OBleedingMe

I do my very best NOT to support communism, so I wouldn't purchase a car made in China.

Ichi

Hey Jim. Bring on that fuedalism baby! I fancy carving out a modest principality for myself.
The oligarcs in DC are determined to drive us down. They are too caught up in their respective orthodoxies to be concerned with the "general welfare". I wonder how much longer the United States will remain intact? Is something like the breakup of the USSR possible here? Me thinks maybe.

Ichi

Back on topic.
I would react very negatively to a Bejing built Mustang! NFW!

MustangDan

It would NOT be a Mustang if it was made anywhere but here. It is not the companys fault it is our fault for not paying more for the "Made in USA" label. Yes I'm pointing the finger at you and me, please try harder to buy USA made and owned!

Example we would have been happy with the V6 but we are paying $5000 more for the v8 because it is made in USA. Yes I painfully know the trany is made France, but you can only do what you can do.

MUSTANG is a MUSTANG only if it is made here!

97svtgoin05gt

The problem with this theory is that even though doing this will cut the cost for GM to make cars by a HUGE percentage, GM will NOT I repeat NOT pass that savings on to the American consumer. They will instead keep the pricing the same and line their pockets with the abnormally high gross profit dollars. So, while they'll be chopping the heads off of their own employees by eliminating jobs, and killing their current US suppliers by decreasing significantly their ability to employ Americans, Americans will also in turn NOT be able to afford to buy the Chinese supplied GM cars.

Where is the good in this except for lining the pockets of GM and their stockholders?

I avoid Wal Mart at all costs. I also tell anyone I find that many of the products sold in Wal Mart are inferior, cheap junk and you don't pay anything less than 20% margin on anything sold in Wal Mart. Wal Mart actually has meetings every morning in their stores where employees (who make next to nothing by the way) boast about what GREAT MARGINS they are making on certain new products. 77% 58% and other rediculous percentages are common.

Think about this. Wal Mart claims they lower prices every day. If you read anything having to do with business, you'll have seen how Wal Mart consistantly posts amazing sales and gross profit gains. They are doing this by buying stuff in China for $.04 a piece and selling it to stupid us for $1.20. While many people think $1.20 for this item is a great deal, it's done 3 very important things:

1) It's given Wal Mart $1.16 gross profit (which they won't in turn issue pay raises for)

2) Cause plants that produce those products here in the US to close, cause we can't compete. Our same products costs $.65 vrs Chinas $.04.

3) Will cause Wal Mart to open yet ANOTHER super center with the intent of putting hard working people in other retail organizations out of business so they can eventually control the entire retail market.

There is nothing positive about this scenario. Many people will say "well, if I can get x product for $1.20 instead of $1.80 or $2.00, why wouldn't I??"

Tell that to our kids when there are no jobs that pay over $7 an hour.

::RANT OFF:::

:notnice:

97svtgoin05gt

Oh, and by the way. Ford better never think of doing this!!

jungleman

97SVTGOIN05GT you are absolutely right.

Going_Gray

If Ford decided to make pretty much any model in China, then I sure hope the Chinese can afford to buy them because I sure as heck would not. :usa:

Legion681

I would love to buy a Mustang even if it was built on planet Mars...
If I like it and I can buy it, I will buy it no matter where it was made...

A thing that makes me smile quite a bit is when I see someone saying that they wouldn't be buying a car if it was made outside the USA. I mean, two thumbs up for patriotism, but please remember that already now a great deal of goods you buy anywhere in the USA are made in China, Taiwan or other places like that and I wonder if these people that say they wouldn't buy a Mustang if it was made in China, do check on every item they buy if it has a sticker that says "Made in USA" and only buy that thing if it has the sticker: if so, I have respect for you. If not, forget about it, you can't single out the car industry for your crusade, you ought to do it against all other things that aren't made here...
Oh and has anyone thought that there are some foreing automakers that have plants in the USA, example: BMW -> Spartanburg, NC ? How about that ? Is it good that those jobs, using the BMW example, who could be useful in Germany, being BMW a German car maker, are instead in the USA ? If so, why complain if the same happens from an American car maker...
You gotta be fair in life...

Jack Frost

Legion, I'm buyin' what you're saying about most goods in the USA are already made overseas...but cars are different.

A car defines the character of a nation. Certain things are sacred.

And regarding those foreign makes that build plants in the US and 'wave the flag'....don't be fooled by those. They all build their plants in a locale after heavy tax concessions, and use almost no local content.

They are mere assembly plants.

For example, being Canadian, I know of a Honda plant here in Ontario, who's accords don't qualify under the US/Canada free trade agreement because of LOW local content...the cars are 'ASSEMBLED' in Canada, but they don't qualify as MADE in Canada cuz all the parts are shipped in from overseas and just slapped together.

Toyota will tell you this car and that car was the first Toyota to be entirely designed in the USA. Well, what does 'design' really mean? It could be as little a 3 punks in a room with some CAD stations trying to determine which colours will be on offer.

In the end, let me ask you this: if the net flow of money wasn't OUT of the US, and into JAPAN/GERMANY/WHEREEVER...do you think those foreign makes you be building those plants in the US?

I think not.

America is running massive current account deficits, and there is no recovery in sight for the declining dollar.

Just something to think about...from a neighbourly Canadian.

clintoris

you know.... I'd be furious to 2 reasons...

1. part the the point behind an American car is that it was built by Americans, supporting the American economy.

2. Chinese steel BLOWS. If the steel isn't American (and I guess I'll be ok with Canadian), it's not worth it's weight in manuer.

Try this perfect example out for yourselves.... have you ever replaced a brake rotor with one from the local auto parts store.... made in China, or Argentina or something like that? If you replaced 1, and not both, you'll know that it quickly destroys both rotors... Even though the foreign steel complies to all DOT specs, they are still garbage and too soft. If you replace them both with the same foreign steel, they'll wear ok, they'll just wear way too quicly.

The only steel I'll put on my car is US or Canadian.... as long as there's no French on it.

bludevil

from the perspective of an american that has grown up overseas (and therefore has an outsider's view), i'm driven up the wall by ignorant patriotism. if there was one blight that i could remove from the world, it would be nationalism.

so yes, i don't care where it's built, as long as it's what i want.

and one more thing:


Viva La France!

xr7g428

What do you people do for a living? Open your eyes. The argument that you are making when you say made in America is terribly over simplified. If you bought everything you need from US sources, you wouldn't have any money left to buy a Mustang. Are you really ready to compromise your life style to improve someone elses?

First, know that I am a manger at Rockford Corp. We are the last major manufacturer of car audio amplifiers and speakers in the US. You might know our brands Rockford Fosgate, Lightning Audio, MB Quart, Q-Logic, Hafler, NHT, And Install Edge. We still assemble every Rockford amp and woofer right here in the US. We have manufacturing plants in Michigan, Arizona, Oklahoma, and Germany.
I am not biased against manufacturing in the US, but I am realistic about what works.

Here is what does not work. Paying unskilled labor many times what it costs else where in the world. If you goal is to make it possible for a highschool graduate to do repetive labor and make $60K a year with full benefits, then good luck. The truth is that unskilled labor doesn't add value to the product. The unions extorted very high wages from the car manufacturers. These costs were passed on to consumers, UAW labor didn't ad value, but it did ad cost. As soon as consumers saw what they could buy where the labor cost was not artificially inflated, they switched brands in an instant.

Here is what does work. When we build an amplifer in Tempe, the unskilled line workers make about $10hr. We have reduced the labor input to about 15 minutes per amplifier. So each amp costs us about $2.50 to build in labor. Even if the labor is free in China, all we have to cover is the $2.50. Not a huge difference. But by the time that amp gets to the dealers shelf, that $2.50 has turned into $10 at retail. In order to reduce the labor cost we have had to develop aome pretty efficient methods of manufacuring. Those methods are developed by engineers and accountants and programmers and a bunch of other highly educated folks that do make $60K a year. What it means is that we are very productive. Not many people produce a lot of goods. And every year we have to do it even better.

Where is stuff made? For our amplifiers, the aluminum is mined in south america, refined in Oregon, cast in Thailand. The copper comes from Mexico, is stranded and woven into wire in China, insulated with plastic made from oil that comes from Saudi Arabia. Because we use so many, our MOSFET's are custom made for us by Fairchild, last time I looked, in Ireland. but all of this stuff was designed and engineered by us here in Tempe, Arizona. I could go on and on.

The growth in our business is not in the US. it is in Europe, and China. Today we are exporting product from the US, and building in some local markets. All of the decisions about where to build will be based on what we have to do to compete. If we can lower our cost, we will invest the money in the product, or in the marketing, or in what ever will give us the best chance for survival. That's right survival.

The idea that companies flourish on the backs of the workers misfortune is BS. Companies that fail to do what the market dictates, die. Then everybody goes home.

And a last final point: who is evil Walmart? IT is the stockholders. They do not each get a sack of money if Walmart does well. They give their money to the managers at Walmart with the expectation that they will be rewarded by the managers making the company more valuable. If you have an IRA or a 401K then you are almost certainly a part of IT.

The moral of the story: learn how to do something that ads value.

Conundrum

If it was made in China, it is not a Mustang.
Same as the Australian Holden does not make a real GTO.
I wouldn't have to be a "pro American" consumer if I could count on my government to make sure we Americans had a level international playing field, but, unfortunately, our government sold out to the highest foreign bidders years ago. :notnice:

fumaca

Attached is an article from today's CNN Money that adds some perspective to this thread.

"Trade gap: made in the USA
Study: About one third of trade gap is due to imports from foreign-based units of U.S. companies.
April 11, 2005: 1:59 PM EDT
By Chris Isidore, CNN/Money senior writer

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - U.S. companies looking for the source of much of the nation's trade gap need only look in the mirror.
A study by the McKinsey Global Institute, a think tank arm of the business consultant firm McKinsey & Co., finds that about one-third of the nation's current account deficit would disappear if we eliminate the trade with the foreign operations of U.S. companies, according to the group. The current account deficit is a broad measure of trade and capital flows between nations.

"A large and growing share of the deficit simply reflects the international reach -- and success -- of the strongest US companies," said the recently published study. "An automaker importing cars assembled in Mexico, for example, or a bank using call centers in India ...may add to the nation's trade imbalance, but they also create significant value for U.S. customers, companies and shareholders."
The trade deficit will get new attention Tuesday when the Commerce Department releases its monthly trade report. Economists surveyed by both Briefing.com and Reuters have a consensus forecast for a $59 billion trade gap for February, up from $58.3 billion in January. But one third of the 21 economists surveyed by Reuters expect the gap to top the $59.4 billion figure from November, the current record.

The McKinsey study argues that the trade gap is overstated, and that the government should change the way it measures trade, taking an ownership-based view of trade and categorizing companies by where they are owned rather than by where goods are produced.

"Today's debate over the U.S. current-account deficit misses the mark," said the study. "Focusing on (U.S. companies' foreign operations') activities is unhelpful and distracts attention from fiscal irresponsibility in Washington—which poses a far bigger threat to the future economic health of the United States."

But other trade experts argue that where the goods or services are produced does matter for the nation's economic health, and the well-being of its citizens.

"If an activity moves abroad and becomes an import, all that labor is lost," argues University of Maryland Professor Peter Morici, one of those forecasting a record trade deficit report Tuesday. "It really doesn't matter very much who owns the plant that makes the imports."
He argues the shift of work to overseas operations weakens the U.S. labor market, depressing earnings, and discouraging those with skills in short supply in the global economy from coming here to produce more wealth.

"It doesn't matter who owns the assets. You can get capital to build a plant anywhere. What matters is where the plant is," said Morici.
Jay Bryson, global economist for Wachovia Securities, agrees with the McKinsey study that the U.S. economy is better off in the long run due to investment in overseas operations by U.S. companies.

"It's good for efficiency and gains in the economy," he said.
But he disagrees that the government reports are looking at trade from the wrong perspective. He said where the goods or services are produced is still the most important way to look at trade for the purpose of estimating what it means for the nations' economic growth, as well as the value of its currency. That's why gross domestic product, which measures the value of all goods and services produced in the United States, is the broad reading of the nation's economic activity, not gross national product, which measures the activity of U.S.-owned operations.
GNP is still measured but virtually ignored by economists.

"To extent that we are buying things from abroad that we used to buy here, income isn't going to be as great here," he said. "That trade gap needs to be financed and that financing needs to come from abroad."
Ashraf Laidi, the chief currency analyst for MG Financial Group, also agrees that the McKinsey study highlights something important that is often lost in the overall trade figures. But he said even looking at trade from the perspective they suggest shows that there is a widening trade gap for the United States.

"They put their finger on something," he said. "But at the end of the day you are seeing imports growing to one-and-a-half times greater than exports, and the trend is continuing."

adrenalin

Will they be able to get more HP out of the engine? If so then I'd have no problem with it. Still not sure why the 4.6l V8 is only 300hp while several v6 imports are over 300hp.

05WindveilGT

That is a big slap in the face for American car buyers, heck the subs are made in China in our stangs, so why not the whole thing. to those Ford engineers.

Matt

Webba

Wow what a great time it would be if we could all get together, have a few beers, and discuss our ideas on this. I agree with some of what has been said. Also being in manufacturing I have a little different take than you XR7. the IT is some of the board of directors, not just the shareholders. The board makes very large sums of money, as well as stockholders. Look at some of the insane "severance packages" given out to CEO's when they are canned or retire. It is in the news everyday. The amounts are staggering and needless. And as for paying the high school grad insane money, I do agree with that. But the reason they are paid that is due to the lack of people wanting to work for a living. We have this mentality of getting something for nothing in this country and it gets worse everyday. Kids are given so much more growing up than when alot of us were kids. It gets taken for granted. Companies give out signing bonuses just for starting with a company. People expect just because you have worked someplace for so long you are entitled to get a raise or bonus instead of asking themselves if they can do more and become more valueable. They dont care whether their employer is making money as long as they are. heck the government wants to raise minimum wages again. What ever happened to paying your dues and bettering yourself and being rewarded for it by getting a raise or getting a better job? Go to McD's and try and get service. Most of the people could care less about you, your order, or whether it is right or not. But hey lets raise minimum wage. The people worht a darn will get educated or work harder and get paid more. Those that dont care will get what they deserve...sh*t. And all of us who buy at Walmart and stores like them are to blame for US jobs lost. We hold the power. It is important to make things in your country. We are hated in this world by alot of nations, and maybe rightly so in some cases, but they are the first ones ot have their hand out from us when a natural disaster hits. We pay out a staggering amount of money to charities and such and get crapped on in return. All I ask is that these other countries work under the same restrictions...i.e. employee insurance, working conditions, no child labor, workers comp, etc...as us in the US and we would see who does the best job. Companies like Walmart can never save enough. I am currently involved with a project where one of the end use customers is Wal mart. Use of this technology is going to save them upwards of 8 billion dollars next year! And guess what they want?? They want the technology even cheaper! It is already in the works to manufacture it in Mexico, and within a year from this summer in China. And the technology will eliminate jobs at the stores and the suppliers of products by reducing staff normally needed for inventory control. 8 billion dollars still isnt enough for the vultures. Anyway I have ranted enough. Buy whatever you can that is made in your respective country. And no I wouldnt buy a mustang made in China. Id walk first.

ekessler507

I work for a fortune 50 company and globalization is a primary initiative. While deflationary costs can be realized with relative ease, the effects on quality are astounding. Rather than being able to bring the China sources up to US standards of quality, the impression is that close enough is good enough and the balance can be worked over time.

EK

lelle106

Kina?

No problem, maybe we get some quality then? But it's a problem if all jobs goas to Kina. We have the some problem here in Sweden.