You are just an order taker to most of the people here on this forum. Most of us here already know exactly what we want. All of your "excitement" does nothing for us.

And your statement "would you take 2500 under market value for the car you have now"... doesn't make sense because what we are saying is the MARKET VALUE is the "2500 UNDER MSRP" or whatever discount off MSRP...

To try and make it clearer...Market VALUE is determined by what people are willing to pay for a product. It is NOT MSRP... If we average out what everyone pays for their mustang that is what market value is.

 

oh boy. The market value refference is to the established dollar amount the car heralds at its trade in price. Basically the 'sticker' price for wholesale. I don't plan or try to sell a single mustang from being on this forum, it was never my goal, nor SVTP where I have over 6000 posts either. I get PM's saying "how far a drive is Va from (wherever)" all the time(on many products before the 05 on other sites). I just give them private advice on what to try at dealers or give them oppinions on what they have been told. Not just putting little 'sales guyish' jabs on threads like this to keep it interesting. Hardly any of these things I say here reflect how I sell a car in the 'real world'. Its just for fun.

 

It still seems counterintuitive to me, that a dealer would maximize their short term profits at the cost of long term loyalty and service.

But, it does not have to be all or nothing... MSRP vs. invoice. I DO think the dealer should capitalize on a hot car. (I might be in the minority, here) After all, it is America. The dealers certainly have had dogs to deal with, over the years. Consequently, early adopters might have to pay to play.

However, "Capitalize" does not mean the dealer should take full advantage of a short term and emotional purchase. Why make an early adopter feel like an idiot, because they like a Ford product. The dealer wins the battle, and almost guarantees the loss of the war.

Find a middle ground, and the customer does not feel compelled to go elsewhere for a next purchase, for service, for accessories, and mods.

That is the great thing about this forum, it will serve to equalize the playing field by being able to out those dealers who do not find a middle ground. If I pay $1,000 over invoice, or $1,000 under MSRP, I might not get the absolute best deal we are seeing in the forum; but at least I would be shown some consideration.

I cannot imagine facing a customer of mine to say "you know what, you have been a good and valuable customer for 5 years; but I had a bit of good fortune - - I have a great product you want, so now I am going to charge you twice the profit i normally would". As GHW senior /Dana Carvey said "wouldn't be prudent" it would be "bad, bad".

You can talk about market value, but I don't think the public views MSRP as market.

Kevin, you get calls from this forum, because you know the car and have interest in it. I think that should be rewarded. You happen to spend effort at your profession. I do not think it is appropriate to say a salesperson is an order taker, simply because the customer knows the product, too. However, there are alot of order takers out there.

 

Kevin isn't totally wrong. With certain car makes, they DO NOT DISCOUNT off sticker. If anyone wanted a Mini Cooper S, you pay MSRP, a Tc, MSRP. I have a friend who sells Toyotas, and every Sienna is at MSRP, every Solara vert is MSRP, + they add money to MSRP for every Prius they sell. Every "New Car" that is a new style is always a hot item. The TBird fiasco is a perfect example of that, as most dealers added to the MSRP of the car. My store we didn't do that but others did. This is always going to occur with a hot new product.
I understand and believe some salespeople don't know anything about the car, and just are "oder takers" your qoute, but I have been selling for 8 years, am 28 years old, same location, and I know more about the cars we get in than anyone in the building. I have the GM and service manager, sales manager come to me, and ask me questions on something, that they may not know, but they know that I have the info. I pride myself on my product knowledge. I go to every new car preview demonstration I can, I read all the books, and read and study all the order quides.
I admit I will have to look at an order quide for a Ranger, or F150, as there are hundreds of combinations of the truck. But don't say that all salespeople are "order takers". I am the person here that is the most excited about the new 500, Freestyle, upcoming Fusion, Mustang, and especially the Ford GT, as we are getting one of these too. But his post about the value of cars decreasing is true because of rebates and discounts on the new ones. This is always going to decrease a value of the trade as you have to look at what you can get a new version for using rebates and discounts, etc.
I know most dealers are selling the Mustangs for more that $500 over. I can't discount any Mustangs I sell, no matter who it is to. Maybe in 4 months once supply catches up with demand, then discounts will start. My store will however accept A/Z/D, and X-Plan. We look at this as future business down the road. Nothing wrong with this. I think any dealer that doesn't order Mustangs under an A-Plan or X-plan, will lose more that just the customer. Word of mouth will let people know that they don't want to deal and help people out. I just wanted to offer my 2 cents, and not go "gung-ho" like others.

 

I agree with both arguments here. What are all the A/Z/D and X plans for? I tend to believe those discounts are set in place for those they apply too. I wouldn't expect to get that discount if a particular plan didn't apply to me. I would like it, but am realistic. I am a salesman and I offer deals here and there. I would be out of a job and the company or my distributors would be out of business if selling at "invoice." What the heck, I suppose I could get rid of all my distributors and sell direct, even though that's not what the industry is doing. As a manufacturer, I expect my distributors to make money. My distributors have their "big customers" that they make little on, but do so to 1. have their business 2. turn over product. In the real business world, you have to make money to stay in business. I know this all sounds ridiculous and obvious, but it seems that's not obvious here. We have a new product coming out this year. We will not be taking advantage of people (pricing), but we are going to make fair money on the product because it's hot. Once we get the production up and cost down, the price will move down a bit. That will take about 1-2 years for that to happen. I guess what I'm saying is, let's be a bit more realistic. If you already have a deal in writing, you're in a good position. If not, bite the bullitt or wait it out. I'm paying $500 less than MSRP, in writing, the day pricing was available.

 

:again:

God forbid anyone purchase an American car without 5k worth of rebates.

[sarcasm] I'm such a smart consumer because I'm unwilling to pay an extra 1k for something that will be worth half it's value by the first day I get it home? OooOoohhhh. Look at me. [sarcasm]

 

That vehicles are worth more when brand new on the market is not giving up on long-term thinking. Its just inconvienient for some who want the vehicle but are still used to Ford giveaways. The price of a car has little to do with loyalty. The way the customer is treated is everything. Customer loyalty is not exactly what it used to be, they will walk on you or murder a survey in a second. When you go through the CSI reports for the store, price is rarely what determines a good satisfaction score. Do you really think that a person who buys the new Mustang at MSRP is going to be disatisfied with the product or its price? Its not like they are going to be selling for $5000 over like PT cruisers were.

 

You know what Ford is losing, and what Ford will gain, and what Ford plans to do, how much more money Ford will make etc.......doesn't matter to me in the long run.

Ford doesn't ask me how I am affording the increase in gas, why hospitalization has gone up in my salary, how college tuition is increasing 14% per year (I have two in college now) and so on....

In simple words, I want my new 05 GT at a good price, and what happens in the future, no one knows.

 

For a short period of time I sold Fords at a store in my small town. No volume+ no walk in traffic= financial disaster (for me) so I don't do that any more. A good friend of mine, who now works at the same place I do, sold Toyotas for 13 years at a store in central California.

His story is that the "better" deal the customer got, the more dissatisfied they were, and the closer to MSRP they paid, the happier they were. Go figure.

Look. Over the life of a car or the ownership period, whichever comes first first, what does a few hundred bucks matter in the price of a car? Say you spend 25K on a car you like and want and then find out that somebody else saved $250 more than you did. So what. That's 1%, folks. BFD.

I don't hear anybody ranting about the 6% realtors normally charge when selling a house. Back in the days of $30K houses that was $1800. Today it runs 10 times that for the same effort so why begrudge a salesman a little commission on a car?

Car dealers may have brought it upon themselves and the web has certainly changed the way we buy automobiles, but in the long run it comes down, as always, to customer satisfaction. Find a good salesman, especially from this site, get a reasonable deal, leave something on the table for him, and drive home happy. In the long run, it's good for all of us.

 

It is a question of the spread. A $250 difference should not cause heartache. If it does, the buyer is probably overextended, anyway. But, you hate to have a $2,000 difference. And, that is what some buyers seem to have lined up vs. paying MSRP.


Absolutely.

 

An product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I would haggle with the electrical company if I could. For most people trying to purchase this car, there is gonna be very little haggling....at 1st anyway.

 

I’m not anti-salesman or anti-car-companies or even anti-profit. But I thought the ‘S’ in MSRP meant “Suggested�. And yes, when I sell a car on the street that I want $8k from, I put a $9999 asking price on it to start. Why? So I can “knock off� $1999 and give the buyer a “good deal�. The buyer thinks I came down in price, I think I got the $8k I really wanted. It’s a gimmick but I play the gimmick. If someone hands me the $9999, what a deal I made, but I don’t expect anyone to meet my asking price. Dealers have always come down from MSRP - in general. How much is up to the negotiating skills and strength of position of the buyer.

I’m not against those who pay MSRP now to get a hot car with a waiting list. I won’t get one now because I won’t pay MSRP. It’s all about tradeoffs. By the time the ’06 model comes out, maybe there will be deals on the ‘05. It just remains to see when demand lets up for any dealing to occur.

To me, it’s always been MSRP for those in a weak position or those to don’t like the “conflict� of dealer vs. buyer negotiations, or, haggle for best pricing for those in strong positions and who will negotiate for a better deal. The hot demand now puts no one in a really strong position. So I’ll wait.

 

And that is exactly what many of us want. I know exactly what mustang I want down to order codes (thanks to this site and others). Some of us don't need to be sold excitement, we just need a web based order form where we can select what we want and use a credit card to put down a small deposit. I'd gladly pay four or five hundred dollars over invoice to completely cut the salesman (as well as the hard sell, haggling, upsell, hidden fees, and unnecessary additions aka dealer applied "undercoating") out of the process and automate the whole thing! I'm sure many salespeople will take offense to that (and I really do appreciate your contribution to this site), but its the reason CarsDirect and similar sites are having some success.

-Mike

 

CarMax is still in business, aren't they? Then I guess there's enough people
who don't mind overpaying for used cars as long as someone does a 101
point inspection of hoses, brakes, cup holders and coin slots.

YOU can't overpay for the Mustang unless you decide to do it. Kevin WILL
get a nice commission when someone buys the only available sonic blue
Mustang GT with the right options in late October - early November.

Think the Ford GT should be sold for Invoice + $600.00?

As one poster said, "The S stands for Suggested in MSRP" and I suggest
that Kevin make a good deal on every deal. Visit Kevin around March of
2006 and go get the Edmunds TMV (True Market Value) or better from
him and then everybody should be happy. If happiness is having the Stang
now and you hope to stop by and take one of only 3 on the lot available
for Invoice +500 then you must be one lucky person. <--No EDIT needed

For more on this subject you should see what the AutoExtremist thinks
about current REBATE/discount pricing. He explains it better than I can.

 

If they planned on making a couple hundred thousand of them every year, yes.

 

I admit, I get a high out of bartering and yes I do it at other retail stores as well. and you know what? I usualy get a discount.
its amazing what people will do for you if you just ask...politely.

My father got a great deal on a 2004 Dodge Dorango simply by asking the sales man "so honestly, how many of these big gas guzzling SUV's are you selling these days? Bet you would love to sell one today."
8000 dollars off and free oil changes.

I agree on the issue of the "hot item" once the hype and the ads slow down I will go in for the kill. I would never consider trying to haggle on a car that is Brand Spanken New. because as soon as I storm out the door, the guy behind me will have his cash in hand more than willing to pay the "MSRP" and then some.

Personally I thing everything is overpriced, from the hot dog vender on the corner to the 900sqf fixerupper home for $500,000.00+
Im tired of people complaining about the price just before they buy it.

this isn't rocket science here, if people refuse to pay $25,000 for a car then the Sellers will have to lower the cost. but being the dumb consumers we are we will continue to get raped and just take it.

I will wait till the 2006 GT comes out then I will march into my dealership and start the cost war on that Black 2005 GT amongst all the other 2005 that were supposed to sell.

I welcome the rebates and the money back incentives,
a little patience can save you thousands.

okay Im done rambling now...(bored at work)

 

I have never bought a new car before due to depreciation as you first crank it up and drive off the lot. This time around, I chose to purchase this 2005 mustang because simply, I want this car. Against my typical logic, I am willing to pay for this car, because I want it. I worked out a fair price with my dealer and am satisfied...because I want it. Supply and Demand. I could save maybe $1000 or $1500 by waiting maybe 6 months to a year. I just don't want too. Everyone has a choice to buy or not buy. No one is making anyone buy anything. Besides the few here, there will be a lot of people paying MSRP + some. If you can work out a deal with your dealer to your liking then great. If not, shop around. If you can't get it for what you want, wait. Just my opinion. I guess I don't understand all the complaining.

 

oh my... i am gettin my violin out for all the poor car salesmen.

next you'll be trying to convince me lawyers arent dirtbags.

 

As an ex-wholesaler I got a kick out of reading this forum. It is all supply and demand. People want a good deal. Wait till the end of the month then go trade. If you are lucky you will be in control of the sale. But I hate to hear people say bad things about dealers and salespeople. They are in a profit business, not a charity. It is different at every dealership, believe me.

Lawyers are dirtbags????

 

I happen to be a lawyer who represents car salesmen. :angry: I find your remark to be close to slander. Oh wait, maybe its libel. Oh darn it I always mix those 2 up :scratch: Oh boy, maybe I should have become a paper weight like my high school counsellor predicted. :bang:

Just kidding. Lighten up guys, we're all here because we have a common interest in this car. Kev and all the other guys (salesmen or not) have been very helpful My personal opinion is that if someone pays msrp or lower, great.
I got a deal on mine because I "know" someone. Conversely I'm one of the people who paid $5000.00 for a Plasma T.V 2 months before they dropped $1500.00 bucks. Do I feel ripped off, no. Do I wish I knew someone in the Plasma TV biz, heck yes. Point being, if you want to pay msrp for a car you love,
who cares what Joe Blow got his for. Life is full of deals, miss one here get one there. PEACE TO ALL FORUM MEMBERS :worship: