woody1

B) There are wanna-be's and doers in this world. Your position has placed you in the world of doers while Script has sounds like a Wanna-be. For what it's worth you get the respect he desires.

Script

B) There are wanna-be's and doers in this world. Your position has placed you in the world of doers while Script has sounds like a Wanna-be. For what it's worth you get the respect he desires. [/b][/quote]
I wasn’t trying to directly offend any one, but you have to come to terms with your carrier choice at some point. What I say is no secret, national statistics have shown that the least trusted and least respected job title is a car salesmen. If you must hide from the truth so be it.

If some of you are sick of such a negative persona being displayed upon the profession at large perhaps you should take steps to change it, Saturn did. I will admit that I have had maybe two or three salesmen that where very nice people. It's just too bad that their numbers are disproportionate to the situation as a whole. Few people have the privilege of dealing with them. Perhaps my previous post was a bit to hasty to make such a generalization. Just realize that stereo types wouldn’t come along if their wasn’t a bit of truth to them.

My personal observations lead me to believe that car salesmen (as a whole) have very little to no respect for the people putting money in their pockets. Prove me wrong, don’t just hide and make darty little innuendos because you have little or in this case no logic to argue, like woody here.

Bek355,

I don’t run from debates or other peoples views, speak up.

cdemot02

I'm not sure how it works in all the states, but I know at our dealerships we give the best prices to customers over the internet. Usually because they are out of town, and we want to earn their business. So you might want to try dealing with the internet department.

Karpro

Yea Saturn did everyone a great favor (spoken sarcastically). They sold borderline quality vehicles at MSRP. You talk about having bad dealings with salespeople, walk in any dealership and pay sticker for the car and you won't have any problems. Saturn didn't do anyone any favors.




Gee, after that statement, I have no idea why you can't seem to get a salesperson treat you with any respect (spoken with even more sarcasism)

Paris MkVI

IMHO. . .

To dump all the vitriol, blame and responsibility on car salespeople is VERY over-simplistic and short-sighted.

Folks who sell cars for a living pay mortgages, buy clothes and food, and, well, buy cars too!

Like people in ALL walks of life, you'll find excpetional ones, good ones, mediocre ones, and liars and thieves. No different from any other line of work.

They work on commission. If the dealership makes no money, neither do they. The dealership can get by for a stretch on deals with the manufacturer, holdback, etc. but the sales staff cannot.

Lastly, the salepeople have to deal with the sales MANAGERS, and the owner or General Manager, the folks who really call the tune on how a dealership treats people. If you want to come down on a dealership, lay most of the responsibility at the feet of management, where it belongs.

In our culture we're used to paying whatever price is marked on an item up to a certain level. After that, everything is negotiable - on things like cars, houses, etc. But the rest of our consumer existence doesn't prepare us for the negotiating world. So most of us are woefully unskilled in the art of negotiation.

Want to have a good experience buying a car? Get skilled at negotiating. DO your homework first. Know the numbers. Then you can strike a deal that everyone (even the car salesman) can walk away from happy.

If a person drives off a lot with a vehicle that the dealer made 15% profit on and the salesman made a four-figure commission, is that wrong? Not if the buyer willingly entered into the deal. The buyer has responsibilties too.

All strictly and exclusively my humble opinion. BTW, I do not sell cars.

ace0215

I'm not trying to take anybody's side and I'm not one to like stereo types, but you have to realize that the stereo type comes from somewhere. I agree that there are "excpetional ones, good ones, mediocre ones, and liars and thieves". And i'm glad to have found some good ones, but in the past I have had some of the mediocre, liars etc. It's the nature of being a salesmen and working on a comission. We need more places like carmax and this would happen less often.

stangdreamer

Hi,

I am a newbie but have been following for months. My opinion is that all you who preordered are going to have a hard time negotiating. You will probably pay the MSRP. You think a dealer is going to give you a discount when you ordered a car sight unseen without knowing how much its going to be? They know they got you locked in. You took the initiative and already know far more about this car than 99% of the dealers out there.

Anyway thats just my opinion. I am not yet in a position to buy (Family obligations come first) I hope to pick up either a 2005 or a 66-67 in the future.

Best of luck to all of you early negotiaters you are gonna need it.

Maybe Ford will hire you as mustang salesmen to help pay for your ride.

ace0215

You should have read through the site before posting, but I won't hold it against you too much

When pre-ordering, the negotiating has already been done (even before pricing had come out). Basically the dealer agrees to sell the car for $X.XX above invoice or $Y.YY below MSRP or something like that. My deal was $300 under invoice!! I'm getting a great deal!

And even though we have pre-ordered...we still are not obligated to buy the car if we don't like it.

kevinb120

The dealership has to pay that. Its in the "anatomy of an invoice" on the FAQ thread. You can see they are line items added into the "invoice" price.

kevinb120

You should have read through the site before posting, but I won't hold it against you too much

When pre-ordering, the negotiating has already been done (even before pricing had come out). Basically the dealer agrees to sell the car for $X.XX above invoice or $Y.YY below MSRP or something like that. My deal was $300 under invoice!! I'm getting a great deal!

And even though we have pre-ordered...we still are not obligated to buy the car if we don't like it. [/b][/quote]
$300 under invoice? I wouldnt hold my breath.

kevinb120

LOL no, offense, but you can feel free to try that here anytime, I will not hesitate to simply give a customer directions to the next dealer down the block.

kevinb120

In all honesty, in my time in this business i have learned that the biggest liars and thieves I have met were customers. As for Carmax, it makes nearly $4000 per car, some over $6000 and you can not do anything about it. They laugh all the way to the bank on every sale there, they only pay order takers a few bucks to move them. I have sold the exact same vehicles actually serviced by Ford techs with Ford certifications for THOUSANDS less then Carmax units all the time. People are so scared the mysterious 'other guy' will get a better deal then them they just lay-down at Carmax. Saturn actually has the easiest purchase setup I have ever seen. Its about 8% dealer proffit, no fuss no muss, eveyone is happy. If you can get yourself to like one, that is. It is that way because the vehicles are not exactly desireable, so they focus on the buying process. At some point in the future there will be fixed retail and purchase plan prices. Its the only concievable outcome as information/competition evolve.

Red/Black GT

Thanks for the info Kevin. All the dealers that I have been dealing with have included this charge on the invoice and I am negotiating based on the final Invoice price. Do you think I should talk to them about removing this charge, or should I just forget about it as its only 180 $?

The only thing I don't understand is why does the Manufacturer charge for advertisement from dealers on a per car basis? Shouldn't they bear that charge??

kevinb120

You cant, that $ is for local dealers fees for the "see your washington area Ford dealer" commercials that Ford pays to put on the air.

kevinb120

Pretty much on the money. I would like to see one of my customers turn down a 15% pay raise for a job they are already getting paid too much to do(a high-level government employee I sold a car the other day to comes to mind). "No thanks, I'm fine, I dont want to be unfair, you should actually cut my pay a bit, its a little much for me getting off at 3:30 every day and having 20 paid hollidays a year"........ Basically, if you are doing a job that you are not getting paid enough for, welcome to our world. We just have the opportunity to change our pay if we feel like working for it. If you are at a job that the things in life you want you can not afford, its your own fault. Most likely, for the average well-paid employee SOMEONE is getting charged for proffit somewhere for your perks, thats kind of the way any free economy works. SOMEONE is paying your bill.

Most people at thier jobs are no more fair to their company's customers then any car salesman. There are a lot of times we also jump through hoops for NOTHING, ZILCH, NADA extra pay, the hourlies at a dealership simply punch out and go home, you do not see them on days scheduled off, holidays, or on vacations. Its part of the business. Its not easy to be totally in control of your future, thats why most people that worked on a salary for years crack quickly in this business-especially if they over consumed goods based on a fixed number. There is no teat to nurse weekly. Salespeople run their own business with a dealer that gives them advertizing, an office, and a warehouse for a cut of the proffit.

Paris MkVI

Kevin, thank you for all the information you've brought to the site and your stand-up attitude.

I've never done your job. I do work everyday with folks selling advertising. I would not (and I mean this in the best sense) I would not have your job for anything! It has got to be a cast-iron b**** some days!

If I don't hook up with anyone local (Hampton Roads area) I like to work with, you may get to sell a car long-distance. B)

kevinb120

I used to do home improvement. I would subcontract for Home Depot. Say, I do an entire floor of an average house with all the flooring, and its a 13k tab(including the materials). I would do NONE of the work and pay others to do it, and still pull at least a 3k proffit. Home depot would make much more then that on the job, PLUS the installers made money. All at the same time underpricing everyone else in the area. So figure about 40% proffit overall(at the retail store level, not the manufacturers of the products or the home office, etc). And people say they are getting RIPPED OFF if a dealer makes $2k on a 24k vehicle. And dont get me started on Nike again(they definately sold thier souls to satan, them and the makers of the Ionic Breeze both :shock: ). What margin do you think the componet makers of the computer you are typing on made? Take off one of your shoes and see which third world country a child got paid $.01 to make it in. Wanna talk about profit margins......

Paris MkVI

I think someone once offered the opinion that the issue folks have with car sales goes back to post WW2, say 1947 to mid 50's, when you could just be an order-taker for a while and the car manufacurers could sell anything and everything they built. It was a sellers market. And like any sellers market, the sellers took full advantage of it.

Those days are gone. Kevin, I know I don't have to tell you how much you have to be a go-getter to bring home the check!

Folks forget that everyone has to get a piece of the action, or the whole system comes tumbling down.

Of course, folks can bypass the system now - internet orders, etc. But that leaves you no one to turn to THAT YOU HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH if you need some help with a problem or special attention to something.

That's why I will work with a salesperson and negotiate a deal. Because you have to think further than delivery day.

Keep your chin up, brother. Many folks do appreciate you.

pbford

Don't wanna get in a flame war here or **** anyone off but, I hope this isn't how you think of ALL your customers. From my personal experence you have it backwards.

I was at our local Ford dealer looking at an '04 Mach 1 and had a '96 Cobra to trade-in. They had a someone come look at my trade before they made an offer on it. I happened to be sitting 6 feet from my car haveing a cigarette as they looked at it and heard the guys offer and "Let me know if you get it and I'll get a check to you for it later today". When they made the offer on my trade it was $1,500.00 less than what I heard the guy offer. When I asked if that was the best they could do on my trade they said "Mr. Bradford that is every penny that we are getting for it. We can't put any more in it." When i spoke to the sales manager about it he got madder than a wet hen and told me to "Get off my lot." Which was OK with me since they were only coming down $1,500.00 off MSRP anyway.

This isn't restricted to Ford dealerships either. Had almost the same thing happen to a friend of mine at a Dodge dealer and My boss get took at a Lexus dealer.

Do I want a new Mustang? You betcha!!! Will I buy from our local dealer? Oh Heck NO!!! Do I WANT to pay MSRP? Not really. I just want a FAIR deal that BOTH the salesman and I can walk away happy with. Can I find that? Maybe.
I'd be happy if they split the difference between Dealer Cost and MSRP with me. It may be foolish and I'm sure someone, somewere will say I'm an idiot for paying that much but it is what I would call a fair deal.

Sorry for the long post.

Paul

kevinb120

Don't wanna get in a flame war here or **** anyone off but, I hope this isn't how you think of ALL your customers. From my personal experence you have it backwards.

I was at our local Ford dealer looking at an '04 Mach 1 and had a '96 Cobra to trade-in. They had a someone come look at my trade before they made an offer on it. I happened to be sitting 6 feet from my car haveing a cigarette as they looked at it and heard the guys offer and "Let me know if you get it and I'll get a check to you for it later today". When they made the offer on my trade it was $1,500.00 less than what I heard the guy offer. When I asked if that was the best they could do on my trade they said "Mr. Bradford that is every penny that we are getting for it. We can't put any more in it." When i spoke to the sales manager about it he got madder than a wet hen and told me to "Get off my lot." Which was OK with me since they were only coming down $1,500.00 off MSRP anyway.

This isn't restricted to Ford dealerships either. Had almost the same thing happen to a friend of mine at a Dodge dealer and My boss get took at a Lexus dealer.

Do I want a new Mustang? You betcha!!! Will I buy from our local dealer? Oh Heck NO!!! Do I WANT to pay MSRP? Not really. I just want a FAIR deal that BOTH the salesman and I can walk away happy with. Can I find that? Maybe.
I'd be happy if they split the difference between Dealer Cost and MSRP with me. It may be foolish and I'm sure someone, somewere will say I'm an idiot for paying that much but it is what I would call a fair deal.

Sorry for the long post.

Paul [/b][/quote]
see how easy it is to make you twitch Welcome