6-Speed T-56 on the new Mustang GT
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Originally posted by 2MFF@June 2, 2005, 4:56 PM
Hey guys,
First off, why would anyone take the time to convert from the 5 speed to a T-56? All you are getting is 2 overdrives. Not really a performance mod.
I have been throwing around the idea of putting a Richmond in my 05, but nothing serious yet. I'll think about this a little more and post later if I think of anything.
Hey guys,
First off, why would anyone take the time to convert from the 5 speed to a T-56? All you are getting is 2 overdrives. Not really a performance mod.
I have been throwing around the idea of putting a Richmond in my 05, but nothing serious yet. I'll think about this a little more and post later if I think of anything.
A six speed will allow you to run a steeper rear gear, say a 3:73 or 4:10, and still have a comfortable cruising rpm when driving on the highway.
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With the type of performance the GT offers I don't think that it is worth it or that it would make much difference, with the exception that the T-56 shifts better and it is a better transmission all around. IMO.
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Originally posted by 1 BULLITT@June 2, 2005, 5:25 PM
With the type of performance the GT offers I don't think that it is worth it or that it would make much difference, with the exception that the T-56 shifts better and it is a better transmission all around. IMO.
With the type of performance the GT offers I don't think that it is worth it or that it would make much difference, with the exception that the T-56 shifts better and it is a better transmission all around. IMO.
I just want to know what would have to be changed if the transmission is swapped, do we have to think of a new clutch, new shaft, new crossmember, new what else! It's a no brainer that the transmission would make the car MUCH BETTER (otherwise the GT500 would not be sporting that transmission, don't ya'l think?)
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
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From: San Antonio, TX
Originally posted by 1 BULLITT@June 2, 2005, 3:37 PM
Fuel efficiency comes with steady speeds and low RPMs not with shifting.
Fuel efficiency comes with steady speeds and low RPMs not with shifting.
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Where do you guys get your info?
The 2005 GT 3650 3.38 2.00 1.32 1.00 0.68
Ford spec T-56 3.36 2.07 1.35 1.00 0.80 0.62
------- or ------- 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.80 0.62
Viper spec T-56 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50
Explain to me how the T-56 (any gearset version) would be such a benefit over the 3650
An overdrive gear should NEVER be used in a performance situaton, and I seriously doubt any of you will ever see speeds in the overdrive range for more than a short period, on a freeway, never at the track.
0.62 aint a big difference over 0.68, and while 0.50 may seem great for steep rear gears the 2.66 first pretty much negates it.
I did a TON of research befre putting the Richmond 6 speed in my 66 and would suggest anyone contemplating doing a tranny swap on their 05 do more research than "hey, they put the T-56 in the GT-500 and the Viper".
The 2005 GT 3650 3.38 2.00 1.32 1.00 0.68
Ford spec T-56 3.36 2.07 1.35 1.00 0.80 0.62
------- or ------- 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.80 0.62
Viper spec T-56 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50
Explain to me how the T-56 (any gearset version) would be such a benefit over the 3650
An overdrive gear should NEVER be used in a performance situaton, and I seriously doubt any of you will ever see speeds in the overdrive range for more than a short period, on a freeway, never at the track.
0.62 aint a big difference over 0.68, and while 0.50 may seem great for steep rear gears the 2.66 first pretty much negates it.
I did a TON of research befre putting the Richmond 6 speed in my 66 and would suggest anyone contemplating doing a tranny swap on their 05 do more research than "hey, they put the T-56 in the GT-500 and the Viper".
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Originally posted by 2MFF@June 3, 2005, 12:06 AM
Where do you guys get your info?
The 2005 GT 3650 3.38 2.00 1.32 1.00 0.68
Ford spec T-56 3.36 2.07 1.35 1.00 0.80 0.62
------- or ------- 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.80 0.62
Viper spec T-56 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50
Explain to me how the T-56 (any gearset version) would be such a benefit over the 3650
An overdrive gear should NEVER be used in a performance situaton, and I seriously doubt any of you will ever see speeds in the overdrive range for more than a short period, on a freeway, never at the track.
0.62 aint a big difference over 0.68, and while 0.50 may seem great for steep rear gears the 2.66 first pretty much negates it.
I did a TON of research befre putting the Richmond 6 speed in my 66 and would suggest anyone contemplating doing a tranny swap on their 05 do more research than "hey, they put the T-56 in the GT-500 and the Viper".
Where do you guys get your info?
The 2005 GT 3650 3.38 2.00 1.32 1.00 0.68
Ford spec T-56 3.36 2.07 1.35 1.00 0.80 0.62
------- or ------- 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.80 0.62
Viper spec T-56 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50
Explain to me how the T-56 (any gearset version) would be such a benefit over the 3650
An overdrive gear should NEVER be used in a performance situaton, and I seriously doubt any of you will ever see speeds in the overdrive range for more than a short period, on a freeway, never at the track.
0.62 aint a big difference over 0.68, and while 0.50 may seem great for steep rear gears the 2.66 first pretty much negates it.
I did a TON of research befre putting the Richmond 6 speed in my 66 and would suggest anyone contemplating doing a tranny swap on their 05 do more research than "hey, they put the T-56 in the GT-500 and the Viper".
Good information to know, from the data shown there is no benefit at all. The ratios are exactly the same. Just a big waist of money.
Thanks for the info!!!
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From: Surrey, BC
Changing the diff from 3.55 to 4.10 increases rpm by about 300 at 70? Changing the final gear in the trans from .68 to .62 would gain back about 200 rpm so fuel economy on the freeway would be pretty close to the same again.
I was thinking about looking into changing the 3650's 5th from .68 to a .62 for highway fuel economy with 4.10's. Granted, it's quite a bit farther from 4th to 5th but I never hit 5th when "exercising" the car anyway. But with the T-56 looking more affordable
3.36/2.07/1.35/1.00/0.80/0.62 with 4.10's work for me.
Can you mix and match?? Hmmm...2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/0.74/0.50 with 4.30's or 4.56???
I was thinking about looking into changing the 3650's 5th from .68 to a .62 for highway fuel economy with 4.10's. Granted, it's quite a bit farther from 4th to 5th but I never hit 5th when "exercising" the car anyway. But with the T-56 looking more affordable
3.36/2.07/1.35/1.00/0.80/0.62 with 4.10's work for me.
Can you mix and match?? Hmmm...2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/0.74/0.50 with 4.30's or 4.56???
Mach 1 Member
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Originally posted by Redfire 05Gt@June 3, 2005, 12:44 AM
Changing the diff from 3.55 to 4.10 increases rpm by about 300 at 70? Changing the final gear in the trans from .68 to .62 would gain back about 200 rpm so fuel economy on the freeway would be pretty close to the same again.
I was thinking about looking into changing the 3650's 5th from .68 to a .62 for highway fuel economy with 4.10's. Granted, it's quite a bit farther from 4th to 5th but I never hit 5th when "exercising" the car anyway. But with the T-56 looking more affordable
3.36/2.07/1.35/1.00/0.80/0.62 with 4.10's work for me.
Can you mix and match?? Hmmm...2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/0.74/0.50 with 4.30's or 4.56???
Changing the diff from 3.55 to 4.10 increases rpm by about 300 at 70? Changing the final gear in the trans from .68 to .62 would gain back about 200 rpm so fuel economy on the freeway would be pretty close to the same again.
I was thinking about looking into changing the 3650's 5th from .68 to a .62 for highway fuel economy with 4.10's. Granted, it's quite a bit farther from 4th to 5th but I never hit 5th when "exercising" the car anyway. But with the T-56 looking more affordable
3.36/2.07/1.35/1.00/0.80/0.62 with 4.10's work for me.
Can you mix and match?? Hmmm...2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/0.74/0.50 with 4.30's or 4.56???
I can't quite see that being very cost effective???
For the amount of money you would have to spend to have some one pull the trans, disassemble it, install the new 5th gear and then put it all back together again you could have a killer set of ported heads or a bunch of other mods. Just my 2 cents.
Bullitt Member
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Originally posted by Redfire 05Gt@June 2, 2005, 10:44 PM
Changing the diff from 3.55 to 4.10 increases rpm by about 300 at 70? Changing the final gear in the trans from .68 to .62 would gain back about 200 rpm so fuel economy on the freeway would be pretty close to the same again.
I was thinking about looking into changing the 3650's 5th from .68 to a .62 for highway fuel economy with 4.10's. Granted, it's quite a bit farther from 4th to 5th but I never hit 5th when "exercising" the car anyway. But with the T-56 looking more affordable
3.36/2.07/1.35/1.00/0.80/0.62 with 4.10's work for me.
Can you mix and match?? Hmmm...2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/0.74/0.50 with 4.30's or 4.56???
Changing the diff from 3.55 to 4.10 increases rpm by about 300 at 70? Changing the final gear in the trans from .68 to .62 would gain back about 200 rpm so fuel economy on the freeway would be pretty close to the same again.
I was thinking about looking into changing the 3650's 5th from .68 to a .62 for highway fuel economy with 4.10's. Granted, it's quite a bit farther from 4th to 5th but I never hit 5th when "exercising" the car anyway. But with the T-56 looking more affordable
3.36/2.07/1.35/1.00/0.80/0.62 with 4.10's work for me.
Can you mix and match?? Hmmm...2.97/2.07/1.43/1.00/0.74/0.50 with 4.30's or 4.56???
You can't really mix and match. Most gearsets are deterined by the first gear and overdrive. Keep in mind you'd be better off
3.36*4.10 = 13.78 over all ratio
2.97*4.56 = 13.54 over all ratio
not much difference
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Personally, after doing some more thinking I don't think it's worth the money for the little, if any, gain in fuel milage/performance that you would get. I'd rather spend the money on other mods or just save it for a rainy day.
Team Mustang Source
Joined: October 11, 2004
Posts: 711
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From: Surrey, BC
Originally posted by StangFreak@June 2, 2005, 8:53 PM
I can't quite see that being very cost effective??? For the amount of money you would have to spend to have some one pull the trans, disassemble it, install the new 5th gear and then put it all back together again you could have a killer set of ported heads or a bunch of other mods. Just my 2 cents.
I can't quite see that being very cost effective???
For the amount of money you would have to spend to have some one pull the trans, disassemble it, install the new 5th gear and then put it all back together again you could have a killer set of ported heads or a bunch of other mods. Just my 2 cents.BTW, can I put your 2 cents towards the cost of those new heads??
Thread Starter
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From: Orlando, FL
HHmm... forget the fuel economy... what about the limitations of the stock tranny on HP and torque? You would need a tranny swap the minute you go over 450, otherwise, the wise at Ford would've put the 5 speed on the GT500 since it's so great. The advantage IMO is that you can run better gears (4.10 to be conservative), see a HUGE improvement in responsiveness, launching ability, and still be able to have the same fuel consumption. Ask any of the guys running 4.10s what kind of gas mileage they are getting with the stock tranny! I've read as low as 13 in the city, as good as an H2 on the highway...
Anyways, if it wasn't worth putting, they would've not even consider it for the new GT500, what do ya'l think?
Anyways, if it wasn't worth putting, they would've not even consider it for the new GT500, what do ya'l think?
Bullitt Member
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Originally posted by rony1976@June 3, 2005, 7:26 AM
HHmm... forget the fuel economy... what about the limitations of the stock tranny on HP and torque? You would need a tranny swap the minute you go over 450, otherwise, the wise at Ford would've put the 5 speed on the GT500 since it's so great. The advantage IMO is that you can run better gears (4.10 to be conservative), see a HUGE improvement in responsiveness, launching ability, and still be able to have the same fuel consumption. Ask any of the guys running 4.10s what kind of gas mileage they are getting with the stock tranny! I've read as low as 13 in the city, as good as an H2 on the highway...
Anyways, if it wasn't worth putting, they would've not even consider it for the new GT500, what do ya'l think?
HHmm... forget the fuel economy... what about the limitations of the stock tranny on HP and torque? You would need a tranny swap the minute you go over 450, otherwise, the wise at Ford would've put the 5 speed on the GT500 since it's so great. The advantage IMO is that you can run better gears (4.10 to be conservative), see a HUGE improvement in responsiveness, launching ability, and still be able to have the same fuel consumption. Ask any of the guys running 4.10s what kind of gas mileage they are getting with the stock tranny! I've read as low as 13 in the city, as good as an H2 on the highway...
Anyways, if it wasn't worth putting, they would've not even consider it for the new GT500, what do ya'l think?
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Joined: May 18, 2004
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From: San Antonio, TX
Originally posted by rony1976@June 3, 2005, 7:26 AM
what about the limitations of the stock tranny on HP and torque?
what about the limitations of the stock tranny on HP and torque?
Thread Starter
Cobra Member
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From: Orlando, FL
I did read your post, and here's the homework I did... visit this site if you want to mess with the numbers...
http://www.dalesplace.com/htm/inform...calculator.htm
OK, here goes...
With the ford 6 speed specs, with 4.10s @ 75mph you'd be running at around 2300rpm.
With the ford 5 speed specs, 4.10s @75mph you'd be running at around 2600rpm
Torque limits from 350 stock to 450 with t-56.
Ok, So only 300rpm difference... the t-56 a little stronger than stock on every gear except for first, but what kind of difference would this make on mileage p/gallon? City/Hwy before and after...
http://www.dalesplace.com/htm/inform...calculator.htm
OK, here goes...
With the ford 6 speed specs, with 4.10s @ 75mph you'd be running at around 2300rpm.
With the ford 5 speed specs, 4.10s @75mph you'd be running at around 2600rpm
Torque limits from 350 stock to 450 with t-56.
Ok, So only 300rpm difference... the t-56 a little stronger than stock on every gear except for first, but what kind of difference would this make on mileage p/gallon? City/Hwy before and after...
Bullitt Member
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Too funny, thanks for the laugh after a long day.
I am well aware of how to calculate rpm/mph for gear ratios. When I was researching my tranny swap for my 66 I made a program that allowed me to input trans ratios, rear ratios, and tire sizes and it would generate a table of mph for gear ratio/rpm combinations. Here is the html version of the chart for the setup I went with
http://www.2mfffabshop.com/mycar.htm
If you really want to reduce your cruising rpm by 300 try driving at 74 mph, it would be alot less money and hassle.
If you are that dead set on putting a T-56 in your Mustang because that is what they put in the GT500 then more power to you.
I am well aware of how to calculate rpm/mph for gear ratios. When I was researching my tranny swap for my 66 I made a program that allowed me to input trans ratios, rear ratios, and tire sizes and it would generate a table of mph for gear ratio/rpm combinations. Here is the html version of the chart for the setup I went with
http://www.2mfffabshop.com/mycar.htm
If you really want to reduce your cruising rpm by 300 try driving at 74 mph, it would be alot less money and hassle.
If you are that dead set on putting a T-56 in your Mustang because that is what they put in the GT500 then more power to you.