You guys crack me up

I heard they are using the "black box" to track us, then they send the black helicopters
to take you out using the governments weather machine.

To disable the black box you simply need one of these

 

Well this is really veering off topic and turning into a privacy thread. It’s true people can spy on your PC, but only if you connect to the internet. They are in a sense breaking in to your PC to spy on you, so it’s not the same thing as the black box. Also, if you know what you are doing on the net you can cover your tracks extremely well. Being an avid copyright infringer, I’ve always been interested in keeping the RIAA out of my PC.

Just think if your next computer came with a black box like device hardwired within, would you be happy? Wouldn’t it feel like you are using the office computer all the time? Imagine if at work they installed a CCTV camera right above your desk, how would that feel like? Imagine that you’re 16 and your parents install one of those ”car nanny” devices in your car, would you be happy about it? Now the “MAN” is spying on all our cars, as adults!

I really can’t understand the mindset of people who defend these technological intrusions into our daily lives, but nonetheless I respect their opinion. However the few people who keep referring to the mind control satellites are just plain retarded. What the heck does that have anything to do with the topic? You are attempting to marginalize the argument by grouping it with leftfield conspiracy theorist propaganda. The black box in your car is a reality, not a conspiracy theory. There must be good reasons why some European countries ban this technology.

 

If you're all concerned about EDR's in your car - cell phones have GPS tracking that ostensibly allows law enforcement/emergency responders to better be able to find your location. IIRC, the phone doesn't even have to be on. RFID's are another thing... LOL, okay better put my lead-lined tin foil hat on!

 

You are mostly correct about the cell phones and RFID's. But again, only legislation can save us from these intrusions. Cell phones don't actually have a GPS device onboard (except the Nokia N95). Authorities triangulate the source of your phone signal from nearby transmission towers. If your phone is off (remove battery in some models to completely switch off) there is no method of locating you through a cell phone. As for RFID’s, well thankfully legislation is moving swiftly to protect our rights. If you purchase an RFID tagged item, they must deactivate the RFID before you leave the store. Also plans to fit money and drivers licenses with RFID have been defeated through legislation and legal actions.

Lastly, it doesn’t support or defeat the argument to find other examples of how people are spied on. It doesn’t make it OK to spy on my car because you also spy on my phone. The logic in that is a little twisted.

 

Man, the pilots of commercial airliners have no privacy. They are being monitored in all their inputs, as well as voice and flight data. Their black box records the last 30 minutes!! They should really just remove those too, since we don't want the pilots privacy to be infringed upon.

 

Man come on, how does that argument follow. The key word here is "commercial". A private plane doesn't require a black box.

 

So a pilot f's up and kills 100 people and everyone has the right to look at his last 30 minutes in minute detail. I f-up and run my mustang into a van packed with a family and kill 5 others and nobody should have the right to examine my last 15 seconds to see if I was on the brakes or on the gas?

 

Yes, thats correct. To use the plane analogy again, when Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle crashed his plane into a highrise in New York's Upper East Side, he didn't have a black box, and we couldn't examine his last 30 mins.

Commercial vehicles are a completly different animal, and privacy laws and other regulations are radically different.

 

The black box is a downloadable program that the police and government traffic safety agenices use to determine what you were doing or not doing during before a collision. Such items determine are.. .was the radio on...and at what level? When were the brakes applied? Speed at time of collision? When did the air bags deploy? The black box is an investigative tool the can either work for or against the driver. A lot of information gathered from black box applications is forwarded to the NTSA and Canadian Traffic Associations to better understanding the driving habits of the public. Sometimes Big Brother is actually looking out for our interests.

 

Very interesting thread. There have been several discussions of the "black boxes" over the years on the various forums, most following the same format: someone doesn't like the invasion of privacy and other people hating on him for not being a sheeple. Personally I don't like the concept of a data recorder in private vehicles, but I don't see it being enough of a problem to be worried about YET. But that's just me; if you want to rip yours out, more power to you. Sad thing is, this sort of stuff is only going to get worse. Check out the UK for instance, the most heavily surveilled soceity on the planet: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6108496.stm

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams

 

Here here... Thats profound.

 

Couldn't you just put a wire pyramid over the computer?? Heck, we could get billet ones made up

 

Well they didn't need a black box to tell everyone Lidle and Kennedy were terrible pilots

 

I can't imagine a dumber thing to worry about then black boxes in cars

 

theedge67,

It is opinions and attitudes like yours that often remind me of a quote from
a far wiser man than either of us...

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".

Benjamin Franklin
Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

To this day it still rings so true.

Freedom is important. Without it we are nothing but subjects, not private citizens. But when they take away our essential liberties ever so slowly ( usually under the common guise of "safety" ) most people dont even take notice. People pay more attention to their favorite sports teams or what night that primetime TV show comes on than they do their own rights being slowly taken away.

SAFETY, it is for the children!

Who in their right mind would want to endanger a child?

It is a great mantra they have incorporated into their agenda isn't it?

There is no way to fight it!! But you need to stand up to those who are trying to take away your essential liberties in exchange for safety.

There is no Freedom in a perfectly safe society... and that is what they want! How better a system to monitor your subjects ?

LB

 

If you are that paranoid, or are involved in illegal activity that you feel would at some point be exposed by a recorder that records vehicle parameters moments before a major impact (sorry, it isn't used for speeding, warranty rejection, etc), then buy a friggin bicycle.

If you knew the history of the progression of the data recorder it is more to protect them (auto makers, insurance companys) from us, than for some agency to "get you". They are rarely used as most "accidents" can be investigated by the details at the scene, witnesses, etc. However, when there are claims that don't add up, investigators are allowed to recover the details of the data recorder. Search for the story on Jerome Brown and his ZR-1 Corvette to see a real world case.

I am happy they are installing them. It will finally make *** clowns own up to their actions rather than do something stupid and sue the auto maker or insurance company and drive my costs up. No longer can they blame the car, someone else, or "the deer" when they were driving well over their head. If you don't like not being covered for such actions then don't sign up for insurance. Post a bond to cover your legal requirements to protect your fellow citizen from you and bare the burden of the rest. Why should insurance companys, which is past on to your fellow citizen, have to pay when you CHOOSE to drive like a clown?

If auto makers want to use it to deny warranties, so be it. You have the FREEDOM to read the warranty clause before buying. Why should a manufacturer pay your sponsorship, which increases the cost of vehicles for your fellow citizen, when you CHOOSE to use a street car to play John Force or Michael Schumacher?

If people "did the right thing" these devices would not be needed. Judging by the admission of the thread starter

I'd say he is more interested in hiding shady behavior than he is with protecting personal privacy. I don't want to pay higher vehicle prices or insurance premiums due to your lack of character.

Since you like quotes though, here is one for you

Bottom line is you DO have choices to not buy vehicles with these devices, not have insurance from companys that utilize these devices, or to simply live within the parameters set forth in the documents you CHOOSE to sign.

privacy != hiding criminal behavior/lies

 

Yup, the primary reason it is there is to prevent a lawsuit against a manufacturer for claim about a safety device not working, NOBODY uses the information in mainstream traffic accidents.

someone falls asleep at the wheel, goes in a ditch at 80mph and gets ejected because they weren't wearing a belt-hey lets sue Ford for $60 million!

 

I love when people use the 200 year old quotes on a modern issue. I think someone quoted the Earth was flat once too

My favorite by him is

Please define how driving a car is an essential liberty.

 

These things are part of the airbag system of your car. The airbag is always monitoring several seconds (usually about 5) worth of information in several parameters so that it can determine whether there is a change in velocity or direction such that the airbag needs to be deployed. Part of the information is whether you were applying the brakes or the gas at the time of the accident, as this information helps the car determine whether you are accelerating or decelerating.

If you get in an accident that triggers the airbag, the inforamtion is retained. if there is no triggering event, there is no information retained.

For standard cars with only front airbags, this means that information is only saved (by a triggering event) if someone hits the front of your car or you hit someone else with the front of your car with enough force to trigger the airbags (I think it usually requires a difference in speed of about 25 mphs). If someone runs into the rear of your car or the side of your car (assuming no side airbags), the front airbags won't deploy (no trigering event) and no info is retained.

Most ax reconstructionists, the good ones at least, have the equipment to download the info from your car, but it requires linking up with a computer, etc.

 

Quick, someone call the FBI, we have a guy who downloads music over here...
As I mentioned before, where I live and drive my Mustang no one knows what the black box is or even how to access it. Its not to cover up any criminal behaviour. Also the highways are limitless like the Autobahn, so its not to avoid speeding prosecutions either. My dealer is a personal friend of mine and I cannot imagine ever having my warranty revoked. Its just a matter of principal. Being a person with such a sound moral fiber and strong character you should understand that.