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It's good to hear a lot less visible metal showed up in the oil this time. Microscopic iron is higher here, but like you noted, this oil run was a lot longer. Normal accumulation doesn't totally explain away all this steel wear though, since we saw in the 9/23/22 sample that this engine is capable of producing less wear. Ideally interstate miles would lead to less steel wear as well, since it's some of the gentlest use an engine can see. Though the engine is still running smoothly, quiet as ever, we suggest sticking to this interval or shorter to monitor trends.
Obviously the "quiet as ever" was something I'd put on the slip before the engine tick developed a couple weeks ago. Hindsight being what it is, this could've been a head's up if the tick hadn't started so soon after I sent the sample in.
Last edited by Cavero; 9/25/23 at 04:32 PM.
Reason: added picture
A Tablespoon of Cavero's Used Engine Oil as a Vitamin Supplement Would Either Put Lead in Your Pencil or Kill You Not Sure Which it! If it Didn't Kill You I would Bet You Would Get Premium Results For Keeping Regular! SLICK! Starting to Wonder What Exactly That Castor Oil the Mom's Gave Us As Kids Really Was!
No problem. I have no issues with mobil one...but I see some shops push amsoil constantly mostly because they are dealers and want to sell it but in my experience it's the oil change intervals that matter most. My first fox was a '88 LX 5.0 I bought from the original owner with 123K on it and the only thing he was religous about was oil changes every 2800 miles....I continued to change the oil religously while beating on the car like it owed me rent. at 320K miles and 2 AOD transmissions I blew a head gasket which I think may have been my fault for over torquing the intake...maybe not but I pulled the engine apart with intent to rebuild. I had a friend who was a machinist at a machine shop helping me and he measured the bore, pistons and even the oil pump and everything was perfect and in spec...he even said I could reuse the oil pump...I argued that being that it had over 300K on it and his response was "Your money"...I just couldn't put it back in the engine. Bearings were perfect as well...cross hatches in the cylinder walls. I balanced it, same pistons, new ring and bearings and I put another 140K on it before selling it. On the other end of the spectrum I have a friend with an 89 Convertible he bought new who brought me his car for a rebuild..over 300K but he wasn't good with the oil changes like I had been...I had to bore it .020 and I threw away everything else as it was worn and just put in better parts.
So the key is oil changes....even on my S550 I don't buy into the 5000 mile intervals...it's 3K for every oil change, my 7.3 Powerstroke gets the same. It's always cheaper to do frequent oil changes than build a new engine. I do have favorites when it comes to oil...I use Driven in my diesel and older Mustangs and I used Motorcraft synthetic blend in the S550, mobil 1 in my mercedes. I recently was talking to old race team guys from Ford when I was in Detroit for the Motor City Fox Fest and one of those guys who was an engineer told us how he switched Ford to Mobil one in their race program with the SVOs back in the day...he said he even puts a very thin weight into the power steering pump and it never would wear anything out....that was interesting.
I've always been the same way, religiously changing at 3K even when my original dealer told me I could go 5K with synthetic. It has me wondering what that other local garage used when I took it to them for the 1 or 2 oil changes I had them do (the last they did was where I found the metal in the oil)
Originally Posted by svopaul
Only 25K on those cams I can't see any valid reason why the lobe would get that kind of damage unless it was A: a defect; B: the follower failed and the roller stopped moving and just ground the cam lobe.
I would've thought B since Comp Cams is a pretty reputable company, but was wondering if you'd see something more catastrophic.
Originally Posted by svopaul
You could put stock cams back in but you do NOT need to remove the plenum, intake or throttle body...you would have to adjust the tune though. Certainly cheaper to retune it than to give up all the go fast parts you installed. Labor is intensive on this fix....if there is no damage on the other camshaft maybe you could get one new cam from the manufacturer...still labor intensive but 1 cam would be cheaper than a pair if they would accomodate you.
I still have all the original parts, so it'd be free to go back (labor's built in to the work they were doing anyway). I might see about taking the driver's side valve cover off this weekend to get a peek on that side. The shop said they didn't bother because they expected it to be the same on both sides based on what they were seeing and didn't want to have to charge me the labor to do it.
I wouldn't expect it to be the same on both sides unless it was a bad batch of cam cores they used...If you caught it right when you heard the noise then there is a good chance it's that one lobe and that's it. Did you replace the followers with the new cams when you did it or use the originals? It's common to reuse them since they are rollers.
I drove it to work one or two days a week for 2 weeks once the ticking started, not sure if that's soon enough? (~ 12 mile commute one way). Nope, pretty sure they kept the original followers (definitely didn't charge me for it - so pretty much sure they're original).
Didn't get the chance to pull the valve cover this weekend, will try to get to it during the week.
Pic size seems excessive here. Anyway--- behold! my high dollar magnetic oil filter! I stuck some neodymmium magnets on there. I was looking on Amazon and the oil filter wraps were nothing more than these in a convenient sleeve. I also got a magnetic drain plug (not worth a pic)
I gave my shop a quick bump, they mentioned the options we'd talked about again, but conspicuously absent was the forged rebuild. Right now I'm looking at:
Rebuild w/ new comp camps
forged rebuild for supercharger (might be looking at the blower equivalent of these, I think it's 127450's)
Gen 3 Coyote swap. Lots to research here, everything from electronics to whether my old headers would line up.
Voodoo swap...? J/k I hear the vibration's pretty bad
Finally got the quote back for the rebuild, the number's right in line with where I thought it'd be (their top of the head figure + inflation). Strongly leaning this way. They'd get started on it in January, so I might have the car back by end of March/April timeframe. Wanted to get a couple opinions though:
Looking at Comp Cams 127450's since the ultimate plan is to put a blower on it. Bad idea if I'm staying N/A until next year (when I recoup the funds to for a blower)? They're running a follow up quote to do a blower at the same time but I'm thinking worst case if it's out of my budget to do the whole shebang this year.
Should I keep driving the car like it is for the time being? (next month or so).
Rebuild quote will include any parts that need replacing (like followers), as well as Manley forged pistons & rods, all ARP studs/bolts, new Melling Oil Pump, Cloyes Complete Timing Chain and Gear Set, MMR Billet Reluctor Wheel & Crank Gear. Anything that sticks out as missing?
Finally got the quote back for the rebuild, the number's right in line with where I thought it'd be (their top of the head figure + inflation). Strongly leaning this way. They'd get started on it in January, so I might have the car back by end of March/April timeframe. Wanted to get a couple opinions though:
Looking at Comp Cams 127450's since the ultimate plan is to put a blower on it. Bad idea if I'm staying N/A until next year (when I recoup the funds to for a blower)? They're running a follow up quote to do a blower at the same time but I'm thinking worst case if it's out of my budget to do the whole shebang this year.
If you plan to go with a blower then definitely go ahead and do the cams in preperation. It should be cheaper on your labor to do the blower at the same time so consider that in your decision...maybe ask them what the labor would be later....this may be significant enough to justify taking out a loan to get it done sooner than later.
Should I keep driving the car like it is for the time being? (next month or so).
It would be safe to not drive it...more metal running through the engine may cost you more money later....the metal could score the crankshaft and it would damage your heads considering that there are no bearings for the camshafts to ride in, the cams ride in the aluminum of the head itself. Worse case if something fails completley and leads to a dropped valve for example, that could end up cracking the block. I once had a customer who did his own cam swap including springs and he didn't get a keeper locked in properly so it dropped a valve and when the piston compressed the valve it cracked the block.
Rebuild quote will include any parts that need replacing (like followers), as well as Manley forged pistons & rods, all ARP studs/bolts, new Melling Oil Pump, Cloyes Complete Timing Chain and Gear Set, MMR Billet Reluctor Wheel & Crank Gear. Anything that sticks out as missing?
Forged pistons are a must if you plan to go with a blower. If they haven't planned it already or don't do this as a standard with their builds then I would strongly suggest having the rotating assembly balanced. I personally don't build an engine without balancing it. They are withing a certain spec from the factory but I prefer to go further and do a better job by balancing the rotating assembly to better specs than the factory does. This process makes sure the pistons each weigh the same, rods weigh the same and then it's all assembled and spun with the crankshaft and they drill or add weight to the crankshaft.
Forged pistons are a must if you plan to go with a blower. If they haven't planned it already or don't do this as a standard with their builds then I would strongly suggest having the rotating assembly balanced. I personally don't build an engine without balancing it. They are withing a certain spec from the factory but I prefer to go further and do a better job by balancing the rotating assembly to better specs than the factory does. This process makes sure the pistons each weigh the same, rods weigh the same and then it's all assembled and spun with the crankshaft and they drill or add weight to the crankshaft.
Not necessarily! The stock internals can safely handle up to 450RWHP and 419 Ft Lbs. torque when turned properly on a supercharged application... Both Saleen and Edelbrock PD blowers were designed to run on 3v stock internals... Once going beyond 450RWHP is when it is recommended to upgrade to forged internals. I've been running my 06 GT with the Saleen VI blower with 3.6" pulley that made 420RWHP on the dyno and have not experienced any negative issues whatsoever in over 10 years.
Not necessarily! The stock internals can safely handle up to 450RWHP and 419 Ft Lbs. torque when turned properly on a supercharged application... Both Saleen and Edelbrock PD blowers were designed to run on 3v stock internals... Once going beyond 450RWHP is when it is recommended to upgrade to forged internals. I've been running my 06 GT with the Saleen VI blower with 3.6" pulley that made 420RWHP on the dyno and have not experienced any negative issues whatsoever in over 10 years.
Of course they made those kits for stock internals, it's far easier to market and sell a bolt on kit rather than one that requires a built engine....it's when people turn them up that it becomes a problem and if you are building something from scratch then why not upgrade, I've never met anyone who said "I realy wish I hadn't put forged pistons in this engine"...now if it's stock and you don't have to go into it at all to rebuild then sure...run the stock internals and get a safe tune.
The key there is "when tuned properly"....the reason I suggest forged pistons is simply because that's a huge variable and I've found more times than not that a "faulty tuner valve" has caused a failure. The Forged pistons give a bit of a buffer to help guard against that and if you are buying pistons anyway then why not upgrade there? I don't think the crank and rods are going to be an issue but the pistons are the first to go. I have a 2019 Ecoboost Mustang here right now...built to be turbocharged with only an intercooler, exhaust and cold air kit...yet the #4 piston and rod vaporized and ended up in a pile of parts in the oil pan...Why? it was tuned and since those three parts alone can't cause this failure, common sense deduction points to the tune...did I mentioned the car has less than 20K miles on it? Forged pistons don't guarantee anything though....a few years back I had a 2004 Cobra towed in that was the victim of a bad tune...the tuner chased the wrong problem and the car went lean and melted a piston. For every GOOD tuner out there, there are probably 4 bad or questionable ones. SO im my professional experience dealing with these cars daily, I'd rather see someone build with better parts if they are rebuilding completely and have a better margin of safety than miss out and end up with a problem. Tuners get a free pass because they are never responsible for blowing up your car...you sign that waiver before getting on the dyno so there isn't anything holding someone's feet to the fire other than their reputation and they can always bend the truth to make it look like it's your fault the car blew up when you aren't around to share your side.
some years back I put a turbo kit on a 2005 Mustang for a customer...our first pull on the dyno was 510RWHP...we dialed that back to 485 on stock internals and it lasted until we were testing out the new C&L intake and he needed a coil upgrade but raced someone before getting the new coils in and hurt a piston. He owned up to that and then built a 5.0 stroker with forged pistons.
Of course they made those kits for stock internals, it's far easier to market and sell a bolt on kit rather than one that requires a built engine....it's when people turn them up that it becomes a problem and if you are building something from scratch then why not upgrade, I've never met anyone who said "I realy wish I hadn't put forged pistons in this engine"...now if it's stock and you don't have to go into it at all to rebuild then sure...run the stock internals and get a safe tune.
The key there is "when tuned properly"....the reason I suggest forged pistons is simply because that's a huge variable and I've found more times than not that a "faulty tuner valve" has caused a failure. The Forged pistons give a bit of a buffer to help guard against that and if you are buying pistons anyway then why not upgrade there? I don't think the crank and rods are going to be an issue but the pistons are the first to go. I have a 2019 Ecoboost Mustang here right now...built to be turbocharged with only an intercooler, exhaust and cold air kit...yet the #4 piston and rod vaporized and ended up in a pile of parts in the oil pan...Why? it was tuned and since those three parts alone can't cause this failure, common sense deduction points to the tune...did I mentioned the car has less than 20K miles on it? Forged pistons don't guarantee anything though....a few years back I had a 2004 Cobra towed in that was the victim of a bad tune...the tuner chased the wrong problem and the car went lean and melted a piston. For every GOOD tuner out there, there are probably 4 bad or questionable ones. SO im my professional experience dealing with these cars daily, I'd rather see someone build with better parts if they are rebuilding completely and have a better margin of safety than miss out and end up with a problem. Tuners get a free pass because they are never responsible for blowing up your car...you sign that waiver before getting on the dyno so there isn't anything holding someone's feet to the fire other than their reputation and they can always bend the truth to make it look like it's your fault the car blew up when you aren't around to share your side.
some years back I put a turbo kit on a 2005 Mustang for a customer...our first pull on the dyno was 510RWHP...we dialed that back to 485 on stock internals and it lasted until we were testing out the new C&L intake and he needed a coil upgrade but raced someone before getting the new coils in and hurt a piston. He owned up to that and then built a 5.0 stroker with forged pistons.
Like you said, the key is making certain the tune is properly dialed-in and is tuned by a reputable tuning specialist/shop... I made certain after performing extensive research and in the end, I went with JDM engineering following a few years with Brenspeed... I would also recommend for anyone who intends on taking their car to the track for either competition or racing applications, to most definitely upgrade to forged pistons and rods when running any type of forced induction regardless of how accurate the tune is properly dialed-in for additional insurance and peace of mind... But if the vehicle is only used for non-racing/street use applications, then I don't see any reason for not sticking with the stock internals, providing once again the tune is properly dialed-in and is tuned properly by a reputable tuning specialist/center.
Sorry been kinda silent on this for the last month. Had been going back and forth w/ the shop on quotes and finally settled on it. Going w/ the forged rebuild w/ Comp Cams 127450's (blower cams) while staying N/A this year. Shop tells me the cam will run fine, it might have a little more chop than the 127400's but it'll still be just as driveable and will even give me a little more power w/ the extra lift and duration.
I was really close to going all-in and getting the Vortech this year but price was a little more than I was willing to do all at once. I'm going to keep saving and come back at it next year. Plus that gives me more time to study up on superchargers anyway.
9/25/23, 04:26 PM
If it Didn't Kill You I would Bet You Would Get Premium Results For Keeping Regular! SLICK! 
Starting to Wonder What Exactly That Castor Oil the Mom's Gave Us As Kids Really Was!
ROFLMFAO! 
