CDC Sequential, brakes not
1/31/13, 11:30 PM
#1
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
CDC Sequential, brakes not
Has anybody with the early (Jan 08) CDC sequential taillight harness come up with a way to make the brake light not sequent ?
I called CDC and a service tech said it can`t be done, but I`m not believing it ! Every other manufacturer can.
I called CDC and a service tech said it can`t be done, but I`m not believing it ! Every other manufacturer can.
2/1/13, 07:09 AM
#2
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Tail light sequence
Call silver horse racing in Florida installed his unit and I had a choice to sequence brake lights or have all three bulbs work like normal brake lights ask to speak to Marcelo great guy maybe he can help you
2/1/13, 10:15 AM
#3
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
thanks
I already have, he`s not sure if theirs works as my CDC does.
I need someone that has done the CDC, early model.
I need someone that has done the CDC, early model.
2/1/13, 06:28 PM
#4
Legacy TMS Member
Meh. I had it all worked out, and it was good words, but for an '09 and back so... skip it. My bad.
Although, if there's somehow an amber only signal coming back... maybe...
I would dearly love to see video on how that works, both the signals and the wiring to do it, southern stang.
Because I am potentially calling shenanigans on that otherwise. I am envisioning with the exception of an export mustang that has the amber signals on it, there's nothing back there to determine signal vs brake vs hazards correctly.
Don't suppose you wanna elaborate on model and how it was done? I'm insanely curious now.
Although, if there's somehow an amber only signal coming back... maybe...
I would dearly love to see video on how that works, both the signals and the wiring to do it, southern stang.
Because I am potentially calling shenanigans on that otherwise. I am envisioning with the exception of an export mustang that has the amber signals on it, there's nothing back there to determine signal vs brake vs hazards correctly.
Don't suppose you wanna elaborate on model and how it was done? I'm insanely curious now.
Last edited by houtex; 2/1/13 at 07:01 PM.
2/1/13, 09:29 PM
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2/2/13, 11:01 AM
#8
Legacy TMS Member
How? Because law makers are **** about some things, this is one of them. Letter of the law and all that, and the same reason tint in one state is *utterly* illegal in... what is it, New Jersey? New York? I forget, one of those...
Also, *factory* sequencers DO NOT EVER sequence except for a turn signal. Ever. Brakes and hazards are never to be sequenced. Here is the flowchart, one per side, for sequencing tail lights per all 50 states legality, and there are 8 states of light conditions:
1) Brakes off, turn signal off, hazard off: no lights on
2) Brakes off, turn signal off, hazard ON: ALL lights FLASH ON/OFF
3) Brakes off, turn signal ON, hazard off: Sequence is ok.
4) Brakes off, turn signal ON, hazard ON: ALL lights FLASH ON/OFF
5) Brakes ON, turn signal off, hazard off: ALL lights ON
6) Brakes ON, turn signal off, hazard ON: ALL lights ON
7) Brakes ON, turn signal ON, hazard off: Sequence is ok.
8) Brakes ON, turn signal ON, hazard ON: ALL lights ON
But some states don't care, as long as the end result of each condition works. So one that sequences, but stays on, for brakes and hazards? Fine in some, bad in others. Different regions make different rules.
Even the 'aero' headlamp systems that were introduce in Europe, and are common on cars today, were not legal in all 50 states or the Federal laws until 1984. The Ford Mark VII was one of the very first to be designed and introduced with them. The SVO was second in line, but the first SVOs had to be made with the big square lights until the law was made all 50 states by the federal government. That's why the 1985.5 and 1986 SVOs have them, and the 1984s do not, as Ford didn't know what as going to happen until it finally happened.
1965 and 1966 Thunderbird had sequence turn signals too, but the similarly designed 1964 Thunderbird did not... and the laws of the time in all 50 states were the reason behind that too. 1965 was the first year you *could* put the sequencers in, so Ford, having designed it for '64 MY, had to wait a whole MY to put them in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Th...rth_generation)
Specifically this quote:
So.. anyway, that's why, atrav83. Laws are weird. Kinda hard to know them all. 
And so you buy them, thinking it'll be ok, and then "whoa, big ticket for *tint*?!" Like that.
Also, *factory* sequencers DO NOT EVER sequence except for a turn signal. Ever. Brakes and hazards are never to be sequenced. Here is the flowchart, one per side, for sequencing tail lights per all 50 states legality, and there are 8 states of light conditions:
1) Brakes off, turn signal off, hazard off: no lights on
2) Brakes off, turn signal off, hazard ON: ALL lights FLASH ON/OFF
3) Brakes off, turn signal ON, hazard off: Sequence is ok.
4) Brakes off, turn signal ON, hazard ON: ALL lights FLASH ON/OFF
5) Brakes ON, turn signal off, hazard off: ALL lights ON
6) Brakes ON, turn signal off, hazard ON: ALL lights ON
7) Brakes ON, turn signal ON, hazard off: Sequence is ok.
8) Brakes ON, turn signal ON, hazard ON: ALL lights ON
But some states don't care, as long as the end result of each condition works. So one that sequences, but stays on, for brakes and hazards? Fine in some, bad in others. Different regions make different rules.
Even the 'aero' headlamp systems that were introduce in Europe, and are common on cars today, were not legal in all 50 states or the Federal laws until 1984. The Ford Mark VII was one of the very first to be designed and introduced with them. The SVO was second in line, but the first SVOs had to be made with the big square lights until the law was made all 50 states by the federal government. That's why the 1985.5 and 1986 SVOs have them, and the 1984s do not, as Ford didn't know what as going to happen until it finally happened.
1965 and 1966 Thunderbird had sequence turn signals too, but the similarly designed 1964 Thunderbird did not... and the laws of the time in all 50 states were the reason behind that too. 1965 was the first year you *could* put the sequencers in, so Ford, having designed it for '64 MY, had to wait a whole MY to put them in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Th...rth_generation)
Specifically this quote:
Several features intended for the new generation were delayed until 1965, when front disc brakes became standard equipment and sequential turn signals were added. The latter feature flashed the individual segments of the broad, horizontal tail lights in sequences from inside to outside to indicate a turn. The delay resulted from legal difficulties with various U.S. state laws on vehicle lighting.
And so you buy them, thinking it'll be ok, and then "whoa, big ticket for *tint*?!" Like that.
Last edited by houtex; 2/2/13 at 11:03 AM.
2/2/13, 12:33 PM
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How? Because law makers are **** about some things, this is one of them. Letter of the law and all that, and the same reason tint in one state is *utterly* illegal in... what is it, New Jersey? New York? I forget, one of those...
Also, *factory* sequencers DO NOT EVER sequence except for a turn signal. Ever. Brakes and hazards are never to be sequenced. Here is the flowchart, one per side, for sequencing tail lights per all 50 states legality, and there are 8 states of light conditions:
1) Brakes off, turn signal off, hazard off: no lights on
2) Brakes off, turn signal off, hazard ON: ALL lights FLASH ON/OFF
3) Brakes off, turn signal ON, hazard off: Sequence is ok.
4) Brakes off, turn signal ON, hazard ON: ALL lights FLASH ON/OFF
5) Brakes ON, turn signal off, hazard off: ALL lights ON
6) Brakes ON, turn signal off, hazard ON: ALL lights ON
7) Brakes ON, turn signal ON, hazard off: Sequence is ok.
8) Brakes ON, turn signal ON, hazard ON: ALL lights ON
But some states don't care, as long as the end result of each condition works. So one that sequences, but stays on, for brakes and hazards? Fine in some, bad in others. Different regions make different rules.
Even the 'aero' headlamp systems that were introduce in Europe, and are common on cars today, were not legal in all 50 states or the Federal laws until 1984. The Ford Mark VII was one of the very first to be designed and introduced with them. The SVO was second in line, but the first SVOs had to be made with the big square lights until the law was made all 50 states by the federal government. That's why the 1985.5 and 1986 SVOs have them, and the 1984s do not, as Ford didn't know what as going to happen until it finally happened.
1965 and 1966 Thunderbird had sequence turn signals too, but the similarly designed 1964 Thunderbird did not... and the laws of the time in all 50 states were the reason behind that too. 1965 was the first year you *could* put the sequencers in, so Ford, having designed it for '64 MY, had to wait a whole MY to put them in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Th...rth_generation)
Specifically this quote:
So.. anyway, that's why, atrav83. Laws are weird. Kinda hard to know them all. And so you buy them, thinking it'll be ok, and then "whoa, big ticket for *tint*?!" Like that.
Also, *factory* sequencers DO NOT EVER sequence except for a turn signal. Ever. Brakes and hazards are never to be sequenced. Here is the flowchart, one per side, for sequencing tail lights per all 50 states legality, and there are 8 states of light conditions:
1) Brakes off, turn signal off, hazard off: no lights on
2) Brakes off, turn signal off, hazard ON: ALL lights FLASH ON/OFF
3) Brakes off, turn signal ON, hazard off: Sequence is ok.
4) Brakes off, turn signal ON, hazard ON: ALL lights FLASH ON/OFF
5) Brakes ON, turn signal off, hazard off: ALL lights ON
6) Brakes ON, turn signal off, hazard ON: ALL lights ON
7) Brakes ON, turn signal ON, hazard off: Sequence is ok.
8) Brakes ON, turn signal ON, hazard ON: ALL lights ON
But some states don't care, as long as the end result of each condition works. So one that sequences, but stays on, for brakes and hazards? Fine in some, bad in others. Different regions make different rules.
Even the 'aero' headlamp systems that were introduce in Europe, and are common on cars today, were not legal in all 50 states or the Federal laws until 1984. The Ford Mark VII was one of the very first to be designed and introduced with them. The SVO was second in line, but the first SVOs had to be made with the big square lights until the law was made all 50 states by the federal government. That's why the 1985.5 and 1986 SVOs have them, and the 1984s do not, as Ford didn't know what as going to happen until it finally happened.
1965 and 1966 Thunderbird had sequence turn signals too, but the similarly designed 1964 Thunderbird did not... and the laws of the time in all 50 states were the reason behind that too. 1965 was the first year you *could* put the sequencers in, so Ford, having designed it for '64 MY, had to wait a whole MY to put them in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Th...rth_generation)
Specifically this quote:
So.. anyway, that's why, atrav83. Laws are weird. Kinda hard to know them all.
And so you buy them, thinking it'll be ok, and then "whoa, big ticket for *tint*?!" Like that.
2/3/13, 10:27 AM
#12
Bullitt Member
I know it can be done with the Web Electric sequentials, I did it with mine. Not sure if they are same. Believe I found the info on their website, maybe, been a few years.
2/3/13, 01:34 PM
#13
Legacy TMS Member
Yeah, I imagine it could be done if you had a relay box or a set of chips set up to do it, and got the inputs directly from the brake, turn signal and hazard circuits, and run a key on power wire to the back to handle it all.
But I really can't fathom how you'd do it, correctly, with the signals that are back there. Even using the CHSML doesn't give enough information, you still don't have hazards... although differentiating between brake on/signal off vs brake on/signal on, could maybe be done...
Overall, though..
But I really can't fathom how you'd do it, correctly, with the signals that are back there. Even using the CHSML doesn't give enough information, you still don't have hazards... although differentiating between brake on/signal off vs brake on/signal on, could maybe be done...
Overall, though..
2/3/13, 04:59 PM
#14
legacy Tms Member
Meh. I had it all worked out, and it was good words, but for an '09 and back so... skip it. My bad.
Although, if there's somehow an amber only signal coming back... maybe...
I would dearly love to see video on how that works, both the signals and the wiring to do it, southern stang.
Because I am potentially calling shenanigans on that otherwise. I am envisioning with the exception of an export mustang that has the amber signals on it, there's nothing back there to determine signal vs brake vs hazards correctly.
Don't suppose you wanna elaborate on model and how it was done? I'm insanely curious now.
Although, if there's somehow an amber only signal coming back... maybe...
I would dearly love to see video on how that works, both the signals and the wiring to do it, southern stang.
Because I am potentially calling shenanigans on that otherwise. I am envisioning with the exception of an export mustang that has the amber signals on it, there's nothing back there to determine signal vs brake vs hazards correctly.
Don't suppose you wanna elaborate on model and how it was done? I'm insanely curious now.
mines got the sequencing brakes too, and I have been thinking about revamping:
pretty sure a and gate arrangement to a couple FETs could be spliced in pretty easily, just unsure if it might blow the sequencers when bypassing...easiest would be just replace the darn things, but another 150 bucks...
Tim
2/4/13, 09:31 PM
#15
Legacy TMS Member
Houtex, I'm pretty sure the only way to do this with some sets is a crossover wire that can detect 'on' simultaneous on both sides to fire the outer bulbs too... I know web/some others had them selectable, but they had a module inside the trunk to do so, some required extra wires from the SJB ran also.
mines got the sequencing brakes too, and I have been thinking about revamping:
pretty sure a and gate arrangement to a couple FETs could be spliced in pretty easily, just unsure if it might blow the sequencers when bypassing...easiest would be just replace the darn things, but another 150 bucks...
Tim
mines got the sequencing brakes too, and I have been thinking about revamping:
pretty sure a and gate arrangement to a couple FETs could be spliced in pretty easily, just unsure if it might blow the sequencers when bypassing...easiest would be just replace the darn things, but another 150 bucks...
Tim
Which is why I'd like to know how Southern got them to work... just be nice to know the how of it.
2/5/13, 11:23 AM
#16
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
I got this from Silver Horse Racing, it works on a WebElectric, it will not work on a CDC harness. CDC has a unique harness !
Installing the Control Wires
This section describes how to install the Control Wires so that the brake lights do not sequence. Your kit comes with a length of RED and BROWN two-conductor wire. Run this paired wire from the modules to the dash. Locate the wires that go to the turn signal indicators in the instrument panel. The turn signal indicator wires can be found in the connector located under the dash on the bottom side of the steering column. Follow the wiring from the turn signal switch down the column, where you will find a 16-pin connector. Find the LIGHT GREEN/WHITE STRIPED wire and WHITE/LIGHT BLUE STRIPED wire, and make the following connections:
1) Connect the LIGHT GREEN/WHITE STRIPED wire to the BLACK control wire.
2) Connect the WHITE/LIGHT BLUE STRIPED wire to the RED control wire.
3) Back at the sequencer modules, find the GREEN wire with the wire nut.
4) Connect the RED CONTROL wire to the GREEN wire of the RIGHT side module.
5) Connect the BROWN CONTROL wire to the GREEN wire of the left side module.
WebElectric Products :
The CDC harnesses cannot be made to disable the brake light sequence. Our products are the only ones that do.
Installing the Control Wires
This section describes how to install the Control Wires so that the brake lights do not sequence. Your kit comes with a length of RED and BROWN two-conductor wire. Run this paired wire from the modules to the dash. Locate the wires that go to the turn signal indicators in the instrument panel. The turn signal indicator wires can be found in the connector located under the dash on the bottom side of the steering column. Follow the wiring from the turn signal switch down the column, where you will find a 16-pin connector. Find the LIGHT GREEN/WHITE STRIPED wire and WHITE/LIGHT BLUE STRIPED wire, and make the following connections:
1) Connect the LIGHT GREEN/WHITE STRIPED wire to the BLACK control wire.
2) Connect the WHITE/LIGHT BLUE STRIPED wire to the RED control wire.
3) Back at the sequencer modules, find the GREEN wire with the wire nut.
4) Connect the RED CONTROL wire to the GREEN wire of the RIGHT side module.
5) Connect the BROWN CONTROL wire to the GREEN wire of the left side module.
WebElectric Products :
The CDC harnesses cannot be made to disable the brake light sequence. Our products are the only ones that do.
Last edited by I-70 west; 2/5/13 at 11:27 AM.
2/5/13, 03:24 PM
#17
legacy Tms Member
Yeah, see, that's how I envision it, you tap the SJB wires for the turn signal, brake and hazard, and then run those to the back along with a power wire and make a box or two. That'd be easy, just a little time/stuff consuming.
Which is why I'd like to know how Southern got them to work... just be nice to know the how of it.
Which is why I'd like to know how Southern got them to work... just be nice to know the how of it.
if turnsignal on before brakes it sequences
if brakes on before turns- all on
if turn on after braking- brakes all illuminate, then when turn applied, that side cycles
the inner bulbs work as factory, so just making 'both on =no sequencers from inner->outer on that side'
dunno if im describing this in decent wording
oops- to really 'and' properly, one wire from each inner to the opposite 'and' gate...the 'and' if true then shorts outer to inner on that side...if backfeeding might damage the sequencers, just put a blocking diode on each of the 2 fet outputs.
1 and gate, 2 fets, 2 diodes per side and 2 signal wires crossing inside the trunk. 3 splices each side(sense from inner, force to the 2 outers)
make any sense? its winter, maybe I'll try it out...Ive still got my OE harness if I fry it
Last edited by ford4v429; 2/5/13 at 03:25 PM.
2/5/13, 08:16 PM
#18
Legacy TMS Member
I got this from Silver Horse Racing, it works on a WebElectric, it will not work on a CDC harness. CDC has a unique harness !
Installing the Control Wires
This section describes how to install the Control Wires so that the brake lights do not sequence. Your kit comes with a length of RED and BROWN two-conductor wire. Run this paired wire from the modules to the dash. Locate the wires that go to the turn signal indicators in the instrument panel. The turn signal indicator wires can be found in the connector located under the dash on the bottom side of the steering column. Follow the wiring from the turn signal switch down the column, where you will find a 16-pin connector. Find the LIGHT GREEN/WHITE STRIPED wire and WHITE/LIGHT BLUE STRIPED wire, and make the following connections:
1) Connect the LIGHT GREEN/WHITE STRIPED wire to the BLACK control wire.
2) Connect the WHITE/LIGHT BLUE STRIPED wire to the RED control wire.
3) Back at the sequencer modules, find the GREEN wire with the wire nut.
4) Connect the RED CONTROL wire to the GREEN wire of the RIGHT side module.
5) Connect the BROWN CONTROL wire to the GREEN wire of the left side module.
WebElectric Products :
The CDC harnesses cannot be made to disable the brake light sequence. Our products are the only ones that do.
Installing the Control Wires
This section describes how to install the Control Wires so that the brake lights do not sequence. Your kit comes with a length of RED and BROWN two-conductor wire. Run this paired wire from the modules to the dash. Locate the wires that go to the turn signal indicators in the instrument panel. The turn signal indicator wires can be found in the connector located under the dash on the bottom side of the steering column. Follow the wiring from the turn signal switch down the column, where you will find a 16-pin connector. Find the LIGHT GREEN/WHITE STRIPED wire and WHITE/LIGHT BLUE STRIPED wire, and make the following connections:
1) Connect the LIGHT GREEN/WHITE STRIPED wire to the BLACK control wire.
2) Connect the WHITE/LIGHT BLUE STRIPED wire to the RED control wire.
3) Back at the sequencer modules, find the GREEN wire with the wire nut.
4) Connect the RED CONTROL wire to the GREEN wire of the RIGHT side module.
5) Connect the BROWN CONTROL wire to the GREEN wire of the left side module.
WebElectric Products :
The CDC harnesses cannot be made to disable the brake light sequence. Our products are the only ones that do.
2/5/13, 11:06 PM
#19
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
I still think it could be done in the trunk with existing wiring- just 'and' the right and left inner bulb power to a set of fets that feed the outers- if both inners come on simultaneously(brake or flashers, not turns) instantly turn all of them on by bypassing the sequencer thingys...if turns come on, work as-is...
if turnsignal on before brakes it sequences
if brakes on before turns- all on
if turn on after braking- brakes all illuminate, then when turn applied, that side cycles
the inner bulbs work as factory, so just making 'both on =no sequencers from inner->outer on that side'
dunno if im describing this in decent wording
oops- to really 'and' properly, one wire from each inner to the opposite 'and' gate...the 'and' if true then shorts outer to inner on that side...if backfeeding might damage the sequencers, just put a blocking diode on each of the 2 fet outputs.
1 and gate, 2 fets, 2 diodes per side and 2 signal wires crossing inside the trunk. 3 splices each side(sense from inner, force to the 2 outers)
make any sense? its winter, maybe I'll try it out...Ive still got my OE harness if I fry it
if turnsignal on before brakes it sequences
if brakes on before turns- all on
if turn on after braking- brakes all illuminate, then when turn applied, that side cycles
the inner bulbs work as factory, so just making 'both on =no sequencers from inner->outer on that side'
dunno if im describing this in decent wording
oops- to really 'and' properly, one wire from each inner to the opposite 'and' gate...the 'and' if true then shorts outer to inner on that side...if backfeeding might damage the sequencers, just put a blocking diode on each of the 2 fet outputs.
1 and gate, 2 fets, 2 diodes per side and 2 signal wires crossing inside the trunk. 3 splices each side(sense from inner, force to the 2 outers)
make any sense? its winter, maybe I'll try it out...Ive still got my OE harness if I fry it
It seems I remember when on the phone to the CDC tech that the brake and turn signal on there harness uses the same wire there fore you can`t make it do two separate things.
Last edited by I-70 west; 2/5/13 at 11:12 PM.
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