June 1, I'll be getting the Mazda 6
Did you see Consumer Reports stopped recommending the Mazda 6 this year? They said reliability has fallen off, B.S. You're right, it's better than any Toyota or Accord and definitely ALtima, my dad has one of those and have had many quality issues. If no word on my Stang by June 1, I'll be getting the Mazda 6
4/6/05, 08:16 PM
#56
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by kcrw898@April 6, 2005, 8:07 PM
Yes, I agree. I am sure I will be pleased either way, for different reasons.
Did you see Consumer Reports stopped recommending the Mazda 6 this year? They said reliability has fallen off, B.S. You're right, it's better than any Toyota or Accord and definitely ALtima, my dad has one of those and have had many quality issues. If no word on my Stang by June 1, I'll be getting the Mazda 6
Yes, I agree. I am sure I will be pleased either way, for different reasons.
Did you see Consumer Reports stopped recommending the Mazda 6 this year? They said reliability has fallen off, B.S. You're right, it's better than any Toyota or Accord and definitely ALtima, my dad has one of those and have had many quality issues. If no word on my Stang by June 1, I'll be getting the Mazda 6
Ok, back on topic.....
4/6/05, 09:24 PM
#58
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From previous comments, it looks like most, if not all the "whys" have been covered about how Ford got to this point. Whether its marketing, production capacity, CAFE standards, etc. Personally speaking, I would like to think that if a buyer ordered their car by a certain date, price protection or at a minimum, first priorty if they want an 06 would make sense. Having said that- I don't think its going to happen.
4/6/05, 09:39 PM
#59
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I hope to get a 05 - but when I ordered I thought this could happen. Hey - it is what it is - buying a new hope now anyway, so not the worse thing in the world if I get a 06' (Although I WANT MY 05 !@#$%)
4/6/05, 10:02 PM
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I dropped by the dealership on the way home and showed my salesman a printout of this letter. Perhaps not surprisingly, he hadn't seen it before. He asked to keep a copy of it, and remarked that he could see why I was concerned. But of course, the managers had gone home for the day and there was no one there who could speak to the issue, or even give me an order number.
It always amuses me when we are better informed than the retailers are. I understand that official channels are clogged and management often keeps you in the dark, but can't a salesman afford an Internet connection?
I appreciate the sentiment, but I currently drive a '98 GT. I don't have much use for a 200 HP V6.
<!--QuoteBegin-PACETTR
We got the same memo (Southwest Region). We don't currently have any sold orders. Who wants an 05?[/quote] If you can get me a mineral grey GT coupe with a black/red interior, give me a hoot.
It always amuses me when we are better informed than the retailers are. I understand that official channels are clogged and management often keeps you in the dark, but can't a salesman afford an Internet connection?
Originally posted by Sam80266+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sam80266)</div><div class='quotemain'>At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. [/b]
I appreciate the sentiment, but I currently drive a '98 GT. I don't have much use for a 200 HP V6.
<!--QuoteBegin-PACETTR
We got the same memo (Southwest Region). We don't currently have any sold orders. Who wants an 05?[/quote] If you can get me a mineral grey GT coupe with a black/red interior, give me a hoot.