OBleedingMe

I am looking to contact a Regional Representative in charge of Ford dealerships in the NJ area.

Here's my story:

I went to get my first wheel alignment this week at STS (car has 18k, flat). I rotate my tires myself every 6k. Unfortunately, the techs came back and told me they could not rotate my tires due to faulty ball joints. I returned home and made an appointment with Seabreeze Ford in Belmar, NJ to get the control arms and ball joints replaced (the balljoints are non-serviceable) under warranty. I arrived at their dealership promptly at 8:00 AM. By 8:15 AM, they asked me to come into the garage. They told me there was nothing wrong with my ball joints, that my front end was fine. They had the car up on the lift and showed me that the ball joints had no play in them. I thanked them and went down the road two miles to Firestone to get my wheels aligned (Seabreeze did not possess a wheel alignment machine). The Firestone techs told me that they could not align my wheels because the wheels were out of the adjustment range. The control arm/strut bolts needed to be elongated to correct the problem. In addition, this problem has caused severe undue and abnormal wear on my tires. The inside tread is worn down to the wear indicators while the outside treads are almost full. This is true for all four tires, so this has been a problem for quite some time. They printed me out a copy of the the alignment test. The Camber, Caster, and Toe were deep into the red (out of adjustment range). Only the Camber on the right wheel was in the green (alignable).

To remedy this problem, the Firestone techs told me I would need to elongate the control arms and struts via special bolts from Ford. Being that that strut needed to be dropped and the control arm removed for the work, it would cost around $400 to repair. Add in a new set of Pirellis, a wheel alignment, and the cost comes to $1,000. They recommended I return to Seabreeze with the information I had from them and have it fixed under warranty as this was a defect from the factory. I asked about the tires, being that they were basically shot and I had less than 20k on them. They agreed those should be replaced as well because the severe undue wear was caused by a factory defect, not driving conditions/habits.

Upon returning to Seabreeze, I was immediately told by Fred, the service manager, that this was a "wheel alignment issue" and that wheel alignment issues are only covered for the first 12k or 12 months of the warranty. I countered that it wasn't an alignment issue, but improperly installed components that wore out my tires in 18,000 miles and have rendered my wheels unalignable. He repeated his previous "wheel alignment issue" statement. This eventually became a mantra for Fred, and the conversation quickly became unproductive, bordering on patronizing. I ended the conversation and left the dealership, more than a little dissatisfied with the "service" I received.

I have an appointment scheduled for Downs Ford of Toms River, NJ tomorrow at 8:00 AM. I explained the problem to them over the phone, and they seemed a little more receptive to the issue, despite the fact the woman on the phone seemed very adverse to replacing my abnormally worn tires. I am willing to pay a pro-rate for the tires (no higher than $20 per tire) if they so request, although I feel even that is unfair. They also have a wheel alignment machine, so I don't need to worry about going elsewhere for wheel alignment specs. I will bring a copy of my Firestone wheel alignment results for comparison and reference.

I called Ford Customer Service to make them aware of my situation and leave negative feedback against Seabreeze Ford. I informed the of the entire situation and they also said they forwarded a message the the manager of Downs Ford to give him a heads up on the situation. Although I appreciated the gesture, I feel an email to a manager that may not be opened for weeks or deleted altogether is not sufficent. When I asked for a Regional Representative's phone number, they claimed they do not have those phone numbers, that they're "dealer specific."

If anyone on here knows where I can find a NJ Regional Rep's phone number, please feel free to post or PM me.

Comments/advice on my current situation is also welcome. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img]

Twehttam

Unless a Ford employee is willing to post the number, you won't get it directly. Call your local Ford dealer and have them initiate the conversation.

FinlayZJ

If Ford wants to call it a "wheel alignment issue" tell them you will gladly pay for them to adjust the toe/camber/caster to within factory tolerances using the factory adjustment pieces for $69 or whatever they normally charge. When they come back and tell you it can't be done then you can start implying the should be covered under the 3/36 warranty because it's factory defective parts. Good luck with your problem.

ford4v429

Ive heard 20k is about normal for the tires...I'm not thrilled either, probably wont buy soft tires when the time comes. btw- if youre not far from michigan/indiana, theres a guy selling new mounted takeoffs for 500 a set - if you pick them up its a steal...roush/saleen takeoffs w/zero miles...

as far as alignment, they could try to peg something on abuse/road hazard type stuff- what exactly did the alignment shop say was mis-installed, and did you ever have the car back for alignment reasons before- you know something to show problem was there from day one type of thing...and car has not been lowered at all has it? just curious.

1200custom

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=22896

Maybe some info here would help??

ford4v429

ps-
theres a 'brand F' strore I know of that has really hosed a few friends BAD...neighbor got hit for 1700 bucks on a friggin brake job that was not needed- he just gave the ok to do whatever they thought was necessary, and they rebuilt his truck (20k miles on it!).
name on the sign dont mean much to me. I'd suggest trying a NTB store for a second look- theyll check alignment for free(used to anyway). NTB is the only garage Ive ever been to in my life that hasnt caused me grief, but maybe my local store is just a good one [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

the offset bolts from ford wont cost much, and it sounds like theyre wanting to hit you for over 450 bucks for 60 seconds of die grinder work. I would suggest strongly you go somewhere else.

Badsnke98

FinlayZJ's reply makes the most sense at this time. Also I know it to be factual that where one dealer may choose not cover something under factory warranty, another just may do your requested replacement or repairs. It pays to check around.

What I would like to know is, if all four tires are shot the same way so prematurely and you handle tire rotation, I'm at a loss as to why this problem did not come to light before the 12K of Factory alignment warranty?

MTAS

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(OBleedingMe @ February 28, 2006, 2:45 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I am looking to contact a Regional Representative in charge of Ford dealerships in the NJ area.

I called Ford Customer Service to make them aware of my situation and leave negative feedback against Seabreeze Ford. I informed the of the entire situation and they also said they forwarded a message the the manager of Downs Ford to give him a heads up on the situation. Although I appreciated the gesture, I feel an email to a manager that may not be opened for weeks or deleted altogether is not sufficent. When I asked for a Regional Representative's phone number, They claimed they do not have those phone numbers, that they're "dealer specific."

If anyone on here knows where I can find a NJ Regional Rep's phone number, please feel free to post or PM me.

Comments/advice on my current situation is also welcome. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsdown.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

Trust me, they have the numbers but the person on the phone with you would lose their job almost instantaneously if they gave it out. The Area Reps are actual Ford employees, not dealership employees. Twehttam is correct - the dealer will have to initiate a meeting with the Area Rep. I worked for GM Customer Service for a while and a meeting with the Area Rep is possible.

mrGT

I have found that Ford, and GM for that matter, quality tolerances for camber/caster alignment angles are fairly large. I assume this is so they can say that their vehicles alignment fall withing their Quality Assurance Program requirements. Therefore, after about a 1000 miles, I took my new car, truck, or van to my trusted alignment shop and had it checked and adjusted. Without fail, they made adjustments to the factory settings....and without fail, the vehicle drove better. The only car I have owned that passed this test without adjustments was a Lexus.

I came upon this when I bought a van and my tires wore out in less than 20K miles. I now rotate tires every 5000 miles, and have my alignment checked every 15,000 or when needed like after hitting a major chuckhole, curb, etc. Since I started this procedure, I've gotten at least the tire rating mileage on all my tires.

When I get my Shelby, it too, will see my trusted alignment shop. But I doubt I get the full rated mileage....because I want to smmmmoke 'em every now and then!!

I have only owned a Ford, Chevy, or Lexus, so I don't have no judgement about any others.

97svtgoin05gt

This sucks man. Dont' take it lying down. Proceed on and get this resolved. I'm fairly sure the tires will have to come out of your pocket, but these other issues that caused it DEFINTELY need to be resolved.

Lord knows I'll be watching my tires from now on real close.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img]

OBleedingMe

UPDATE: I went to Downs Ford this morning at 8 AM. I handed them the alignment information Firestone had printed out for me. I waited three hours for my car. I periodically checked on my car. It was moved to the waiting lot about fifteen minutes after I arrived, wheels cocked to the left. It was NEVER pulled into the service bay lot. It just sat outside in the waiting lot. A service tech named Tony came in the waiting room at 10:55 AM and gave me the same information I received from Firestone yesterday. My wheels were out of the alignment's adjustment range and the holes in the strut/control arm needed to be elongated to fix the problem. Ford was aware of the issue and has a kit for it. Unfortunately the dealership, I was told, considers this a "wheel alignment issue" and the warranty on wheel alignment issues expire after 12k miles or 12 months. I would have to pay over $600 for the work. I countered that this sounds like a factory DESIGN FLAW from Ford, being that they made the adjust margin too small. I didn't bore the holes, Ford did. Why should I pay for a mistake Ford made? He shrugged and he told me that was their policy.

Here's the kicker - I was charged $52.13 for a wheel alignment CHECK. First of all, this was a gross overcharge. I know because I've had plenty of alignment checks before. They run from $15.00 to $25.00. Then Tony had the gall to tell me they had my car in the bay for 1.5 hours trying to "get my car on the machine" (as if my car was a troublemaker of sorts) and he COULD have charged me almost $150.00 dollars in labor.

Wow! Good ol' Tony was giving me a break! At least, that's what he wanted me to think. I told him he was full of it. I told him the car never entered the service bay and they used the Firestone information I gave them to tell me what I already knew. His lips curdled into a knowing grin and told me this was the fee, and if I didn't pay it, they would hold my car pending legal action.

I paid the bill (even the cashier lady was rude) with my credit card. I called my credit card company and disputed the charge for services not rendered. My credit card company has sided with me. Downs Ford will not be receiving any monies from me nor will they be receiving any future business from me. They are overpriced and dishonest. Don't let their performance department lure you in. If anyone wants serious performance work done in NJ, I suggest JDM Engineering in Freehold or Extreme Mustangs in Jackson. Very reputable, very good, very reasonable.

Upon returning home, I called Ford Customer Service. I was very calm. I said many times I wanted to set up an appointment with a Regional Representative. I explained the situation in its entirety to the woman. She continually rebuffed my request for an appointment with a Regional Representative. She asked me to hold on for 3 or 4 minutes. I agreed. She came back saying she had spoken with Service Manager, Joe, at Downs Ford. She told me my problem was not covered under the current warranty. I said how do you now that? Her answer? Because Joe said so. It is Ford Customer Service's policy to side with the dealership's diagnosis, no questions asked. The conversation quickly degenerated from there. I will spare you the details. In the end, I received a mailing address for Ford Motor Company in which to write my complaint to and an abrupt disconnection.

After using my noggin a bit, I was able to come up with a phone number for Ford Motor Co. I called this number and spoke to the operator. Without going into detail, I found my way to the Executive Office branch. The woman I spoke to was very brisk and professional. She was also a bit surprised I had gotten her office. She asked me to explain the situation. From the initial STS alignment check, to my request for prorated tires, to the way Downs Ford treated me, she seemed pretty perturbed about the whole situation. She asked me for 2 - 3 business days to get back to me. She took my phone number, the names of everyone I talked to (ya reading this, Tony? Joe?) at Downs Ford, and assured me she would get back to me. She even gave me her full name. Hopefully, I'll be posting positive results in this thread by Friday or next Monday.

If I do not receive satisfaction from the Executive Office, I will be forced to repair my car out of my own pocket. The only good news is that Firestone has quoted me a price of $276 before parts. If I pick up the kit myself from a nearby dealership, I'll save some green. The total cost will come out to just under $400, $200 cheaper than Downs Ford's quote.

Lessons learned?

Dealerships will go so far as to alienate customers to avoid doing warranty work.

Dealerships will shamelessly charge for services never rendered, banking on their customers' indifference and/or ignorance of the situation at hand.

Slogans change, people don't. Greed is still the driving factor in Ford service centers.

If you fight hard enough and use your head, your voice may be heard by the right person.

If there any dealerships in NJ area that are reading this, feel free to restore my faith in YOUR good faith and PM me. Keeping me as a good customer is a sound business decision. I am loyal to the right people.

Shea

Sounds like you finally got through to someone who actually cared a little bit.

If that falls through, why don't you PM one of the dealership employees we
have as posters on this site and get their advice?

I still don't understand how a known problem with the car can cause your tires to wear out and they say it's not under warranty.

I thought it was bumper to bumper for 36K???

Lastly, if you were rotating the tires, how did you not notice this before they were shot?

MTAS

Good to hear someone at Ford was at least willing to listen to you. If you do end up writing a letter, it will be directed to the person who had your file open on the phone. Pure and simple. Very rarely to the letters actually get to the executive to which they're addressed. Hopefully it won't come to that. Good luck and keep us posted.

tech

I feel your pain. Situations, though not carried to such lengths, have happened to me before.

I have to disagree slightly on your comment that they will go to lengths to not do warranty work (close enough). Dealerships don't care if you or Ford pays for the job. They have to convince Ford that the repair was warrantable and return any replaced parts to them. This was explained to me during my little pinion seal leak episode. Whether or not the returning the parts stuff is true, Ford has more money allocated to warranty work than all of our salaries combined (and then some). If FOMOCO takes a hit, the dealership could care less.

OBleedingMe

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shea @ March 1, 2006, 4:32 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I still don't understand how a known problem with the car can cause your tires to wear out and they say it's not under warranty.

I thought it was bumper to bumper for 36K???

Lastly, if you were rotating the tires, how did you not notice this before they were shot?
[/b][/quote]

I did not notice the wear because my last rotation was done by STS while I was in the process of purchasing a new jack (old one failed). Within the last 6k, the wear has become much more evident.

The dealership keeps claiming this is a wheel alignment issue, NOT a factory issue. Wheel alignment issues are only covered for 12k or 12 months. Despite the dealership's claims, the fact remains that Ford left far too little margin of adjustment for proper wheel alignment. The holes in the control arms/struts need to be bored to accomodate elongated bolts to allow for more adjustment margin. Ford is aware of this and even made up a kit to rectify it. This is obviously a factory DESIGN FLAW and has nothing to do with aligning the wheels, but giving the mechanic the ABILITY to align the wheels. I will gladly pay for my wheel alignment, I just don't believe I should have to pay for reboring holes and changing bolts because Ford put the wrong bolts on the control arms/struts. I am asking for prorated tires because the condition created by the improper bolts has caused severe and abnormal undue wear on my tires, drastically shortening their life. I feel I'm being fair, especially after all the aggravation I've been put through.

htwag

The other part of this is whether or not this happens to other Mustang owners. We all need to keep an eye open for similiar problems with our Mustangs.

John SCB

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htwag @ March 1, 2006, 3:26 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
The other part of this is whether or not this happens to other Mustang owners. We all need to keep an eye open for similiar problems with our Mustangs.
[/b][/quote]


Yeah...this sounds pretty serious! Signature says "upgraded wheels"... what size wheels/tires are they? Maybe that's the cause of the problem... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]


Has anyone else had their wheels aligned yet?? Let's hear from you!1 [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img]

SonicGT

every when should a wheel alignment be made?

bob

Atleast twice a year or if you encounter a major obstacle (bad pot hole, curb strike, large object in the road, etc.) On the plus side, strut frontends are very tough, or forgiving (depending on your perspective)

OBleedingMe

Upgraded wheels just means that I purchased the optional wheels that were available in '05. They're just 17" stock optional rims, nothing special about them.