Critic's Corner 2
6/8/04, 10:49 AM
#1
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
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Last thread was pretty successful so here we go again.
Remember to post a quick reason for your choice at least!
No, I'm not an '05 basher, I just like to go against the grain of the standard "OMG its awesome" or "OMG this sucks" threads.
Remember to post a quick reason for your choice at least!
No, I'm not an '05 basher, I just like to go against the grain of the standard "OMG its awesome" or "OMG this sucks" threads.
6/8/04, 11:05 AM
#2
The Mustang Source FOUNDER
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Removed "Spoiler Delete" from the "Options" selection, because it is available.
I voted for suspension, for what looks to be more of the 4x4 ride height that we've all grown to hate, and for the truck-like sidewalls on the tires.
I also don't like the placement of the mufflers or the lack-luster wheel options.
I voted for suspension, for what looks to be more of the 4x4 ride height that we've all grown to hate, and for the truck-like sidewalls on the tires.
I also don't like the placement of the mufflers or the lack-luster wheel options.
6/8/04, 11:11 AM
#3
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i voted for weight. spoiler can be removed, wheels can be changed, i can buy custom leather to change the interior color. i just wish they could have gotten the weight down to like 3200 lbs. that or went with wnother 50 hp all around....250V6 and 350GT and went up from there
6/8/04, 11:59 AM
#6
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Suspension, specifically a lack of a modern IRS, is my primary whine. Any modern performance car deserves better than a last-century-tech oxcart axle propping up the hiney end. But better is promised…
Second might be the weight. While not exactly portly, less deadweight would help all aspects of performance, be it accelerating, turning or braking.
The lack of a simple spoiler delete would be an annoyance too.
In the same vein of minutiae, I think the interior mold/panel lines could have been better aligned to give a yet more integrated look. Looks like the design/engineering/manufacturing huddle got a little muddled here.
A 6-speed MTX might have been nice too, if somewhat superfluous for a big, torquey, broad band V8.
Second might be the weight. While not exactly portly, less deadweight would help all aspects of performance, be it accelerating, turning or braking.
The lack of a simple spoiler delete would be an annoyance too.
In the same vein of minutiae, I think the interior mold/panel lines could have been better aligned to give a yet more integrated look. Looks like the design/engineering/manufacturing huddle got a little muddled here.
A 6-speed MTX might have been nice too, if somewhat superfluous for a big, torquey, broad band V8.
6/8/04, 12:42 PM
#7
Team Mustang Source
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i voted for suspension/ride height. i think it can really make a difference to lower a car, even just a bit. and i would imagine that the taking the 05 down a bit can really help to improve its look.
does anyone know off hand how high it sits right now? (it may be available and i just missed it) and if anyone has thoughts on lowering it, how far to take it down?
does anyone know off hand how high it sits right now? (it may be available and i just missed it) and if anyone has thoughts on lowering it, how far to take it down?
6/8/04, 01:36 PM
#8
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Originally posted by rhumb@June 8, 2004, 12:02 PM
Suspension, specifically a lack of a modern IRS, is my primary whine. Any modern performance car deserves better than a last-century-tech oxcart axle propping up the hiney end. But better is promised…
Suspension, specifically a lack of a modern IRS, is my primary whine. Any modern performance car deserves better than a last-century-tech oxcart axle propping up the hiney end. But better is promised…
Anyway, he had done a stint with Ford of Europe and mentioned that many B-class cars there (which I believe include cars like the the VW Polo and Ford Fiesta) still have live beam axles and handle quite well.
Defending the use of a live rear axle in the Mustang, he said that getting the basic geometry right and through careful attention of bushings, springs and such that he was able to get surprisingly good handling with the live rear. And, such basic work would ensure that the IRS variants were more than competitive.
Of course, it was a promo interview, so what was he going to say! But, many great handling FWD cars still sport beam axles, so I'm trying to keep an open mind.
I do wish the 'Stang had come in a bit closer to 3000 lbs - that would have paid a divident in every area of performance. This Mustang will get an IRS in some variants -- it is very unlikely to lose much weight!
6/8/04, 02:02 PM
#10
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Just about any axle can handle well on a relatively smooth track when ride quality is of no concern -- to wit, I would point you to any number of go-carts that'll stick like gum to your shoe on a track.
Also, beam axle FWD cars, being FWD, don't have all the very heavy, heavy-duty axle components (drive shaft, axles, differential, u-joints, etc.) a high power RWD car would. Thus, they have relatively light unsprung weight, the main hobgoblin of a live axle RWD car.
That said, getting the basic geometries and whatnot right ARE very important in any suspension, and is/was, unforetunately, one of the big problems with the Fox chassis -- that it never really had these basics down very well to begin with. Ford then spent almost three decades more or less trying to ameliorate the chassis weaknesses rather than honing it to some ideal of handling and compliance.
The new chassis seems to have had great attention paid to getting the basics right and should be magnitutdes better, live axle or not.
Also, beam axle FWD cars, being FWD, don't have all the very heavy, heavy-duty axle components (drive shaft, axles, differential, u-joints, etc.) a high power RWD car would. Thus, they have relatively light unsprung weight, the main hobgoblin of a live axle RWD car.
That said, getting the basic geometries and whatnot right ARE very important in any suspension, and is/was, unforetunately, one of the big problems with the Fox chassis -- that it never really had these basics down very well to begin with. Ford then spent almost three decades more or less trying to ameliorate the chassis weaknesses rather than honing it to some ideal of handling and compliance.
The new chassis seems to have had great attention paid to getting the basics right and should be magnitutdes better, live axle or not.
6/8/04, 02:31 PM
#12
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All of the above.
Interior and exterior styling a bit too retro for my taste.
Base 4.0L gas guzzling truck engine. :notnice:
Live axle should be offered only on a pickup truck.
And yes she is too heavy...
Interior and exterior styling a bit too retro for my taste.
Base 4.0L gas guzzling truck engine. :notnice:
Live axle should be offered only on a pickup truck.
And yes she is too heavy...
6/8/04, 04:00 PM
#13
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a couple of items, just to keep some perspective:
the original mustang was an absolute bargain...besides being a new type of car it was dirt cheap. THAT price advantage was a major part of it's success. that same thinking went into the 05 mustang. price was always the first consideration, imo.
to cover all the bases of what people want in regards to options and performance levels, by the time the svt version comes out, there will be three distinct models, at the very least with commensurate performance, depending on how deep your wallet is.
the base v6 is based on the original 2.8 or 2.6 cologne v6. it was designed and manufactured by ford of europe and came out in the 70's. it was a purpose built v6 with an ideal 60 degrees between the banks. the outgoing 3.8 is derived from the ford small block 350 and has a 90 degree bank due to the castings of the v8 that were used...not an ideal set-up to say the least. the cologne v6 was the performance engine offered in the mercury capri back in the 70's...a very quick car for it's time.
the 05 mustang is considerably larger in wheelbase over the 04...it is a complete departure from the fox platform...look at the distance from the front axle plane and the base of the windshield: most of the engine mass, especially the v6 will reside BEHIND the front axle. this is very good for balanced handling.
the weight of the 05 stang would be very difficult to reduce to any great extent since the car is so much bigger and the fact that any serious weight reduction (lots of aluminum in the suspension and body parts) is very expensive to manufacture...and there is the key...cost. that's why the 05 stang will be a runaway success, imo. it's affordable and in the day of 30k cars, that's refreshing to see. jack 90seville 94k
the original mustang was an absolute bargain...besides being a new type of car it was dirt cheap. THAT price advantage was a major part of it's success. that same thinking went into the 05 mustang. price was always the first consideration, imo.
to cover all the bases of what people want in regards to options and performance levels, by the time the svt version comes out, there will be three distinct models, at the very least with commensurate performance, depending on how deep your wallet is.
the base v6 is based on the original 2.8 or 2.6 cologne v6. it was designed and manufactured by ford of europe and came out in the 70's. it was a purpose built v6 with an ideal 60 degrees between the banks. the outgoing 3.8 is derived from the ford small block 350 and has a 90 degree bank due to the castings of the v8 that were used...not an ideal set-up to say the least. the cologne v6 was the performance engine offered in the mercury capri back in the 70's...a very quick car for it's time.
the 05 mustang is considerably larger in wheelbase over the 04...it is a complete departure from the fox platform...look at the distance from the front axle plane and the base of the windshield: most of the engine mass, especially the v6 will reside BEHIND the front axle. this is very good for balanced handling.
the weight of the 05 stang would be very difficult to reduce to any great extent since the car is so much bigger and the fact that any serious weight reduction (lots of aluminum in the suspension and body parts) is very expensive to manufacture...and there is the key...cost. that's why the 05 stang will be a runaway success, imo. it's affordable and in the day of 30k cars, that's refreshing to see. jack 90seville 94k
6/8/04, 04:36 PM
#14
Team Mustang Source
Actually, the original Mustang was not that cheap with a few necessary options, the price would easily excede that of a base Pontiac Catalina which could be had for $2,995.00!
6/8/04, 05:03 PM
#16
Originally posted by ZERO@June 8, 2004, 1:45 PM
i voted for suspension/ride height. i think it can really make a difference to lower a car, even just a bit. and i would imagine that the taking the 05 down a bit can really help to improve its look.
does anyone know off hand how high it sits right now? (it may be available and i just missed it) and if anyone has thoughts on lowering it, how far to take it down?
i voted for suspension/ride height. i think it can really make a difference to lower a car, even just a bit. and i would imagine that the taking the 05 down a bit can really help to improve its look.
does anyone know off hand how high it sits right now? (it may be available and i just missed it) and if anyone has thoughts on lowering it, how far to take it down?
6/8/04, 05:06 PM
#17
As for dislikes, the same apply, no pull-**** on the headlight switch, and the parking brake handle.
As for IRS and what not, I have no problem paying 32k for a SE with IRS, brembo binders, suspension work, and 18" wheels. For $25K? you're asking WAY too much for too little. Step up to a Cobra.
As for IRS and what not, I have no problem paying 32k for a SE with IRS, brembo binders, suspension work, and 18" wheels. For $25K? you're asking WAY too much for too little. Step up to a Cobra.
:bang: 
Has anyone actually weighed a production car