Unfilled '05 Orders Carried Over to '06
4/6/05, 10:02 AM
#21
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Originally posted by Hellcat6@April 6, 2005, 9:52 AM
Any major manufacturing operation will have a built in ability to surge, to increase production to maximum capacity. Ford is telling us that they have already done that. It would take a major muscle movement for a dramatic change and Ford is not going to damage the bottom line to crank out low profit cars in exchange for high profit trucks. Any reason to expect that this situation will be vastly improved in 06? Maybe not.
The message says that "some retail orders may not be built as 2005MY vehicles". It does not say that the rest of the orders will automaticly convert to orders for the 06 with no loss of your place in line. In fact the "no price protection" comment leaves me to believe that existing orders not filled get dumped and the entire process starts over. Not good news for those waiting months already. Better be standing there to reorder the day they start taking orders for the 06. Ford is going to lose customers over this.
Any major manufacturing operation will have a built in ability to surge, to increase production to maximum capacity. Ford is telling us that they have already done that. It would take a major muscle movement for a dramatic change and Ford is not going to damage the bottom line to crank out low profit cars in exchange for high profit trucks. Any reason to expect that this situation will be vastly improved in 06? Maybe not.
The message says that "some retail orders may not be built as 2005MY vehicles". It does not say that the rest of the orders will automaticly convert to orders for the 06 with no loss of your place in line. In fact the "no price protection" comment leaves me to believe that existing orders not filled get dumped and the entire process starts over. Not good news for those waiting months already. Better be standing there to reorder the day they start taking orders for the 06. Ford is going to lose customers over this.
4/6/05, 10:03 AM
#22
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Originally posted by Hellcat6@April 6, 2005, 7:52 AM
Any major manufacturing operation will have a built in ability to surge, to increase production to maximum capacity. Ford is telling us that they have already done that. It would take a major muscle movement for a dramatic change and Ford is not going to damage the bottom line to crank out low profit cars in exchange for high profit trucks. Any reason to expect that this situation will be vastly improved in 06? Maybe not.
The message says that "some retail orders may not be built as 2005MY vehicles". It does not say that the rest of the orders will automaticly convert to orders for the 06 with no loss of your place in line. In fact the "no price protection" comment leaves me to believe that existing orders not filled get dumped and the entire process starts over. Not good news for those waiting months already. Better be standing there to reorder the day they start taking orders for the 06. Ford is going to lose customers over this.
Any major manufacturing operation will have a built in ability to surge, to increase production to maximum capacity. Ford is telling us that they have already done that. It would take a major muscle movement for a dramatic change and Ford is not going to damage the bottom line to crank out low profit cars in exchange for high profit trucks. Any reason to expect that this situation will be vastly improved in 06? Maybe not.
The message says that "some retail orders may not be built as 2005MY vehicles". It does not say that the rest of the orders will automaticly convert to orders for the 06 with no loss of your place in line. In fact the "no price protection" comment leaves me to believe that existing orders not filled get dumped and the entire process starts over. Not good news for those waiting months already. Better be standing there to reorder the day they start taking orders for the 06. Ford is going to lose customers over this.
It's a great car, and there were an awful lot of people that set on the fence with should I/shouldn't I place an order, and then it got them in the logjam. 
I think if people up and back away from something they want, then it's just a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. :notnice: If Ford loses any customers, there will always be another one to take their place.......since the bottom line is that this car is a Homerun. You can't pre-speculate the popularity of a new platform, and who wants to be sitting on an over production, and then having to give rebates and incentives to get rid of the inventory. After all, it is a Business......
4/6/05, 10:24 AM
#23
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Kevin,
I don't disagree with what you say but there are many folks that have other factors also driving their decisions. Sure, some got themselves into this mess by waiting too long. Others needed to raise money, pay off another loan first, get married, have babies etc. Not everyone can afford to wait 3 months or more. Not eveyone is in the position to plan that far ahead (luckily, I was). It's those people for various reasons that will become angry or will just have to pick up something else instead. But like you said, "If Ford loses any customers, there will always be another one to take their place". Sad but true.
I don't disagree with what you say but there are many folks that have other factors also driving their decisions. Sure, some got themselves into this mess by waiting too long. Others needed to raise money, pay off another loan first, get married, have babies etc. Not everyone can afford to wait 3 months or more. Not eveyone is in the position to plan that far ahead (luckily, I was). It's those people for various reasons that will become angry or will just have to pick up something else instead. But like you said, "If Ford loses any customers, there will always be another one to take their place". Sad but true.
4/6/05, 10:38 AM
#24
Shelby GT500 Member
I'm sorry, but if Ford dropped the ball on failing to plan for the demand, there should be price protection for all orders in que that get switched to 2006MY. There is, after all, price protection within the 2005MY year....so why shouldn't it apply across to the next model year if they can't build it now?
Even retailers give you the same price on the next gen unit if you order an "old" one that gets replaced.
Even retailers give you the same price on the next gen unit if you order an "old" one that gets replaced.
4/6/05, 10:46 AM
#25
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Any confirmed word on the changes for '06?
How are you supposed to carry an order over if the colors, options and even price changes?
If they are saying no price protection, that better not mean they are planning are a steep price increase without the features to support it.
How are you supposed to carry an order over if the colors, options and even price changes?
If they are saying no price protection, that better not mean they are planning are a steep price increase without the features to support it.
4/6/05, 10:51 AM
#26
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I am intrested in that info, too Rampant. I am more than happy to get an 06', but I really would like to know what options I have for that model year. I sure as heck want to know what Colorado Red and Vista Blue are going to look like.........
4/6/05, 10:59 AM
#27
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Originally posted by TomServo92@April 6, 2005, 9:59 AM
You keep talking about a contingency plan. Care to elaborate? What could Ford do as a contigency plan other than pay for additional production capacity that, looking from the 2002-2004 planning timeframe, may or may not have been necessary.
You keep talking about a contingency plan. Care to elaborate? What could Ford do as a contigency plan other than pay for additional production capacity that, looking from the 2002-2004 planning timeframe, may or may not have been necessary.
I don't know, maybe like someone else stated, have another production line that could have (or with some modifications) been tooled to produce the Mustang. At least develop the plan or look at some options for additional production capacity. Ford may be doing this now, but I think its too late.
This Mustang is supposed to be "helping" Ford get back to selling more cars, not just the Mustang, but others in their line as well. They sell plenty of F150s. A way to get people excited about Ford cars - how about making sure there are plenty to go around to generate a "buzz" and get people on the lots. I know there is a buzz about the Mustang, but I think if there were more of them around (have seen 5 here in Cincy) Ford might have accomplished their goal of getting people on the lots and looking at the other cars as well.
I'm not saying it is easy to ramp up production, I'm just saying that I think Ford should have been better prepared if demand was more than past years. Its like people said, how could you not expect it to be greater than the last couple years' GT demand, that is a nice car, but nothing like an 05 GT.
I just think Ford dropped the ball here on their estimates and ability to meet greater demand. All in all, I think they will lose customers here and the fact that there is no price protection is bull I think. Now people are going to wait 4 months, not get an 05 and then have to start over again with an 06, at a higher price. IF you guys think they won't lose sales, you're crazy.
4/6/05, 11:23 AM
#28
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Guys and gals one otyher thing to factor in that we havent really talked about it raw material availability. China is stinking it up an an alarming rate. They are taking all the plastic and metal we will seel them, as well as oil, and that is a major reason we are all getting raped on materials, oil, and gas. Raw material plants are at or near capacity on refining oil, making plastics resin and producing metals. I spoke with my rep today who dropped by from my aluminum supplier and we talked about this at length. They are a large distributor of metals and the aluminum capacity in the US is crap right now. There are no plans to bring on more capacity as the mills love the higher profits and even if someone like ALCOA decided to build a new plant we are talking 5 or more years once they start. Same thing is happening in plastics. Why would they want to add capacity when they can finally control prices and keep profits high??! I know its BS but there is a word for it..."Capatilism"....it stinks sometimes.
4/6/05, 11:36 AM
#29
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The reson they will not price protect from 05 to 06 is that they do not want dealers to game the system. Steel, plastic, copper, and everything else has been goin up pretty fast. Their is no way that the price on these cars will stay flat when all of the costs go up. Ford knows this, the dealers know this. If Ford price protected the orders from 05 and filled them with 06 cars, every dealer would order as many cars as they could to beat the price increase.
The dealers know how many cars they can get. When they take orders for cars that they are not going to get, they are just trying to take customers out of the market. The dealer knows upfront that you may not get your car in a reasonable time. They are hoping to lay the blame off on Ford and to keep you on the hook till you settle for what they can get, when they can get it.
The allocation system is painful for consumers because there is no way to know in advance what the dealer is able to get. The good dealers (Five Star Ford in Scottsdale) will tell you upfront how many cars they have still unallocated. (two for 05 as of yesterday). And they have a loaded 5 speed torch red GT Convertible in stock that can be bought at about $3500 over MSRP.
If you have an order that is CU it is time to turn up the heat. You need to find out if the dealer has any allocation left.
The dealers know how many cars they can get. When they take orders for cars that they are not going to get, they are just trying to take customers out of the market. The dealer knows upfront that you may not get your car in a reasonable time. They are hoping to lay the blame off on Ford and to keep you on the hook till you settle for what they can get, when they can get it.
The allocation system is painful for consumers because there is no way to know in advance what the dealer is able to get. The good dealers (Five Star Ford in Scottsdale) will tell you upfront how many cars they have still unallocated. (two for 05 as of yesterday). And they have a loaded 5 speed torch red GT Convertible in stock that can be bought at about $3500 over MSRP.
If you have an order that is CU it is time to turn up the heat. You need to find out if the dealer has any allocation left.
4/6/05, 11:38 AM
#30
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I agree that it is the fault of the market research people. How could they not know that with a vastly superior car more enthusiasts would want one? The 2004 did not have the HP or the handling to make ME want one, and I have loved Mustangs since I was 12. With the new one I put an order in as soon as I had the money. It is a case of marketing people not understanding CAR people.
4/6/05, 11:44 AM
#31
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Originally posted by Stadifer@April 6, 2005, 10:08 AM
I gotta defend Ford a little bit here. First off historically it has been the V6 sales that has carried the Mustang (roughly 70%+ EVERY year for a long time). Why would you suddenly shift production when your past numbers clearly indicate that the V6 is the bigger seller? The only reason why GT's are in such high demand is because this is the first year of an amazingly succesful re-design of America's pony car. So in turn the major Mustang fans said "I want that!" so the first year is expected to see a surge in GT sales. Next year or the year following it is likely that sales once again shift towards the V6.
Should Ford had expected this change? Perhaps, but the numbers clearly showed that the V6 is the top seller.
I gotta defend Ford a little bit here. First off historically it has been the V6 sales that has carried the Mustang (roughly 70%+ EVERY year for a long time). Why would you suddenly shift production when your past numbers clearly indicate that the V6 is the bigger seller? The only reason why GT's are in such high demand is because this is the first year of an amazingly succesful re-design of America's pony car. So in turn the major Mustang fans said "I want that!" so the first year is expected to see a surge in GT sales. Next year or the year following it is likely that sales once again shift towards the V6.
Should Ford had expected this change? Perhaps, but the numbers clearly showed that the V6 is the top seller.
My own theory includes a couple of reasons:
(1) the '05 is a ground-breaking car. It's got the retro look, and the performance is REALLY a leap forward compared to the previous year. The '94 and '99 models were just evolutionary change in comparison.
(2) there is no more Camaro/Firebird as competition to take away sales. For me, there is really no alternative to the Mustang GT. The closest alternative (in the price range) is probably the Mustang V6. B)
4/6/05, 12:08 PM
#32
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by moc1976+April 6, 2005, 11:02 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moc1976 @ April 6, 2005, 11:02 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-TomServo92@April 6, 2005, 9:59 AM
You keep talking about a contingency plan. Care to elaborate? What could Ford do as a contigency plan other than pay for additional production capacity that, looking from the 2002-2004 planning timeframe, may or may not have been necessary.
You keep talking about a contingency plan. Care to elaborate? What could Ford do as a contigency plan other than pay for additional production capacity that, looking from the 2002-2004 planning timeframe, may or may not have been necessary.
[/b][/quote]Exactly. And given the information they had 2-3 years ago (when the production planning was started), they had no way of knowing if the new retro-themed Mustang would be a hit or fall flat on it's face. It's really easy to point fingers at the marketing group knowing what we know now.
I don't know, maybe like someone else stated, have another production line that could have (or with some modifications) been tooled to produce the Mustang. At least develop the plan or look at some options for additional production capacity. Ford may be doing this now, but I think its too late.
This Mustang is supposed to be "helping" Ford get back to selling more cars, not just the Mustang, but others in their line as well. They sell plenty of F150s. A way to get people excited about Ford cars - how about making sure there are plenty to go around to generate a "buzz" and get people on the lots. I know there is a buzz about the Mustang, but I think if there were more of them around (have seen 5 here in Cincy) Ford might have accomplished their goal of getting people on the lots and looking at the other cars as well.
I'm not saying it is easy to ramp up production, I'm just saying that I think Ford should have been better prepared if demand was more than past years. Its like people said, how could you not expect it to be greater than the last couple years' GT demand, that is a nice car, but nothing like an 05 GT.
I just think Ford dropped the ball here on their estimates and ability to meet greater demand. All in all, I think they will lose customers here and the fact that there is no price protection is bull I think. Now people are going to wait 4 months, not get an 05 and then have to start over again with an 06, at a higher price. IF you guys think they won't lose sales, you're crazy.
I'm not saying it is easy to ramp up production, I'm just saying that I think Ford should have been better prepared if demand was more than past years. Its like people said, how could you not expect it to be greater than the last couple years' GT demand, that is a nice car, but nothing like an 05 GT.
I just think Ford dropped the ball here on their estimates and ability to meet greater demand. All in all, I think they will lose customers here and the fact that there is no price protection is bull I think. Now people are going to wait 4 months, not get an 05 and then have to start over again with an 06, at a higher price. IF you guys think they won't lose sales, you're crazy.
I do agree that Ford should offer price protection on any '05 orders that have to carried over to '06MY however.
4/6/05, 12:16 PM
#34
Honestly I don't blame Ford as much as government regulations. I knew years ago that CAFE was gonna screw the consumer. I think the biggest problem is that Ford is not willing to move over CAFE exemption vehicles from trucks and SUVs to the Mustang. I don't personally blame them either. They DO sell WAY more trucks and SUVs than Mustangs at higher markup.
I personally believe that if Ford didn't have to worry about how many CAFE exemptions they had that they would be more willing to meet '05 demand.
I personally believe that if Ford didn't have to worry about how many CAFE exemptions they had that they would be more willing to meet '05 demand.
4/6/05, 12:40 PM
#35
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Originally posted by Xader Vartec@April 6, 2005, 7:45 AM
My 2cents:
I would normally prefer an '06 this late in the year. HOWEVER, the "Sonic Blue" color is my favorite color of all time. Well, the '06s don't have Sonic Blue. Sooooooooo, I would like an '05 because I can get the Sonic Blue.
BTW, anyone have a pic of a swatch with the new blue color for 06?
My 2cents:
I would normally prefer an '06 this late in the year. HOWEVER, the "Sonic Blue" color is my favorite color of all time. Well, the '06s don't have Sonic Blue. Sooooooooo, I would like an '05 because I can get the Sonic Blue.
BTW, anyone have a pic of a swatch with the new blue color for 06?
I just heard about this memo from my salesguy. I orderd my GT on March 25th and I called today to check the status and he said that I probably won't get an 05. I'm gonna try another dealer and see what they say.
4/6/05, 01:03 PM
#36
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
I'm not really surprized by this. But, if you guys aren't willing to wait, then maybe you should take Ford's advice? 
If customers are interested in a GT and are not willing to wait, be sure to promote the V6. They will be surprised by the improved performance and appearance of the V6, and find that it has much of the excitement they're looking for in a GT—at a lower price. (Please note that V6 orders must be contained within your dealership's allocation.)
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. Try it maybe you'll like it?
If customers are interested in a GT and are not willing to wait, be sure to promote the V6. They will be surprised by the improved performance and appearance of the V6, and find that it has much of the excitement they're looking for in a GT—at a lower price. (Please note that V6 orders must be contained within your dealership's allocation.)
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. Try it maybe you'll like it?
4/6/05, 01:09 PM
#38
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Originally posted by Falchion@April 6, 2005, 1:06 PM
I'm not really surprized by this. But, if you guys aren't willing to wait, then maybe you should take Ford's advice?
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. Try it maybe you'll like it?
I'm not really surprized by this. But, if you guys aren't willing to wait, then maybe you should take Ford's advice?
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample. Try it maybe you'll like it?
Guess there's no way for Ford to fix the problem, so they just avoid it, like they did with the global open/close windows. :notnice:
4/6/05, 01:26 PM
#40
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Originally posted by Hellcat6@April 6, 2005, 9:52 AM
The message says that "some retail orders may not be built as 2005MY vehicles". It does not say that the rest of the orders will automaticly convert to orders for the 06 with no loss of your place in line. In fact the "no price protection" comment leaves me to believe that existing orders not filled get dumped and the entire process starts over. Not good news for those waiting months already. Better be standing there to reorder the day they start taking orders for the 06. Ford is going to lose customers over this.
The message says that "some retail orders may not be built as 2005MY vehicles". It does not say that the rest of the orders will automaticly convert to orders for the 06 with no loss of your place in line. In fact the "no price protection" comment leaves me to believe that existing orders not filled get dumped and the entire process starts over. Not good news for those waiting months already. Better be standing there to reorder the day they start taking orders for the 06. Ford is going to lose customers over this.
And no, he said there would be no price protection, nor X-plan protection going from '05 to '06. You would be starting over again and going by their word you would be entered as soon as the banks open
He said the price is definitly going to go up on '06's, he did not know how much though.
And, as another downer, he said they are not accepting X-plan anymore this year and most likely will not accept it next year as well. He said his boss told him they just weren't making enough money on this car and needed to be like all the other dealers out there :notnice:
He said that they still had enough allocation to get my order built this year, there are 5 orders ahead of me at this time. As a side note, I did verify that my price is protected, as long as it gets built this year. The price has only gone up once since I ordered, but you never know.