ford4v429

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(OBleedingMe @ March 1, 2006, 6:21 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I did not notice the wear because my last rotation was done by STS while I was in the process of purchasing a new jack (old one failed). Within the last 6k, the wear has become much more evident.

The dealership keeps claiming this is a wheel alignment issue, NOT a factory issue. Wheel alignment issues are only covered for 12k or 12 months. Despite the dealership's claims, the fact remains that Ford left far too little margin of adjustment for proper wheel alignment. The holes in the control arms/struts need to be bored to accomodate elongated bolts to allow for more adjustment margin. Ford is aware of this and even made up a kit to rectify it. This is obviously a factory DESIGN FLAW and has nothing to do with aligning the wheels, but giving the mechanic the ABILITY to align the wheels. I will gladly pay for my wheel alignment, I just don't believe I should have to pay for reboring holes and changing bolts because Ford put the wrong bolts on the control arms/struts. I am asking for prorated tires because the condition created by the improper bolts has caused severe and abnormal undue wear on my tires, drastically shortening their life. I feel I'm being fair, especially after all the aggravation I've been put through.
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If I recall correctly, this is not uncommon, nor is it unique to the mustang. when I put the struts in my mark VII, it had the little 'grind here' dotted line stamped around one hole also- didnt need it after 140k still though.

someone a couple posts up mentioned strut frontends being pretty stout- I gotta kinda disagree on the mustangs design though- car is strong as any, lower control arm is heavy laminated steel, but the basic lower control arm design is 'different'. looks-wise, the reverse 'L' control arm leg lengths appear to me like they would take any chuckhole/curb bumping energy and convert into a severely leveraged tensile pull on the front pivot, and the fat rear bushing would see leveraged compression towards center of car...I'd bet dollars to donuts your wheels tilt outwards at the bottom, and I think over time as bushings get hammered on, this will likely be a mustang trend. the suspension obviously works very well regarding handling, but I do have some concerns about control arm bushing stresses. conventional a arms often had little to no leverage advantage, and were usually front pulling/rear pushing stresses into the seriously heavy engine crossmember. the 'k' member rear bushing mount on the mustang just looks a little light to me- the front will handle cornering loads, but severe braking/potholes are going to really try to shove that rear pivot inward- and theres not a straight crossmember there to support it. I was looking under mine, actually wondering about adapting a strutrod like my old 69's to limit deflection by pulling from front too, but I dunno...If I get into autocrossing or something maybe, as I hear severe braking while cornering can tear up some stuff...

suggestion- i'll try next time I'm out with mine, but have someone videotape, or better yet rig a camera over your tire, do some hard braking fwd/reverse, even at low speed- I bet that wheel moves fore/aft an inch. my mark VII is even worse, due to huge bushing diameters compressing, and the mustang has a huge rear bushing at a leverage disadvantage...as rubber compresses inward, bottom of tire will move outward.

I hope I never bump a curb while parking, as I think that will damage a mustang more than most other cars.

indymustanggt

I am working thru a similar issue. I complained of poor steering/handling at 7000 miles to the dealer - he could find nothing wrong. I had my wheels rotated and road force balanced at 7000 and 12000 miles. At 12000 miles I complained again about the steering problem, and had the strut popping noise TSB work done at that time because they thought that might resolve the issue - it didn't. Last week at 15000 miles I complained about the steering again. The dealer suggested an alignment, which I agreed to pay for as normal maintainence. They aligned it, but initally put an $80 charge on my invoice for grinding the left front strut base so the correct camber could be set - when I questioned it they said it was a mistake and I should not be charged. They had no idea what caused that, and said it could have come from the factory that way.
When I picked the car up Thursday the steering was greatly improved - I could go around curves at speed, it did not require constant steering wheel adjustments, etc. It steered like a new car again.

The problem is it only lasted 2 days. I drove to southern Indiana Saturday and the car steered great until I had to stop and turn around because the road was closed for an accident. I made 2 or 3 sharp turns from a dead stop to get turned around in the middle of the road, and right after that I noticed the steering had gone bad again. It was really noticeable on winding back roads.
In short, I think the alignment is out of wack again. Can alignment go out that easy? I hit no pot holes, and I'm the only one that drives the car.

My plan is to go back to the dealer as soon as it quits raining/snowing and take the service manager for a test drive. He was willing to do that last week before I decided to get an alignment to eliminate that issue as a possible cause. But service mgrs look at you like it's your imagination when you complain of steering problems on a Mustang, unless they drive one for their personal car. This is my 3rd Mustang and they all had steering problems the service manager said he could not detect - a bad intermediate shaft on my 94 and the rubber bushings where the rack attaches to the frame fell out on my 96, but the dealer said they steered fine.
But they have to figure out why it happens. Also there is the abnormal tire wear issue, which I'll get into once they solve the problem.

If anyone else has had a similar problem with bad alignment from the factory or knows what is really causing my steering problems, please let me know.

WarBird69

I have yet to (in person mind you) meet a dealer for ANY automobile faction that is not a greedy *******. Maybe Lexus, BMW, and Lambourgini dealers treat their customers with respect... but the "common man" dealers (Chevy, Ford, Toyota, ect) sure don't.

At least that is my experience. I hope to God when I buy my 07 GT things change for the better and I can add at least ONE dealer to my "cool" list.

OBleedingMe

Glad to know I'm not the only one with this problem, IndyMustangGT. Although I don't have the severe steering problem you have (probably through sheer luck), I still have the out-of-adjustment-range alignment/tire wear issue.

The fact that they didn't charge you for grinding and elongating the bolts furthers my belief that I am being treated unfairly. I have continually and consistently stated that this was a factory defect/mistake. At least your dealer was honest about it.

It's business day three (five normals days) after I talked to that woman in the Executive Office. She told me she would call me back in 2 - 3 business days, so I'm hoping she keeps her word. I'll let you guys know how I do. I've already drafted a letter to the BBB (Better Business Bureau) against Downs Ford and another against Ford. Whether I send them out or not depends on the answer I receive... or if I even receive one. I hope this woman didn't feed me a line of BS just to get me off the phone. That would be very unprofessional and it furthers my inclinations to purchase an '06 Vette as opposed to the twin (2) purchase of '07 Shelbys I was considering.

On a side note, this is all very disheartening. My father is a Ford man (raced for them professionally and was trained by Carroll Shelby at Carroll Shelby's School of High Performance Driving in CA), I'm a Ford man... heck, my girlfriend's family, whom I met at Englishtown Raceway while participating in the Ford Showdown event, are a Ford family. I can't believe how I'm being treated here. The longer I wait, the longer this festers, you know? Everyone's really upset with how this is being handled.

Time will tell. I'll post an update when I find out one way or the other. Here's hoping that Ford comes through...

nynvolt

I hope this gets resolved.

I had my car in for the strut problem, it clanked and clunked but drove straight. They replaced the parts and I could litterally do a dough-nut if I took my hands off the wheel. I had to run to work but called them imeadiately to complain/set an alignment apointment. I go in to get the alignment done and the guy tells me, "your lucky, Ford offers you one free alignment!" I asked him if I had not had that free alignment comming, would they have charged me, even after they did the shoddy work, he replied "yes". I replied "but you guys worked on my car and then the alignment went bad, not before you worked on it, don't you garuntee your work?!" He said "sure but what we did had nothing to do with the alignment". I replied "but you just changed out a bunch of parts in my front end, the car was noisy but the alignment was fine prior to you doing work on it" he replied, "don't worry this alignment is on Ford, you don't have to pay." That wasn't the point and it was obvious to me he wasn't getting it, so I just gave up on the arguement.

The guy a few post up mentioned that this was pretty much how most dealers treat warranty work, thats not so, my experiance with Honda was so far supperior to any Ford dealerships I've dealt with thus far. And it was a car that cost only Half what my Mustang cost.

My trunk was not lined up from the factory, I dented it forcing it closed, they fixed the alignment, popped the dent and fixed the paint. And they were very curtious and knowledgable. More than I can say for any of the 4 Ford dealerships I've dealt with so far.

OBleedingMe

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nynvolt @ March 6, 2006, 1:11 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I hope this gets resolved.

I had my car in for the strut problem, it clanked and clunked but drove straight. They replaced the parts and I could litterally do a dough-nut if I took my hands off the wheel. I had to run to work but called them imeadiately to complain/set an alignment apointment. I go in to get the alignment done and the guy tells me, "your lucky, Ford offers you one free alignment!" I asked him if I had not had that free alignment comming, would they have charged me, even after they did the shoddy work, he replied "yes". I replied "but you guys worked on my car and then the alignment went bad, not before you worked on it, don't you garuntee your work?!" He said "sure but what we did had nothing to do with the alignment". I replied "but you just changed out a bunch of parts in my front end, the car was noisy but the alignment was fine prior to you doing work on it" he replied, "don't worry this alignment is on Ford, you don't have to pay." That wasn't the point and it was obvious to me he wasn't getting it, so I just gave up on the arguement.

The guy a few post up mentioned that this was pretty much how most dealers treat warranty work, thats not so, my experiance with Honda was so far supperior to any Ford dealerships I've dealt with thus far. And it was a car that cost only Half what my Mustang cost.

My trunk was not lined up from the factory, I dented it forcing it closed, they fixed the alignment, popped the dent and fixed the paint. And they were very curtious and knowledgable. More than I can say for any of the 4 Ford dealerships I've dealt with so far.
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And if you called Ford Customer Service about it, they would immediately side with the dealership. That's all they do. They call the dealership, say they have a PO'ed customer on the line, and to explain the situation so they can get you off the phone. That's ALL they do.

It sounds like what your dealership did was fix your strut problem and forgot tot align the wheels afterwards... or they did it intentionally to get you on a wheel alignment charge. If you didn't have that free wheel alignment, they'd claim they have no idea how your wheels got that way, and the dealership would charge you. They'd say you hit a pothole or something and done the damage yourself.

Scummy, scummy thing to do, but that's how Ford dealerships in my area treat customers.

adrenalin

moving to the issues section

OBleedingMe

UPDATE: Well, I received a call from Camille in the Executive Office of Ford on Monday. It was a very disappointing conversation. All she did was call the service manager Joe Pati at Down Ford and ask about the situation. She just backed up what they said, saying that they don't cover "wheel alignments" after 12k or 12 months. I repeated that I was more that willing to pay for the wheel alignment, I just didn't want to be charged for the camber bolts/grind work that needed to be done to give the dealership the ABILITY to align the wheels. I also reiterated that my tires were RUINED from this factory-born problem. She was quiet for a minute, then she just carefully repeated her wheel alignment warranty speech. This is exactly what the customer service reps did - they listened to my claim, called the dealership, and backed up the dealership. Except it took them ten minutes to do, not nearly an entire week.

It was at this point that I asked her position in the company. She revealed to me that she was just a customer service representative manager. All this time I was talking to a person pretty low on the totem pole... apparently the Executive Office is just a fancy name for MANAGER or SUPERVISER, much like they call fast food workers "sales associates" or "team members." Needless to say, I was disgusted and politely ended the call.

You see, the problem with Ford customer service is that they aren't directly connected to Ford (or so they claim), they have no real technical knowledge at all, and they just trust whatever the dealership says. The only purpose customer service serves is to vent and log complaints that don't have an impact on anything. The reps almost act like the customer is someone else's problem and the dealer is really THEIR customer.

I knew I had to get this problem fixed, and I knew I couldn't wait months, so I was forced to order the parts for the work from Seabreeze Ford and have it done by Firestone. I picked up the parts Tuesday morning and drove directly to Firestone. Very honest guys down there. The mechanics there couldn't believe how I was treated. They recommended I write letters and keep trying for reimburstment. One guy gave me a number for a news agency. I'm going to see if I can get the manager of the store to write me a letter corroborating my claims. I'm sure they will, being that they gave me print outs of the before/after wheel alignment results and they wrote the words WARRANTY SUSPENSION WORK NEEDED on the original wheel alignment check invoice.

After all was said and done, this little adventure cost me about $320.00, about 50% less than Downs Ford who quoted me nearly $600.00 for the job. Broken down, it was $110.00 for parts from Ford and about $200.00 for the labor/wheel alignment. It would have been $50.00 less, but I took the lifetime wheel alignment package, because god knows how many more alignments I'm going to need. They were very reasonable at Firestone. They even took off my initial $20.00 wheel alignment check charge from last week. Unfortunately, I'm sure my total will fly up to around $800 after I get new tires.

When I returned home, I called up Ford Customer Service to do the only thing I could do over the phone - I lodged an official complaint against Downs Ford, the service manager Joe Pati, and the head tech Tony Vivona. It doesn't do a damned thing but I wanted it officially documented for down the road. The rep also said she'd forward my claim to the customer relations manager for review... yeah, that's a laugh riot.

Currently, I have drafted letters to NJ Consumer Affairs, the Better Business Bureau, the state DA, and Ford Motor Company. I have included copies of the wheel alignment print outs, my bills, and all other pertinent documentation. Who knows, if you make enough noise, someone may listen.

For all who are interested, here's the before/after wheel alignment print outs as well as the wheel alignment check invoice from Firestone.

Mongoose

Charlie you and Dustin are certainly having your problems and I feel for both of you. Your lack of mechanical and negotiating skills are evident in your posting. By your own admission you rotated the tires so why did you not notice the tread ware yourself?
Taking your car to a big F store for mechanical work is not the correct thing to do including alignment work.
You situation went down hill from here very fast
Worst yet trotting down to the dealer service dept with a paper from that store defining the condition of your car. You automatically generated a negative response.
You were told this was an one year issue and you were out of the time frame. Maybe it was defective from the factory but you had no way of proving this. Also you do not bore out the hole it is elongated with a die grinder and a rotary file.
I feel for you man but there is nothing you can do other than pay an alignment shop to do the work and do not say one word about the things you have posted here. As soon as you open your mouth about it they will know here comes another ------- and perhaps take advantage of you.
I mean no malice or animosity with my posting to you but man you need to wake up and at least find a shop you cat trust.
Best of luck to YA.

OBleedingMe

Like I said before, I did not notice the tread wear because my last tire rotation was done by STS, NOT ME. The wear has become more and more evident in the last 12k miles.

I did not CHOOSE to take my car to Firestone. Seabreeze Ford does not do alignment work and recommended I go there. They told me they send all their alignment work to this particular store. Being that ball joints were fine, I went down to Firestone and tried to get the wheel alignment. THAT is when I found out about the camber bolt kit/grind work. I was quite professional when I returned to the dealership with the paperwork.

Now, as for getting the terminology/procedure wrong, I admit I know jack about wheel alignment work. However, I am quite knowledgable in other area of automobile mechanics. I work on my own cars. My father and I restored his (now mine) '67 Shelby GT 500. The 427 Tunnelport High-Rise we have in there runs like a bear. Those cross bolts make the block very strong.

I have been professional from day one of this soap opera. I have been professional with the dealerships, the customer reps, and in ALL my drafted letters. I'm doing EXACTLY what I should/can do to get this situation resolved. I did not find satisfaction with the dealerships or customer service and I'm moving up the ladder. All my letters have CCs on them to let the recipients know what other entities are receving my letter.

As for shops I can trust with work I cannot do from my home (alignments, dyno runs, tranny work, engine swap, some strut work), I trust Grones and JDM Engineering (Freehold, NJ). My father has known Grones for over 25 years. We're good friends with Earl and Ralph over there. Real good guys. I was turned on to JDM from svtperformance.com and based on what fellow Englishtown Raceway's participants have said. So far, they've been quite reasonable for the dyno runs/computer tunes I use them for.

No malice intended, but please, don't ASSume I'm a sucker or ignorant of automotive mechanics. I'm not. I do, however, know when I'm being screwed over in business.

tkogt

for anyone else that has camber issues there is a kit that is made by specialty products co that costs
about $80 installed and makes the camber adjustable (we charge $39.95 for the kit & $39.50 labor, the alignment costs $60.00)

part # 81260 eibach(sp) sells the same kit, same part # but im sure it cost more because of the brand name thing


hope this helps


jay