cntchds

So, as many of you know, I have been planning on buying an FFR 65 Coupe
for a long while now. (Well a long time for a 15 year old)

The basic idea of FFR is to take a 5.0 Mustang, and every part that you don't get in the kit you can get off of your donor car.

So Arin and I have been talking, and he has told me that a 5.0 has the same dimensions as a 289. Is that true? Not that I doubt Arin's expertise, but I'm sure that one of you guys must know.

If I do go with a 289 and 4 speed of some sort what would I have to modify for it to fit with the rest of the drivetrain? I would assume the driveshaft would be the wrong length if I went with an early donor, and I have to use 5.0 parts for the suspension. So my most recent thought was to buy a cheap 289 with era tranny and buy or get the rest of the parts off of a 5.0. How much modification would I be looking at?

I know this is very broad but please give me a list anything you can think of.

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.

karman

There isn't a lot of diff. between the two, but be careful of the bell housing bolts.
The older ones (before '67) might have a diff. bolt pattern.
If you match the engine year and tranny year you may avoid that.

cntchds

Thanks for the engine help. I have an idea of a 289/tranny combo that should work out well as long as I get enough information to go through with it. Other drivetrain tidbits that would be problematic because of the switch from 5.0 to the 289 would be nice to hear about.

bob

Why mess with a 289/M4 combo? (other than for the sake of replicating the original drivetrain configuration?) - essentially you have 2 variations of Ford small blocks;short deck (221, 260, 289, 302), tall deck (351). Depending on the block you can stretch the short deck engine pretty far (380 cid, maybe a bit more - but this is on the ragged edge and is really only suited for an engine with an expected short life). You could go with a nice 302 and get 11 extra cubic inches and save some time and loot to boot.

cntchds

Basically I found a very cheap combination of the 289 with transmission and since that's what the originals had I thought it would be a nice touch. Especially if those would match up well with the mounts and so forth so I wouldn't have to have much fabricated up for me.

I understand a 289 in a street car was not even close to those that went into the Coupes or Cobras. It would be a sort of compliment to them though.

On the same frame of thought this engine could be modified to be similar to those era 289 race engines when I do have more funds. Carbs just have such a different feel to them than fuel injected. Not to mention the lack of computers would make the wiring and such more bareable, especially after the nightmares I've heard about the 5.0 bird's nest.

Again, if you feel the need to set me straight no need to hold back.

svopaul

Early production 289's had a 5 bolt bellhousing....this was in '64/early '65...everything else including the 302 and 351 had a 6 bolt bellhousing.

The 289 and 302 are physically identical in dimensions.

Word of advice....talk to a few people who have built the FFR coupe before buying...a good friend of mine just finished one not long ago and it's a gorgeous car...however there are a lot of complaints and problems to deal with when building the car. I watched him build the car from start to finish and you had better budget a lot for the body/paint work because the bodies are shipped VERY rough. Once he ordered and received the car many parts were backordered and even though he had paid for the car and received a bunch of it enough parts were backordered that he couldn't even start to build it for 4 months until the parts arrived. This is a much more difficult build than the FFR Cobra so be prepared.....

Also don't think you are going to have a running car for the $15-$20K entry fee....there are a lot more expenses. My friend has more than $40K in his.

bob

A buddy on mine is going through the same thing with the FFR roadster.

bob

Seems to me that the coupes and roadsters use a cable operated clutch and are designed to fit an internal rail transmission. T-5s are plentiful and cheap, so no problem there. If you have access to a 289 on the cheap, then it aint a big deal.

My advice would be to rebuild the short block and get a good set of heads and intake (there are many options for 1x4, 3x2, 2x4, 8x1, and probably soon and inline 4 from Barry Grant, who also does the 3x2 setup although the BG stuff is very very pricey), I say scrap the heads because Ford's early cylinderhead tech wasn't much better than the flathead stuff it replaced and rather than rebuild them, your money ahead by investing in a set of good aftermarket heads (you can try porting, but by them time you've set them up with good valves, springs, more than likely a conversion to an adjustable valvetrain) your nearly at or you have exceeded the cost of a good aftermarket head. A good basic engine would be something like that 289 topped with an edelbrock power package (heads, intake, cam, carb, ect) the short block doesn't have to be nothing fancy, make sure the crank is in good shape, clean up the rods and get good bolts for them, get a good piston/ring set (forged or cast) get it torque plate honed and invest in some new engine fastners, then dress it out like you want - biggest thing here, is an adequate oil supply (dont need nothing more than a stock volume pump, just need a good pan that holds 7 or 8 quarts of oil). Also for longevity's sake, conver to a hydraulic roller cam, not only do you get the benefit of the roller lifters, but you won't have to worry about destroying the cam and lifters due to modern oil formulations.

hi5.0

FYI, one of the members of a car club I was in had a genuine "continuation" Shelby Cobra with a very rough body as well - spent a lot of time and $$$ to make it right.

Stick with the 5.0/302 and T-5 combo - lots of modern upgrade parts available and you get a 5th gear to play with for better fuel economy, LOL.

cntchds

Yeah, fuel economy...

With the amount that I would have to do to a 289 to get it running good really isn't starting to add up well. Though I do still think it would be good to have.

So my question to those who say it is costing more than the original chunk of change that they expected, what was it that pushed their bank accounts more than they had hoped? Body? Powertrain?

If all the mounts work together properly (using the right engine/ transmission etc.) I can't see what could be the problem/ need of money there.

Body work I can see, however. I know it'll take work, but I have a couple guys who know what they are doing that are more than willing to give me a hand.

Parts that they needed that they didn't get with the kit or with the donor? Wiring has been beaten to death, but on a 5.0 is there something else that is prone to failure that has a more modern fix?

Thanks.

svopaul

Like I said, you need to talk to those who have built one.....some things that were extra were things to make it look less like a kit car and more like a real Daytona but there were a lot of other nickel and dime things as well. The frame comes raw...if you want it powdercoated(recommended) then that's extra....it goes on and on.

Research is your friend, not your enemy....talk to those who have built or are building them. Another friend of mine wanted to build one badly and I took him by my friends house to see his and talk to him....now he is NOT going to build one if that tells you anything.

I love the looks of the car and it's a really cool project that would be great to have but if you do not do the research you will be disappointed in what you find when the reality sets in of what you got yourself into. Marketing puts it out there as "$15K and a donor Mustang and you have a Daytona coupe"....I'll bet you won't find anyone who hasn't gone way past that budget so you need to realize that going in and go in with your eyes open and not banking on the "marketing" of the kit.

cntchds

I've been researching for quite a while. Many of the parts not fitting into the bits supplied by FFR like that of the radiator mounts and so forth. None of which CAN'T work, just that they have to be slightly reshaped and so on.

I want this, and I think I'm going to go this route..

Buy the 5.0, then next summer the kit. Use the 5.0 until the Daytona's parts and so forth are all in order.

Maybe if I bug Brad about it enough I could make it into a TMS project and maybe get in on some sponsor deals or something.

All joking aside, I want this more than anything else, and I'd be more than willing to take the time to do it right, and get enough cash to get it all done how I want it. I'm in no rush.

svopaul

That's fine....nothing wrong with wanting one, I wouldn't mind doing one myself but I have more than enough projects right now. Just forewarning you that you NEED to talk to those who have built one...trust me it will make your life easier if you know what to expect. If you plan a full recreation that looks the part of an original then plan on spending $40K...if you just want a kit car that can easily be noticed as one you'll spend less. I see a lot of people think that just because the kit says "$12K for the Cobra/$15K for the Daytona and a Mustang and you have a car" they believe it when that is not the case at all.

cntchds

Very few people know what the original car looks like to begin with. The main point of kit cars, in my opinion of course, is to do things that people would not do with the originals, or to make it seem as though it is an original. I'm hoping for a mixture of the two. Like I have said before I do want a carb'd engine instead of a fuel injected if I can find a good one, the rest of it should be the normal 5.0 parts.

I know quite a few owners/builders in the area, so I'll have to get in contact with some of them soon. Next weekend they are having a meet on Saturday so I'll have to stop by and get the inside scoop from them.

I understand that there is more work than just moving the bits from here to there and being done, but it'll be an experience.

Thank you for your help Paul, I'll keep you updated on what happens with the project as a whole when it starts moving from the "idea" stage to the "actuality" stage.