PaperTarget, i think you are arguing against a point that was never made. I agree completely that the '05 GT is fine at 300hp. I also agree that a SE model isn't for everyone, hence the S(pecial) in SE. My only point, from the very beginning, is that i, and quite a few others, won't be satisfied with the 300hp in the GT. I'm not saying Ford made a mistake by not putting more power in the car. I am only saying that there is an obvious gap in the line-up.

If, and this is a big if, the next Cobra costs over $40,000, then there is a big distance between a $26,000 GT and a $40,000 Cobra. That seems to leave lots of room for a SE of some kind with a nice increase in horsepower.

I think you and Boomer are maybe fighting the wrong person on this. We all would love to see a SE with more power, and i think we all believe there will be one eventually. So, what are we arguing about, again?

 

There is no arguement, its a discussion

I think there should be a SE, there will be... its inevitable.
However, as pointed out, it has to be profitable, different.

Notice in the past SE's (Bullitt/Mach1) they were more than just one subtle change. Suspension/engine and/or parts of it/body changes.

Keep a couple things in mind however.
This being a COMPLETELY new car ground up...
Ford only wants to push the bare essentials down the line.
#1 V6...it has to succeed immensely.
#2 GT for the people who crave more power.
SE and or Cobras are on hold to make sure the launch of the mainstream stuff isn't fudged...

----
Also...if for some reason the car is NOT a success (people talk the talk, but walking the walk may take time, depending on sales ((crackpot dealerships that are greedy, may force the car to do better later, when they loosen up a bit)) a 'change' may be forced, in which although hard...taking a loss on 2 varieties, rather than 3 is 'not as hard'.

And final point....
The Fox platform paid for itself YEARS before any SE came out.
The new D2C platform is BRAND new and has yet to pay itself off.
Ford wants the surefires for the first year at least....and I myself (while sad that I don't know whats down the pipe) understand their dilema.

 

What ever happened to Dealerships that used to produce SEs "back-in-the-day" during the Muscle Car Era -like Yenko(sp?)...

 

Most of those old dealer SEs were specially optioned production cars (the infamous COPO for GM) where you could order cars that couldn't be optioned that way through regular channels.

Also now you have to extensively test vehicles for crash worthiness and emissions compliance. Way more bucks than a manufacturer is going to invest for a very small model run every single time a dealer calls up and says "Yeah I'd like to option 100 GT's fitted with Lightening motors".

On the flip side a dealer could make such cars, like the Drag Pak SN95s, but you've also got to warranty them, you've got the EPA specter and so forth. Making a dealer SE pretty sketchy.

OE's and guys like Saleen or Roush are the best bet for SE's

 

Boomer, thanks for the reply. Those are definately some valid points i hadn't really thought about. I guess i will just be happy with what i have for now, and watch closely for word of that SE down the road. I hope those of you who are buying the GT have a blast with them. I will envy your early buying enjoyment, and hope for some of my own soon enough.

 

Well if you did some research, you'll find that the Supercharged 4.6L Cobra and the 32v NA Mach 1 engines where both underrated by Ford. Both models showed more power at the wheels on a dyno then they where supposed to show


Personally I rather have the car underrated. Once you start getting over 250 HP your insurance company starts putting the screws to you.

No sense in making the insurance go up any more then it has too. And with me living in NJ, my insurance would prob be almost as much as my car payment, even with my good record.

Anyway I would love to see a 350 hp/IRS car for under 30K...I would sign up for that

 

i will be buying a 06 with 18" wheels. se or vert. like brad said a long time ago
that ford has never made a se vert. if they did, id try to beat brad in getting mine first. but brad would win. i bet brad could even drive it off the line.

 

While I would love to see an SE soon. I am certain I will enjoy the gt as much as my current Cobra. I look at it as this. It will make the same hp as my cobra on cheaper gas (I commute alot). Have a better chassis and suspension. But mostly it has a better look to it (IMHO). If I become dissatisfied with the gt when the SE comes out. I may take a loss and buy one. But I do have a question. Why is everyone so certain the Cobra will be $40k or more? I haven't seen anything other than the statement that it is going upscale. To indicate any price increase (Other than inflation). And we don't know how much the current price could put towards "upscale".

 

Current Cobra Mystic Chrome 44,000, MSRP.

Edit (can not remember if it was a vert or not)

 

That is a vert. The $40k is speculation based on the rumored improvements.

 

i hate 40K for a stang. but if you get a saleen or a roush its already way above that. and now we can get one mainstream from ford, with better power, handling and looks IMO so 40k for a cobra doesnt sound too bad. though 20k would be great. if ford did that our stang would follow suit like gm did the f-body. the muistang no matter the price is still going to be one of the best performance values for the dollar.

 

$40k is a lot. But, like you said, the Saleen/Roush etc. are much more than that. Where else can you find that kind of performance for $40k? See my post under the "make of this what you will" thread. If the Cobra did have 500hp, carbon fiber chassis pieces, possibly an SMG, modern IRS and whatever else SVT has up their sleeve, you are not going to find that for less than $60k. Z06, M5, Viper anyone?

 

The above car would be impressive as it sits. Put another $20 into engine and suspension mods and that thing would be downright wicked.

 

I would be shocked to see a 15% increase in Cobra pricing for the next MY. I would figure more along the line of 10%.

We can speculate all we want, except we obviously will not know for a while.

A 300hp GT is a very good thing ..Conservative, yet aggressive. Let's not forget who buys the most Mustangs and why and what type. Affordability will always be a part of the Mustang equation. Not everyone wants massive hp( i.e. F-body demise).

 

$20 in engine and suspension mods?

please don't tell me you mean yellow stickers and yellow wire looms ? :R:

 

I can see where you are coming from. I love everything about the '05's, i just want more power than the GT comes with, and maybe a little more exclusivity. But, i would never fault someone for trading in on a GT. They should be great cars, just not what i am waiting on.

Also, about the $40,000+ Cobra: We don't know for sure what the next Cobra will cost. However, lots of evidence points to this price range being correct. Ford keeps stating that the next Cobra will move upscale and compete with the BMW M cars, and all early information points to the S/C 5.4 DOHC engine with 450-500hp being in the car. When you look at the current Cobra's MSRP of around $34,000 for a coupe and $37,000 for a vert, then over $40,000 doesn't sound all that crazy does it? And, i could easily see a 15% price increase for the new Cobra. If most of what we are hearing about it is true, it will be a big step up from previous generation Cobra's. In fact, it would be the biggest jump up in all areas that any Mustang has made from one generation to the next. And it would warrant a price increase of this amount.

I would also agree that $40,000 for a car of this caliber isn't really a bad deal, when you compare it to the competition. However, that still won't make a price of $40,000 any more attractive when i look at my bank account.

 

Keep in mind the rumors the next gen. cobra will have a sequential Manual Gearbox (paddle shifters). That alone will drive up the price of the vehicle, and lower your track times to boot!

 

I would love to have a Cobra again as well. But my butt hurts from being bent over the gas pumps so much.

The thing of it is though. Ford has not said even how upscale it will go. And I personally do think a 15% increase is just plain nuts. If it has carbon fiber body panels. A paddle shifted transmission. And forged aluminum or magnesium wheels. Well then I can see some of that increase amking sense. But I wouldn't count on any of those.

 

$20 in engine and suspension mods?

please don't tell me you mean yellow stickers and yellow wire looms ? :R: [/b][/quote]
Chuckling. I did that early this am. I meant $20K. Although the stickers will be the first mod

 

I am willing to pay for performance.

A new, stiffer ( is that a word) chassis, a 100 hp per liter motivator (underrated of course, somebody is going to figure this out) leap in interior quality, a car built by guys that care what they are screwing together, is what I want. I want an hiney kicking alternative to all that is Japanese, German, and GM in that order. Did I forget anyone? We have toiled forever pushing these FORDS to the LIMIT, which I LOVE, before I would dirve anything else. We always will. We EXIST, and we want it NOW.

Can I hear an Amen?

COBRA