I think I started trouble
10/6/04, 08:40 PM
#1
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Here is the story. My dealer wouldn't budge of MSRP. So I found a dealer out of town that would, $1000 (canadian) over invoice. My dealer called me back and I told him this. He asked if I had it in writing, so I faxed him a copy. The general manager saw it and freaked. Now the owner of the dealership is pissed after finding out. He is mad that they lost a customer ( I bought a 2004 Sport Trac from them already). I think he is contacting Ford of Canada to find out why other dealerships are doing this because he feels it is unfair.
I think I have kicked a hornets nest. I don't care, because I have a contract in writing!!
I think I have kicked a hornets nest. I don't care, because I have a contract in writing!!
10/6/04, 08:43 PM
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Let him phone FORD of Canada.They'll tell him the same thing they told one of our forum members who called to report the dealer didn't order the car he put a deposit on........tough luck charlie!
10/6/04, 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by VillianousBlak@October 6, 2004, 9:12 PM
This should be sticky so when everyone ask what to do about a stubborn dealer they can be forwarded here.
This should be sticky so when everyone ask what to do about a stubborn dealer they can be forwarded here.
congrats on finding a better deal cop on my back. i'd stir up many hornets nests for a good deal.
10/6/04, 09:30 PM
#7
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Originally posted by cop on my back@October 6, 2004, 9:43 PM
Here is the story. My dealer wouldn't budge of MSRP. So I found a dealer out of town that would, $1000 (canadian) over invoice. My dealer called me back and I told him this. He asked if I had it in writing, so I faxed him a copy. The general manager saw it and freaked. Now the owner of the dealership is pissed after finding out. He is mad that they lost a customer ( I bought a 2004 Sport Trac from them already). I think he is contacting Ford of Canada to find out why other dealerships are doing this because he feels it is unfair.
I think I have kicked a hornets nest. I don't care, because I have a contract in writing!!
Here is the story. My dealer wouldn't budge of MSRP. So I found a dealer out of town that would, $1000 (canadian) over invoice. My dealer called me back and I told him this. He asked if I had it in writing, so I faxed him a copy. The general manager saw it and freaked. Now the owner of the dealership is pissed after finding out. He is mad that they lost a customer ( I bought a 2004 Sport Trac from them already). I think he is contacting Ford of Canada to find out why other dealerships are doing this because he feels it is unfair.
I think I have kicked a hornets nest. I don't care, because I have a contract in writing!!
wn3d:
10/7/04, 12:20 AM
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Cop:
Did john give you any idea when they might get a car in the showroom to look over?
Also when you made up your deal,did you happen to find out what paperwork cost would be? I ask this because in past purchases i normally try and get them to drop that all togeather or i walk away. I have had some dealerships try and get upwards of $250 which i just laugh at....
Did john give you any idea when they might get a car in the showroom to look over?
Also when you made up your deal,did you happen to find out what paperwork cost would be? I ask this because in past purchases i normally try and get them to drop that all togeather or i walk away. I have had some dealerships try and get upwards of $250 which i just laugh at....
10/7/04, 01:51 AM
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Any dealer trying to screw over a current customer and enthusiast, who probably knows more about the car than the whole dealership, deserves to the lose the sale and get 
!!!
Go ahead and call Ford Mr.
dealer. They'll say, "You snooze, you lose."
Also, see how many other sales your going to lose because of bad publicity.
!!! Go ahead and call Ford Mr.
dealer. They'll say, "You snooze, you lose."Also, see how many other sales your going to lose because of bad publicity.
10/7/04, 02:01 AM
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If anyone wants to know how a dealer should act, check this thread. :w00t:
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=6756
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=6756
10/7/04, 02:34 AM
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Glad to hear you got a fair deal.
I'd be a little cautious about calling Canada a "free market". ;-) The U.S. is only barely that, and people are trying to change that all the time. (With like over half of what you earn going to the government in taxes, the market isn't really that free).
I don't see what stink that can cause. As someone else said, you got a better deal and took it. Duh! Happens all the time.
I always go back to the dealer that gave me the first test drive or has treated me well in the past. (If they were cool). They get first shot at the deal. But I negotiate pretty hard.
Just research on Edmunds, etc., figure out the spiffs and invoice costs. Then I go in and tell them that I can get the car for $500-1000 over invoice from someone else (depending on the car/timing/etc. based on what I can learn it is going for). I tell them I like them (true) and if they can match/beat the deal I have sown up, somewhere else, I'll buy from them. (That's just a way to expidite the negotiations, and cut down on the trips to the managers office with "let me check on that", etc.). It becomes a make or break, or at least they'll see how close they can come and offer you something else to sweeten the deal. If they can't, get what they will give you, and go to another place with that as the starting point, and see what they can beat.
If they can make the deal, quickly (without too much of the game), it's signed and everything is cool. (A couple hundred either way isn't that big an issue). If they can't, I go somewhere else.
Salesman have to make their salaries, and I deserve a good deal. Either it works or it doesn't. A few times dealers have met it, a few times I've walked and was able to get the deal I wanted somewhere else. I'm not trying to screw them or waste their time, but I'm not going to let them screw me either.
There are a few techniques to get a slightly better deal. Like go at the end of the month, and go in about a 1/2 hour or hour before they close (and they're tired). And make a long deal, and play the back and forth. When they start playing games about price, I often have the paperwork with me. (And can pull out costs of every options I want, etc). And we go item by item down the invoice. They hate that, but you can get a better deal with it. But that's a long way to do it. (You have to enjoy the game -- and I don't).
Another "technique" is get everything ready to go (like the deal is closed), but then say, "I'm almost there. If there's just one more thing you can give me on this...". And wait to see what they can get you. Usually they'll get flustered and tired, and offer you something else. But it's a bit slimy to do that (to me). And even if it is playing a salesmans game against them, I'd rather deal straight up and quick, then have to run you both through the negotiation "game".
The biggest thing in negotiating well, is just being prepared to walk. You can try another dealer, or come back. If you gotta have this car, now, then you're screwed.
The other thing is negotiate all three parts of the deal separately. Financing, Trade-in and New Car. Dealers can screw you on any of them.
Do the best New Car price you can first, and get it ready to go, and in writing.
Once that is done, then do the trade-in. Know your trade-in value, and negotiate hard. If they can't get you high wholesale for it, then walk. I've sold my car third party, or gone to other dealers and just continued the deal from where I left off. (Here's what they would give me the new car on, but they couldn't get me fair value for the trade-in, what can you do?). And things continue from there. The second dealer is a lot softer knowing you walked on one dealer already.
In the first two parts, give the dealer the hope that they'll make it all back on Financing. But that's where most people get gouged.
Finally, then negotiate financing last. If you can get pre-qualified for your Credit Union, etc., and get a good deal on the financing first, you might come out ahead. See what the dealer can/will get you, and push a bit. (It helps if you have good credit). Don't let them say, "you don't qualify for that" easily. (Unless you know you don't have good credit; be realistic). But if they can't beat the deal better than what you have, you just pull out what you have in your pocket and spring, "I'll just go with what I have", and use your pre-approved deal.
Dealers are trained to try to bundle the deals together to hide things and convince you they can get your payments down. Really they are getting the costs up (over a longer period of time). Leases are easier to bury hidden costs in, so be especially careful. Go over every line item. If there's something you don't like in the financing, then take what they have from there, leave and say you're going to look into that item first. (Talk it over with someone who knows and see if it is fair).
Think about these deals. It is easy to bury a few thousand dollars in the deals (or more). Lose a couple thousand on the purchase, a couple on the trade in, and a couple on the financing and it adds up quick. Do that every 5 or so years, and you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars over your life. (When you factor in interest if you'd saved that money, or opportuntity costs of capital, etc.). So be fair to dealers and salesman; they need to make a living too. But don't be dumb about it either.
I'd be a little cautious about calling Canada a "free market". ;-) The U.S. is only barely that, and people are trying to change that all the time. (With like over half of what you earn going to the government in taxes, the market isn't really that free).
I don't see what stink that can cause. As someone else said, you got a better deal and took it. Duh! Happens all the time.
I always go back to the dealer that gave me the first test drive or has treated me well in the past. (If they were cool). They get first shot at the deal. But I negotiate pretty hard.
Just research on Edmunds, etc., figure out the spiffs and invoice costs. Then I go in and tell them that I can get the car for $500-1000 over invoice from someone else (depending on the car/timing/etc. based on what I can learn it is going for). I tell them I like them (true) and if they can match/beat the deal I have sown up, somewhere else, I'll buy from them. (That's just a way to expidite the negotiations, and cut down on the trips to the managers office with "let me check on that", etc.). It becomes a make or break, or at least they'll see how close they can come and offer you something else to sweeten the deal. If they can't, get what they will give you, and go to another place with that as the starting point, and see what they can beat.
If they can make the deal, quickly (without too much of the game), it's signed and everything is cool. (A couple hundred either way isn't that big an issue). If they can't, I go somewhere else.
Salesman have to make their salaries, and I deserve a good deal. Either it works or it doesn't. A few times dealers have met it, a few times I've walked and was able to get the deal I wanted somewhere else. I'm not trying to screw them or waste their time, but I'm not going to let them screw me either.
There are a few techniques to get a slightly better deal. Like go at the end of the month, and go in about a 1/2 hour or hour before they close (and they're tired). And make a long deal, and play the back and forth. When they start playing games about price, I often have the paperwork with me. (And can pull out costs of every options I want, etc). And we go item by item down the invoice. They hate that, but you can get a better deal with it. But that's a long way to do it. (You have to enjoy the game -- and I don't).
Another "technique" is get everything ready to go (like the deal is closed), but then say, "I'm almost there. If there's just one more thing you can give me on this...". And wait to see what they can get you. Usually they'll get flustered and tired, and offer you something else. But it's a bit slimy to do that (to me). And even if it is playing a salesmans game against them, I'd rather deal straight up and quick, then have to run you both through the negotiation "game".
The biggest thing in negotiating well, is just being prepared to walk. You can try another dealer, or come back. If you gotta have this car, now, then you're screwed.
The other thing is negotiate all three parts of the deal separately. Financing, Trade-in and New Car. Dealers can screw you on any of them.
Do the best New Car price you can first, and get it ready to go, and in writing.
Once that is done, then do the trade-in. Know your trade-in value, and negotiate hard. If they can't get you high wholesale for it, then walk. I've sold my car third party, or gone to other dealers and just continued the deal from where I left off. (Here's what they would give me the new car on, but they couldn't get me fair value for the trade-in, what can you do?). And things continue from there. The second dealer is a lot softer knowing you walked on one dealer already.
In the first two parts, give the dealer the hope that they'll make it all back on Financing. But that's where most people get gouged.
Finally, then negotiate financing last. If you can get pre-qualified for your Credit Union, etc., and get a good deal on the financing first, you might come out ahead. See what the dealer can/will get you, and push a bit. (It helps if you have good credit). Don't let them say, "you don't qualify for that" easily. (Unless you know you don't have good credit; be realistic). But if they can't beat the deal better than what you have, you just pull out what you have in your pocket and spring, "I'll just go with what I have", and use your pre-approved deal.
Dealers are trained to try to bundle the deals together to hide things and convince you they can get your payments down. Really they are getting the costs up (over a longer period of time). Leases are easier to bury hidden costs in, so be especially careful. Go over every line item. If there's something you don't like in the financing, then take what they have from there, leave and say you're going to look into that item first. (Talk it over with someone who knows and see if it is fair).
Think about these deals. It is easy to bury a few thousand dollars in the deals (or more). Lose a couple thousand on the purchase, a couple on the trade in, and a couple on the financing and it adds up quick. Do that every 5 or so years, and you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars over your life. (When you factor in interest if you'd saved that money, or opportuntity costs of capital, etc.). So be fair to dealers and salesman; they need to make a living too. But don't be dumb about it either.
10/7/04, 03:09 AM
#16
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And be glad you have a choice. Those of us connected with the military overseas usually pay just under MSRP, but they gouge people with stuff like undercoating, storage fees, transportation and customs costs, and the like, which we usually can't avoid. Since the prices are pretty much fixed, and the firm knows they won't be doing any warranty work, its a big compromise, no X-plan, no deals.
But on a car like the Mustang or the early Miata years, we won't pay over MSRP, when others clearly do. Not sure whether I can get a Ford GT over here.
But on a car like the Mustang or the early Miata years, we won't pay over MSRP, when others clearly do. Not sure whether I can get a Ford GT over here.
10/7/04, 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by dke@October 7, 2004, 2:37 AM
The other thing is negotiate all three parts of the deal separately. Financing, Trade-in and New Car. Dealers can screw you on any of them.
The other thing is negotiate all three parts of the deal separately. Financing, Trade-in and New Car. Dealers can screw you on any of them.
10/7/04, 07:23 AM
#20
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Originally posted by M-squared@October 7, 2004, 5:42 AM
Why the heck would you want a canadian stang anyways? I would rather pay the extra just to make sure I had one that read in MPH and not KPH.
Why the heck would you want a canadian stang anyways? I would rather pay the extra just to make sure I had one that read in MPH and not KPH.