Northwest GT

I was just in my local auto parts store and noticed they had Silverstar Ultras in H8 but not H13. I don't know what gives with the Sylvania folks. There's a whole lot of money for them to make by just offering the Ultras in H13. And, it took them about two years before they made the normal Silverstars available in H13. Strange.

Gleamin05

Forget the silverstars go with the Luminics. Here is a link
http://www.americanmuscle.com/luminics.html

05BLKGT

Why do you say that Gleamin? Are they that much better than the silverstars? I'm also looking at changing out my stock bulbs.

goldenpony

I had a set of Luminics - Sorry, but they sucked. Stay with Silverstars.

metroplex

According to Sylvania, they do not have any plans to make Ultras for the H10 and H13 bulbs.

The Sylvania SilverStar H13s have a lifespan of 325 hours lowbeam, while the XtraVision H13s are at 500 hours. The stock H13s have a lifespan of 1000 hours. The reason for the SilverStar's low lifespan is the filter/tint they apply on the glass, retains a lot of the heat causing the filament to wear out faster. The XtraVisions aren't tinted, but the gas mixture burns differently, resulting in a shorter filament life.

The only benefit to running the SilverStar is the 4100K color temperature, which gives you a false impression of having more light on the road. Sylvania said that the SilverStars don't actually produce more light since the lights are regulated under FMVSS. If you read one of my threads here on TMS, you'll see that even HIDs are restricted to about 75,000 candelas in the high beam mode - the same limit for halogens and LEDs.

06GT4RAD

I agree wiht that 100% Luminics Seriously suck ***.

Get the Silverstars

metroplex

Based on the info provided by Sylvania, I'd have to categorize the SilverStars and SilverStar ultras as tinted ricer bulbs, just like the Luminix.

06GT4RAD

The Silverstars are not coated enough to give off that bluish tint look. Not even close in appearnce to those Luminics

Dixie_Flatline

Good info, thanks for er... enlightening us.

It brings up an interesting point about how humans perceive things visually though... and knowing that everything we see is just a small percentage of the light spectrum bouncing off things that happen to be in the way... changing the color of the light can give our eyes more useful light reflections from the road. HIDs may not throw more light, but I had a vehicle with them for a few years and darn, on unlit roads (80% of what's around me) you can certainly see a lot better with them.

jcopin

get HID's ;p

metroplex

The OEM HIDs are still limited to 75,000 candelas in the high beam mode, which is logically the "brightest" setting. The aftermarket eBay HID retrofit kits can allow as much as 150,000 candela hence why they are frowned upon by NHTSA. It is unfair to compare aftermarket HID retrofit kits with halogens.

The 2007 Cadillac Escalade's OEM HIDs are only slightly brighter than the 2006 Chrysler 300's OEM 9005/9006 halogen headlamps (the same 9005/9006 that OEMs have been using for over 15 years), certainly not even close to 2-3 times brighter.

The beam pattern also has a significant affect on headlamp performance. It is in my humblest opinion that the OEM S197 headlamps and foglamps are quite extraordinary. I have not been able to obtain photometric data from Valeo-Sylvania for the OEM headlamps, but I can certainly see a lot better than with earlier halogen designs. The VOR cut-off (sharp horizontal line) for the headlamps is amazing, and the foglamps do an outstanding job for lighting the ground and the sides of the road. I have gotten quite a few high beam flashes, and even one marked police car constantly flashing his spotlight at my Mustang when I had the headlamps and foglamps on. If the stock exterior lighting is bright enough to make pickup truck drivers flash their high beams at me, then I'd say Ford and Valeo-Sylvania have done their job of making an effective forward lighting system. It almost pains me to see people get rid of their grilles for the Bullitt grilles which deletes the foglamps.

I am playing around with a 4300K aftermarket HID system on another car and will agree that the white light makes a huge difference in the dark. Albeit it's almost impossible to get a halogen light that produces 4100K light for over 1000 lab rated hours.

RRRoamer

Personally, the reduced lamp life of the Silverstars just doesn't concern me.

In my 25 years of maintaining my own and my parents vehicles (assorted makes and models and varing quantities of vehicles), do you know how many head lamps I have replaced due to burn out?

Zero.

And this is generally on older vehicles as well. My current oldest vehicle that I maintain is my 1981 Ford F100 pickup. My family tends to buy and keep a vehicle for a VERY long time and until the last 10 years, mainly buying "well used" vehicles to boot.

What I HAVE done on several occasions is replace headlamps because the light level had fallen off due to age of the bulb. More and more recently, I have had to replace those plastic light housing assemblies because they have aged with UV exposore and become very yellow, blocking light output significantly. I actually kind of miss the old sealed beam glass bulbs a bit due to that.

So, if the Silvarstars only have 1/3 the life, but put out more light (I have run a wide variaty of bulbs in my pickup over the years and there is NO question in my mind that the Silverstars are significantly brighter that OEM replacement sealed beams), I am more than willing to make that swap. Others aren't, so that is there call.

metroplex

You're right, the headlamps don't normally just burn out. They lose light output over time as the tungsten filament loses its structure (tungsten begins to leave the filament). The lab rated hours are almost always higher than real world expectations. After 5 years of use, my XtraVision 9007 low beam filaments looked like a rat had chewed it apart, but it still functioned and I got decent light output.

According to Sylvania, the SilverStars and SilverStar Ultras produce enough light to remain within the legal parameters (not any more or less than OEM) and the MSCP ratings are the same for the OEM H13 and XtraVision H13. The color temperature of the SilverStar is what makes people think their lamps are "brighter". FYI Sylvania is the supplier for OEM halogen capsules on many of Ford's vehicles since Valeo-Sylvania is also the supplier for many of Ford's headlamp assemblies.

Also, the S197 Mustang uses replaceable halogen capsules, and not sealed beam headlamps. The Mustangs stopped using sealed beams in the 80s.

Based on the mixed feedback on the SilverStars where some people had filaments burn out or become dim, I would rather save my money and keep the OEM H13 and H10s or wait for some type of direct-fit HID replacement kit. I seriously doubt anyone is going to make LED headlamps for the S197, but perhaps we may seem them in about 5-10 years after Audi, Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes have used them on all their models.

RRRoamer

Actually, I found something intersting in 49.571-108 (or how ever they abriviate that!). 1 Oct 2006 version was the latest they had online. The legally allowable light power is a HUGE range from 40k candelia to 70k candelia. So a light ONLY producing 40k on it's high beams IS a legal light but a light producing 70k on high is ALSO a legal light.

Think about that for a moment. You are talking about an almost 2x increase in power (not quite) from the dimmest "legal" light to the brightest "legal" light. Plus, head lights are legal up to 70 watts on high and 60 watts on low... (assuming they meet the light output guildlines)

So I have a feeling that Sylvania has a LOT of room to make the Silverstars BE brighter than their OEM bulbs and STILL be legal. And again, I KNOW that the Silverstars in my pickup ARE much brighter than the base Sylvania bulbs.

It isn't just the color temp making it appear brighter either. In fact, once you get beyond about 3k, higher color temp bulbs generally have a decreasing light output for a given power input. It just takes more energy to produce high frequency light versus low frequency light. My other hobby is coral reef aquariums and corals live and die (literally) by having the right color and intensity of light, so I have sent quite a bit of time researching light and how to produce it.

Oh, and yes, I am fully aware that my Mustang doesn't have sealed beams. As I said, I miss them because they don't yellow with age like the plastic integrated housings do.

Of course, all of this discussion is fairly academic anyway. I am happy enough with my cars lighting to leave the factory bulbs in place for the time being. The fog lights that I have converted to 100w/80w driving lights is another thing entirely, of course!

metroplex

What you found was the October 2006 edition of FMVSS 108, exactly what I was talking about. The maximum allowed candela for the high beams is around 75,000 cd. That is the same limit for HIDs, Halogens, and LEDs. That 75,000 cd limit is for high beams. Generally speaking, good low beams will only be around 30,000 - 50,000 candelas. In the case of the 07 Escalade HIDs, the low beam max was around 32,000 candela - these were D1S HID projectors! Note that these limits are for the entire headlamp assembly, and NOT just the bulb. Sylvania really does not have "30k candela" of lee-way with a set of tinted light bulbs.

According to Sylvania, all of their H13s have the same light output and MSCP rating. The only difference among brands is the type of gas used and tinting. Without changing the filament design or reflectors, you're limited to pretty much the stock light output. The color temperature is what people see and perceive as brighter light.

swissdan

I have installed sylvania silverstar H13 ST2 / 4000k, and I must say this white light feels better and more confortable than stock H13 !

RRRoamer

We are not communicating. You keep implying that all high beams are 75k cd. But that is NOT what the spec requires. The spec allows from 40k to 70k (perhaps updated to 75k for 2007, but I was looking at the 2006 edition). What I am trying to say is that UNLESS ALL BULBS ARE DESIGNED TO PUT OUT THE ABSOLUTE MAX ALLOWED LIGHT, then there IS room for brighter bulbs that ARE legal.

So when you keep saying that "all bulbs meet the spec", it just doesn't mean anything as to which bulb is brighter when the spec has such a huge range of light output available.

If the spec was written to say something like "all high beams must put out 65k cp +/- 5k cp" then that is a pretty tight window and you won't see that much difference between bulbs at the high end of the spec and bulbs at the low end of the spec. As it was written in 2006, it basically says "all high beams must put out 55k cp +/- 15k cp" which leaves an absolutely HUGE window to produce "legal" bulbs.

RRRoamer

When I went on my mission to get brighter lighting in my pickup, step one was to rewire the headlight harness. I replaced the bulb connectors, added two relays (one for high beam, one for low beam) and brought in power directly from the batter using a 10 gauge wire and grounded the lights directly to the frame also using 10 gauge wire. The high/low beam feed from the truck's light swich only served to turn on each of the relays to power the bulbs. This change made a HUGE difference simply because the truck was so old and the wiring harness was in such bad shape. I went from 11.7V (with the truck running!) across the bulb to 13.2V. That is a 28% increase in power to the bulb.

I was still not happy, so I bought new OEM bulbs, which turned out to be standard Sylvania halogen bulbs. The new bulbs helped a bit more, but it was not nearly the improvement that the wiring harness was.

At this point, I decided to try the Silverstars and see how they worked. As it turned out, I was changing the bulbs at night and my street was fairly dark. After replacing one bulb, I did a bit of testing by turning on my lights and then standing in front of one bulb then the other to block it's light output and see how well the other bulb was lighting things up.

The Silverstars where putting out a LOT more light. Not just whiter light either. I could easily see details (trees, bushes, mail boxes, etc) over 30% further away with the Silverstar than I could with the standard bulb. At the further distance, those things I could see with the Silverstar was completely invisible with the standard bulb.

Needless to say, I was quite happy with how much I had spent on the Silverstars as I shutoff the lights and finish installing the last bulb.

metroplex

I never said the high beams HAD to be 75,000 candela. I said the maximum allowed light in the high beam mode was about 75,000 candela, which is going to be as bright as you can get. There is no real maximum limit for the low beam mode, but if you think about it, the high beam mode is going to be the brightest mode, and most of the light should be at the H-V point. It just so happens there is a 75,000 candela limit at the H-V point for the high beams. There are minimum requirements for certain points and max limits at other points. I have always referred to the maximum limit for the high beams. AFAIK all of FMVSS 108 editions have referred to the max limit of H-V for Fig 17-2 and 27-2 as 75,000 candela. You are probably looking at the wrong limits. Our Mustangs and most modern cars (HID or halogen) are visually aimed with replaceable bulbs/capsules. Forward discharge lighting (HID) is referred to SAE J1383 in FMVSS 108, and J1383's limits are almost the same as Figure 17-2 and Figure 27-2 in FMVSS 108. The NHTSA photometric testing for the 07 Escalade's HID utilized FMVSS limits for certification.

The limits imposed in Figure 17-2 and 27-2 are for headlamp assemblies w/ bulbs, and not just the bulb/capsule itself. Bulbs are generally tested and rated in MSCP, which just so happens to be the same for all of Sylvania's H13 bulbs. You can't do much with the bulb itself other than try a different gas mixture, different filament, and glass tint. By making the filament burn brighter, you are reducing the life. By adding a glass tint, you are also reducing the life by trapping some of the heat inside the bulb. Needless to say, there's not a whole lot you can do with the bulb itself to try and bump up the light output.

Just as an example,
H13 is rated at 87 - 135 MSCP, while D2S (HID) is rated at 255 MSCP (mean spherical candlepower). These are just the bulbs/capsules. As you can see, the D2S HID is approx. 3 times "brighter" than H13. However, once you plop them into a DOT-legal headlamp assembly, they have to fall within the limits established in FMVSS 108. It just so happens that the D1S (similar to D2S) HID assemblies in the 07 Escalade were within about 5k candela of the 9005/9006 halogens from the 06 Chrysler 300. Are the HIDs 2-3 times brighter than the halogens once installed in a headlamp housing? No - they still have to fall within the FMVSS limits. The color temperature and projector design is what makes the HIDs superior.

I had the pleasure of playing around with a set of headlamps that actually registered a few candela shy of 75,000 at the H-V point in the high beam mode, it was like operating a spotlamp!

The reflector or projector design has a LOT more to do with the overall light output by spreading the beam pattern properly and focusing the light where it needs to be. You cannot do all of that just by swapping bulbs! The whiter light of the SilverStar is what people perceive as "brighter" light - but I suppose as long as you feel happy spending the $30 on SilverStars and feel it helps your night driving, you are getting your money's worth just as long as the SilverStars aren't producing less light than the stock H13s.

metroplex

Right, but that's just the human eye perceiving the white light differently from yellow light. There's not actually a whole lot more light coming out of the SilverStars, just whiter light. There's nothing wrong with this, and I'd probably go this route if they had a higher rated lifespan. Although I did some math and it'd be less expensive in the long run to keep swapping out SilverStars versus forking out $1000 for a HID retrofit. I am impressed with the stock headlamp and foglamp reflector design.

FYI, any type of tinting or glass coating does actually reduce light transmission. Adding a clear protective covering on the headlamp lens will reduce light transmission by about 5%.