Need some help here guys
10/2/04, 12:48 PM
#1
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Ok, so I stopped in the dealer today with my Dad ready to put my downpayment down and sign a contract. When we ordered my car back in June, we were promised our "usual' deal with this place, or $500 over invoice. Today is was a completely different story. They said I had to pay sticker price, no dealing at all. So basically I'm stuck. I either pay sticker price or not get my car. (Which he said will be in within two weeks!)
The thing is, I know a lot of you have gotten $500 over invoice. And this dealer is getting 3 GTs for the first allocation because they sold the most 2003 Mustangs in Ohio. One is mine. But they say since the allocation is so small, they're sorry but $500 over invoice is not possible. He said no dealer would give that to us, period.
So here's were all you guys come in:
If you could, leave your name, dealer's name, dealership name, location, phone numbers, as specific as possible, down to VINs and final prices if you will. (Or if you don't want to give out personal info, then jsut where you got your Mustang from) The more people I get showing they got it for $500 over invoice or less the better. I just want to prove to him others are doing it.
I know its only a difference of about $2000 on my car in particular, but I'm 17, and $2000 means 3 months of work for me. So, if you could, compile all that info in this thread and I'll print it out and show them Monday.
And he doesn't know who he's messing with. I have a lot of inner teenage rage thats built up inside me the past year and I'll let it all out when I go. I don't understand what they're problem is. My dad has bought 16 cars fom this place since 1979 and they lie to us now and treat us like poo? That's shady, very shady.
All these dealers are gonna make a boatload on these cars once production is caught up, so whats the big deal?
Good news is, he said I'll have the first shipment and I'll be driving one of the first in Ohio, which made me feel good.
Alright, thanks for any help!
The thing is, I know a lot of you have gotten $500 over invoice. And this dealer is getting 3 GTs for the first allocation because they sold the most 2003 Mustangs in Ohio. One is mine. But they say since the allocation is so small, they're sorry but $500 over invoice is not possible. He said no dealer would give that to us, period.
So here's were all you guys come in:
If you could, leave your name, dealer's name, dealership name, location, phone numbers, as specific as possible, down to VINs and final prices if you will. (Or if you don't want to give out personal info, then jsut where you got your Mustang from) The more people I get showing they got it for $500 over invoice or less the better. I just want to prove to him others are doing it.
I know its only a difference of about $2000 on my car in particular, but I'm 17, and $2000 means 3 months of work for me. So, if you could, compile all that info in this thread and I'll print it out and show them Monday.
And he doesn't know who he's messing with. I have a lot of inner teenage rage thats built up inside me the past year and I'll let it all out when I go. I don't understand what they're problem is. My dad has bought 16 cars fom this place since 1979 and they lie to us now and treat us like poo? That's shady, very shady.
All these dealers are gonna make a boatload on these cars once production is caught up, so whats the big deal?
Good news is, he said I'll have the first shipment and I'll be driving one of the first in Ohio, which made me feel good.
Alright, thanks for any help!
10/2/04, 01:03 PM
#4
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I can't go to another dealer.
I won't have my car then. I'll have to wait until the spring. No way. I've waited 7 years for this car and saved a lot of money in that time and I've earned it. And I'm not gonna get screwed here, and I'm gonna let them know that.
I won't have my car then. I'll have to wait until the spring. No way. I've waited 7 years for this car and saved a lot of money in that time and I've earned it. And I'm not gonna get screwed here, and I'm gonna let them know that.
10/2/04, 01:12 PM
#5
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I feel your pain.
I had a similar reponse from my dealer. They did not let me lock down a price when I placed my order in June, since there was not a price list. In fact, the salesperson said the 05 Mustang was much different than the T Bird rage, since the mustang is a high volume production car, and that I could count on 3-4% over last year. I took this to mean 3-4% above what GT's sold for last year. Well, if they sold the GT last year at MSRP - - I would stand corrected. I am in the same position as you, of looking at List.
This is even more ironic, given the dealer had no idea about the '05 Mustang when I first approached them. They were clueless.
I thought I had an axe to grind, given that I have another ford that I take to the dealer, for service exclusively. I realize this is no reason for the dealers to give away the store; but adding the Mustang brings it to two concurrent cars. I like fords, but they are not light on service.
I cannot say I understand why a business would seek short term profits, at the risk of longer term loyalty. The profit in service over life of the cars would dwarf the short term profit. Why give customer a reason to switch? But 16 cars!
You simply have to think the dealers are not worried about ticking off the client base. They must be willing to accept the loss of a customer for charging list, because they believe they will gain a ticked off customer of the dealer across town. High volume, Zero sum game. Dealer wins.
It would be fun to see, and chart, what degree of price collusion will exist in various locales.
Having said that. With a hot product, shouldn't the dealer benefit some? There is another side. If I pay $1,000 over invoice, I would not feel screwed. That could be considered a win win.
I suggest that you go for the win win, and use your inner teenage rage ( in a very calm fashion), to press for a win win, whereby your family does not have to feel they are disrespected by a business they have shown loyalty to for 16 years! Amazing!
I had a similar reponse from my dealer. They did not let me lock down a price when I placed my order in June, since there was not a price list. In fact, the salesperson said the 05 Mustang was much different than the T Bird rage, since the mustang is a high volume production car, and that I could count on 3-4% over last year. I took this to mean 3-4% above what GT's sold for last year. Well, if they sold the GT last year at MSRP - - I would stand corrected. I am in the same position as you, of looking at List.
This is even more ironic, given the dealer had no idea about the '05 Mustang when I first approached them. They were clueless.
I thought I had an axe to grind, given that I have another ford that I take to the dealer, for service exclusively. I realize this is no reason for the dealers to give away the store; but adding the Mustang brings it to two concurrent cars. I like fords, but they are not light on service.
I cannot say I understand why a business would seek short term profits, at the risk of longer term loyalty. The profit in service over life of the cars would dwarf the short term profit. Why give customer a reason to switch? But 16 cars!
You simply have to think the dealers are not worried about ticking off the client base. They must be willing to accept the loss of a customer for charging list, because they believe they will gain a ticked off customer of the dealer across town. High volume, Zero sum game. Dealer wins.
It would be fun to see, and chart, what degree of price collusion will exist in various locales.
Having said that. With a hot product, shouldn't the dealer benefit some? There is another side. If I pay $1,000 over invoice, I would not feel screwed. That could be considered a win win.
I suggest that you go for the win win, and use your inner teenage rage ( in a very calm fashion), to press for a win win, whereby your family does not have to feel they are disrespected by a business they have shown loyalty to for 16 years! Amazing!
10/2/04, 01:14 PM
#6
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Are you dealing with the manager ? If not, I think you need to start doing that. I think he will realize how important this is to you, and consider your long history with them. Maybe they won't deal down to invoice, but perhaps they will move closer to it. I suspect you would be willing to meet somewhere in the middle ? Good luck 
10/2/04, 01:22 PM
#7
Since your father is such a good customer, maybe the two of you should talk to the dealer president and plead your case, as I am sure your loyalty should be rewarded.
Note to everyone that reads these horror stories, get EVERYTHING in writing.
When I go in to order my car, I will be bringing a printout of the email correspondance between myself and the sales dept, so they can't pull a "bait and switch"
Note to everyone that reads these horror stories, get EVERYTHING in writing.
When I go in to order my car, I will be bringing a printout of the email correspondance between myself and the sales dept, so they can't pull a "bait and switch"
10/2/04, 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by DJ07@October 2, 2004, 2:51 PM
If you could, leave your name, dealer's name, dealership name, location, phone numbers, as specific as possible, down to VINs and final prices if you will. (Or if you don't want to give out personal info, then jsut where you got your Mustang from) The more people I get showing they got it for $500 over invoice or less the better. I just want to prove to him others are doing it.
If you could, leave your name, dealer's name, dealership name, location, phone numbers, as specific as possible, down to VINs and final prices if you will. (Or if you don't want to give out personal info, then jsut where you got your Mustang from) The more people I get showing they got it for $500 over invoice or less the better. I just want to prove to him others are doing it.
10/2/04, 03:03 PM
#9
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DJ...
Walk from that dealer. Order another Stang from a dealer that will guarantee in writing your price. It will take 10 to 12 weeks to get a car in after ordering it, not next Spring. That is 2 1/2 to 3 months wait to save $2000.
You need to try autobytel.com, edmunds.com and cars.com. I submitted my info to four dealers last night, and got a call from one this morning offering $700 over invoice.
I am going to drive down next weekend, put $500 down, and get the deal in writing. I am looking at a January delivery.
Don't let the dealer take you to the bank because you want instant gratification. Patience.
My .02 cents
John
Walk from that dealer. Order another Stang from a dealer that will guarantee in writing your price. It will take 10 to 12 weeks to get a car in after ordering it, not next Spring. That is 2 1/2 to 3 months wait to save $2000.
You need to try autobytel.com, edmunds.com and cars.com. I submitted my info to four dealers last night, and got a call from one this morning offering $700 over invoice.
I am going to drive down next weekend, put $500 down, and get the deal in writing. I am looking at a January delivery.
Don't let the dealer take you to the bank because you want instant gratification. Patience.
My .02 cents
John
10/2/04, 03:09 PM
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The point is that if the dealer (or salesman) knows that you will pay the price, then you have no leverage. It is like diplomacy, there has to be consequences -- meaning in order to negotiate, you have to be prepared to walk away, and cost him.
Get the manager in, plead your case, explain to him the consequences (and mean them). I will leave. You will lose us as customers, now and for the future, we will tell everyone that you didn't honor your agreements or deal in good faith, we will go elsewhere for service, we will complain to ford and local news outlets about your gouging, I will post on all websites of what happened. Then follow through on all of it.
I know you really want the car. But in the grand scheme of things, is it really worth $2000+ for 4 months of car. In fact with interest and other things, you're talking well over $500+ a month for instant gratification (plus increasing those rates for the duration of the loan). And you're not figuring out opportunity costs of capital. If you put $2000 into savings, that would probably be a couple hundred thousand dollars (in savings) when you retired. If you learn to delay gratification, live at or below your means, and balance your desires for now, with returns in the future, you stand a good chance of living well and being happy/secure. If you don't and have to get the latest toy now, you will always live in debt and be frustrated. So this is a lot bigger choice than you think -- this is a major business lesson about life (if you choose to learn it).
Get the manager in, plead your case, explain to him the consequences (and mean them). I will leave. You will lose us as customers, now and for the future, we will tell everyone that you didn't honor your agreements or deal in good faith, we will go elsewhere for service, we will complain to ford and local news outlets about your gouging, I will post on all websites of what happened. Then follow through on all of it.
I know you really want the car. But in the grand scheme of things, is it really worth $2000+ for 4 months of car. In fact with interest and other things, you're talking well over $500+ a month for instant gratification (plus increasing those rates for the duration of the loan). And you're not figuring out opportunity costs of capital. If you put $2000 into savings, that would probably be a couple hundred thousand dollars (in savings) when you retired. If you learn to delay gratification, live at or below your means, and balance your desires for now, with returns in the future, you stand a good chance of living well and being happy/secure. If you don't and have to get the latest toy now, you will always live in debt and be frustrated. So this is a lot bigger choice than you think -- this is a major business lesson about life (if you choose to learn it).
10/2/04, 03:17 PM
#11
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We are dealing with the Fleet manager (Who has been our dealer personally for many years) the sales manager, (once again, has cut us many deals) and the general manager. (Who has agreed to the terms before)
The person who is giving us trouble is the General Manager, AKA the other two guy's boss.
My father said he's going to threaten to never buy another car from the dealership after my Mustang unless I get to deal. Its ridiculous. All the past income they've made from us, plus the future (which inlcuded my Dad possibly ordering a Freestyle today) for a lowsy $2000 some dollars? And they won't bend with us? That's crazy, it really is.
Another point: I cannot walk now. I need this car, ASAP, as I'm not going to drive it during the hard cold Chardon, Ohio, winter we have here. If I get it within the next two weeks I'll at least get to enjoy it into late November unti lthe big snowfalls start.
I mean today I should be telling everyone that my Mustang was built and its finally coming very soon. But instead I'm sulking and pissed off.
So, I guess to sum it up. I'll get the car, dealing or no dealing. But its their choice whether they want future loyalty from us.
The person who is giving us trouble is the General Manager, AKA the other two guy's boss.
My father said he's going to threaten to never buy another car from the dealership after my Mustang unless I get to deal. Its ridiculous. All the past income they've made from us, plus the future (which inlcuded my Dad possibly ordering a Freestyle today) for a lowsy $2000 some dollars? And they won't bend with us? That's crazy, it really is.
Another point: I cannot walk now. I need this car, ASAP, as I'm not going to drive it during the hard cold Chardon, Ohio, winter we have here. If I get it within the next two weeks I'll at least get to enjoy it into late November unti lthe big snowfalls start.
I mean today I should be telling everyone that my Mustang was built and its finally coming very soon. But instead I'm sulking and pissed off.
So, I guess to sum it up. I'll get the car, dealing or no dealing. But its their choice whether they want future loyalty from us.
10/2/04, 03:28 PM
#12
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Also, leasing is a possibility, which will make monthy payments a lot better for me. Right now, they are going to be $600.81 a month for a purchase. I can handle that with the amount I've saved for now ... but I gotta work my hiney off to get the rest.
10/2/04, 04:04 PM
#14
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WHAT is going on around these forums?? Everyone "understands" and "feels your pain", lol (not directed at you, DJ07, just a general rant since my Prozac ran out 
)...
IT'S A NEW CAR!!! Who care's if it's a Ford? Let the dealers have a month or two to make a buck. I am GLAD to pay MSRP and if you can't, you sit back and wait for people like me who CAN pay to buy the first models. It sounds cliche, but it's just a car -- you can wait a bit. Either way, I don't feel someone's pain when it comes to an automobile -- they're material objects and we could all make do with some ugly Chevy Aveo, but we have "images" to keep and want to be seen in better cars. If you can't have one for the store's price, get something else or wait till prices drop.
I mean this in a good way though it reads a bit harsh. Here's something to prove I do "feel your pain" in general, at least...
)...IT'S A NEW CAR!!! Who care's if it's a Ford? Let the dealers have a month or two to make a buck. I am GLAD to pay MSRP and if you can't, you sit back and wait for people like me who CAN pay to buy the first models. It sounds cliche, but it's just a car -- you can wait a bit. Either way, I don't feel someone's pain when it comes to an automobile -- they're material objects and we could all make do with some ugly Chevy Aveo, but we have "images" to keep and want to be seen in better cars. If you can't have one for the store's price, get something else or wait till prices drop.
I mean this in a good way though it reads a bit harsh. Here's something to prove I do "feel your pain" in general, at least...
10/2/04, 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Merlot@October 2, 2004, 3:52 PM
DJ WALK AWAY! :bang:
DJ WALK AWAY! :bang:
10/2/04, 04:29 PM
#16
DJ07
if you can't get the deal you want, just walk away for now. $2500 is a lot of money, and a lot of hard work to save up.
You are better off waiting for the spring to get it at a reasonable price, it would be cool to be the first one in town with the car, but at the same time not worth the additional cost IMO.
if you can't get the deal you want, just walk away for now. $2500 is a lot of money, and a lot of hard work to save up.
You are better off waiting for the spring to get it at a reasonable price, it would be cool to be the first one in town with the car, but at the same time not worth the additional cost IMO.
10/2/04, 04:45 PM
#17
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I agree with the others DJ...walk away...I know it is going to hurt like heck to delay getting your baby but think about all the work you'd have to put in to make up the difference!!
Have you tried getting a competitive quote from another local dealer for the same or similar deal??? I know you've dealt with this dealership in the past but if you get some other local to bite on a deal close to what you were expecting I imagine the jerk you're dealing with will change his tune just to beat the guy across town.
"Patience grasshopper!!" (sorry, ancient Kung Fu TV series flashback!)
For the jerk you're dealing with at the dealership...I suggest the KevinB Manuever...
Have you tried getting a competitive quote from another local dealer for the same or similar deal??? I know you've dealt with this dealership in the past but if you get some other local to bite on a deal close to what you were expecting I imagine the jerk you're dealing with will change his tune just to beat the guy across town.
"Patience grasshopper!!" (sorry, ancient Kung Fu TV series flashback!)
For the jerk you're dealing with at the dealership...I suggest the KevinB Manuever...
10/2/04, 05:17 PM
#18
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I would wait, and save some more cash on insurance as well. I don't know where chardon is but i ordered my car from up in Salem at Loudon Ford (they were very reasonable). At any rate, two years from now, will you think it was worth the $2000+ to drive it a couple months earlier? If so, then get it, if not then chill till christmas or a bit after.
10/2/04, 05:35 PM
#19
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Originally posted by dke@October 2, 2004, 3:12 PM
The point is that if the dealer (or salesman) knows that you will pay the price, then you have no leverage. It is like diplomacy, there has to be consequences -- meaning in order to negotiate, you have to be prepared to walk away, and cost him.
The point is that if the dealer (or salesman) knows that you will pay the price, then you have no leverage. It is like diplomacy, there has to be consequences -- meaning in order to negotiate, you have to be prepared to walk away, and cost him.
10/2/04, 05:37 PM
#20
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My dad used to tell me, "Never love some thing so hard with your heart you can't kick it off with your heel."
Believe me, man, I want mine too. But if the dealer will not negotiate, then it clearly is not the time or place for me to buy. I can go somewhere else, and I can exercise patience.
Ford will make hundreds of thousands of Mustangs. The inital sales heat will cool off. Don't let them take advantage of you by using that heat, and your desire to have it NOW, against you. If you give in to that, you have handed ALL your negotiating cards to the dealer.
YOU have the money for the car. YOU are in charge. DON'T accept a deal you don't like. You will get your Mustang. You know that. Do it on YOUR TERMS.
And good luck and happy Mustanging!
Believe me, man, I want mine too. But if the dealer will not negotiate, then it clearly is not the time or place for me to buy. I can go somewhere else, and I can exercise patience.
Ford will make hundreds of thousands of Mustangs. The inital sales heat will cool off. Don't let them take advantage of you by using that heat, and your desire to have it NOW, against you. If you give in to that, you have handed ALL your negotiating cards to the dealer.
YOU have the money for the car. YOU are in charge. DON'T accept a deal you don't like. You will get your Mustang. You know that. Do it on YOUR TERMS.
And good luck and happy Mustanging!