KingLurker

We've heard our buyers getting average deals of 500 over invoice w/o plans. What are you salespeople selling them for. Keving Bek, anyothers? Im curious what kind of deals you guys have made with your customers.

OSUstangfan

good question. I personally would buy from any of the dealers on this site if they were remotely close to me, just because of how much they know about the vehicle. In my opinion i think it would be worth the extra cash.

Grantsdale

Please read stickies before posting ... especially the one titled "05 pricing" for a post like this

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=3163

KingLurker

Its different actually. This one is aimed at sellers not buyers. Please dont mess up my topics, and let the big dogs make of this what they want. I am curios along as others. Have they even mentioned any sales? Well we can find out here can't we?

Grantsdale

Well obviously if they are being bought for XXXXX then the dealership is selling them for XXXXX.

As far as your question, kevin hasn't stated anything about selling any 05s yet, and BEK has sold a few, even to forum members. He hasn't discussed price from what I've seen. I can't imagine either of them doing that, it kills any haggling position they would have if anyone wanted to buy.

edit: Sorry for the po'ed slant tonight, my internet cut out, probably cost me 400-500 for the night

Dr Iven

That was po'ed? I thought that was Pleasant Grantsdale.

Grantsdale

I guess I'm getting kinder and gentler then ...

Dr Iven

Have you been watching Lifetime?

kevinb120

Retail for now, they wont let us discount them anyway. I still do not believe the car should be discounted, It completely offers what is advertized on the sticker. Its a deal at MSRP now. Maybe if it was 31k loaded I would think discounting would be in order. You can not buy a Z under sticker around here for 2 years now, I personally think its overpriced by about 4,000. The Tc sells for $2000 over in this area. I'm glad I sold all my Hybrids at sticker and did not mark them up. Ford just announced they are raising production 400% from 4000 to 17,000 for the year. Some people paid $5k over sticker, Id be just as ticked off as the first Mach owners if I had taken delivery already. I bought my Rx7 at sticker and never regretted a dime. Ill say it yet again, if you feel compelled to NEED a discount, you are buying too much car for your budget. People are in a panic that they would pay what, 25 bucks a month more if you financed it.....Thats about .80 per day. I spend over 600 a month on daily lunches, snacks, and smokes alone.


If I was in a Reail situation with a trade though, I'd make sure I got top dollar for it, thats for sure. I'd want trade-in excellent with no prep deductions at least.

68fuelinjected

Nice try, but I wouldn't buy one at sticker. As you well know, Ford has 25,000 of the o4's still on the lot. If my dealer decides not to honor our agreement of $400.00 over invoice, then he can sell my Mineral Gray to someone else. It is not that I NEED a discount, but does Ford and the sales staff NEED to sell at invoice or over. When they have the same amount of 05's sitting on lots, then I will by one. Invoice is in my budget, and I take that statement of yours as an insult. Can you or Ford afford to give me the .80 a day for repeat business, if not I go elsewhere. Maybe the attitude of trying to take advantage of new product Ford has is the reason their sales are down. They tried to do the same thing on my new F150 4X4 (the new style), I told them to keep it and went out of state and bought it for what was $2,000 less here. Since then I have bought one more. If sales are just looking for a one big hit, then they won't be there long. Sorry about the long post, I have bought somewhere around 36 new cars in my lifetime, and kevinb120 statement just got to me.

kevinb120

You dont get paid didly on an invoice sale. If you can not turn a proffit on a new 05 sale, you need to get another job. A salesman that cant sell excitemennt on the new stang is just an order taker, you could replace him with software and do a self-checkout like the grocery store. Its not taking advantage of at all. If you are not negotiating every deal you have at the grocery store, clothing seller, or electronics shop, why are you letting yourself getting 'taken advantage of' there? No offense, but every dealer has a situation where if someone doesnt want it, you have 10 calls to make quickly before another salesperson trumps you. I would not take a chopped deal unless there is no one else interested in the vehcile.

Again, would you take 2500 under market value for the car you have now? No one ever answers that question. Its fine if invoice is your budget, just dont expect one anytime soon. I wouldnt be allowed to do that deal if I wanted to for a while.

If YOU are a salesperson for a living, do you sell the only sonic blue on the lot to make $60 bucks, or do you sell it to make $500?

I am sure you would sell your FX4 for 2 grand under trade-in and take the mini deal, right?

68fuelinjected

Yes I would take 2500 less for the one of the cars I have today, if I was paying floor plan on 500 others sitting in my lot, and knew my dealer holdback was around $750.00. I would be losing a lot more than $2500.00 if I didn't move cars. Ok, enough kevin, anymore conversations like this one can be done one to one. You have your opinion and I have mine, lets leave it at that.

Good luck sellling

kevinb120

BTW I hope everyone knows I am NOT here to sell cars, I usually do salesman posts to throw a little 'tude at you all. Things like invoice and finance information I always just state what it is. But people yelling YOU NEED A SALE YOU stink IF YOU DO NOT SELL EVERY CAR AT INVOICE ITS A SCAM SCAM SCAM is just dumb.

Grantsdale

Same question, would you take $2500 under retail value from someone when you can get someone else to buy it for the same full retail value?

kevinb120

Why work as a salesman to make nothing but minimum proffit? Sure 15 or so of my sales a month are relatively cheap ones, but you would be a fool to give away hot product. Ford dealers have been beaten up for years on car prices for no real reason, while import dealers laugh all the way to the bank. With new products coming out now, why give those away? why? Thats why Toyota has 5 times more money in the bank then Ford right now and could buy the company tomorrow without thinking twice about it. Giving away cars kills the perception of value, thats why Ford is getting out of the rental car business now. Building all those vehicle for no proffit is killing the company, there is no point to offer product with no margin. Its also your resale value as well. Its all relative. If you buy something that is given away at invoice every day like a Taurus, you WILL loose much more then that original discount when you try to sell it three years from now. Save 2k now, loose 5k later. Ford is making the right move by not renting cars and targeting for closer-to-retail sales on thier newer car products. Thats why the price is lower on just about everything this year. F-150, Mustang, 500(option for option with Taururs), Focus, ALL are less expensive then thier predecessors. The 05 Explorers are now less expensive then last year's too, and include the once $700 advance track on every model to boot. They could of raised the price of the stang $1500 easilly and just started the rebates up after about 8 months, business as usual. Ford is trying to un-Nasser itself and work value back into the equation. It cracks me up when someone comes in on a new Expy and wants 10,000 off including monster rebates then freaks out when their 3 year old explorer is worth 40%. They kill thier own resale values. Ford needs to get out of the perception dumps, you just end up paying more for it in the long run. Its a shame when I have a customer call me wanting to trade in an 01 GT vert he owes 16,000 on for a new 05 and its only worth about 10k to a dealer. You can thank heavy rebates and discounts for that. If rebates and heavy discounts disappear from the new products, you may actually be able to outpace resale value vs pay-offs with less then $10,000 down for a change. The problem is Ford needs to wean its customers off of the giveaway mentality. There is more then enough interest for the new vehicles that there is no reason for it, Its about time. No more 'stick a new scoop on it and we're done for the new model!' mentality from them either. One of these days a Ford which outdoes everything in its class will be as "valueable" as a poobox reskined-thrice platform civic with a 1" exhaust pipe.

Karpro

You get over 4% profit between holdback and the blue oval money as well as future service and parts profits, sources of referals additional purchases, etc.. This is how you turn a profit.

I don't negotiate on every purchase I make, but to use your analogy, when I buy my new Nike's I do buy them from the store that sells them for the least amount of money. Each shoe store, clothing store, grocerie store, electronics store, etc sets their own pricing and I watch for the best deal. I can afford to pay $10 a pound for bologna, does that mean I should? That's ridiculous.


I am a salesperson, and have been since 1987. I sell cars at a set price and get paid the same regardless of what you buy. I'd rather sell you one and your neighbor, brother, friend, spouse, etc. one. You can make your $500 on one deal, I'll make my $200 each on ten.

Kevin, please don't take this as a personal attack because it's not. We just have a different view of the business. I try to look at this as a long term, multi-vehicle thing not a one shot deal. I switched to a one price store three years ago and sell more cars (and make more income) than at any time in my career (including many years in management). Maybe we're wrong, but we are the largest Subaru dealer in the U.S., and we've climbed into the top 10 in our region for Ford, so I've got to guess that it works.

Paul

CP94GT

I thought that is what happened when ever you traded a car in!

kevinb120

I hope people dont think I wait around for an UBELIEVALBE sticker for a mustang sale. The average F-series sale makes more money, and outnumbers total car(all models) sales 3 to one easilly here. Not to mention Expys and Explorers and Superduties, oh my You do realize that even the BEST price you may find for a pair of nikes still equates to paying 80 bucks for a 6 dollar cost pair of shoes that doesnt employ one American to make other then corporate.

kevinb120

Market share meaining what a dealer should buy a car from somenoe based on its condition for resale. I.E. trade-in value.

Mellow Yellow

I keep seeing the question "would you take $2500 under market value for your car today?" and I wanted to make one point.

MSRP does not equal market value. Drive your car off the lot, across the street and trade it in, you wont get maybe 70-80% of what you just paid. So asking that question isnt a fair analogy of the situation. New car dealers who sell at invoice or slightly above aren't getting $2500 under "market value".

A more fair question would be, if you were selling your car, would you sell your car today for a 600 dollar profit? I think most would answer yes.