Rack & Pinion?
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Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 310
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as far as the rack goes i think that is money well spent for the ease of maintenance and the improvement it provides. if you were to buy buy a new gear box, control valve, power cylinder, idler arm, etc. you would be close to the cost randall's rack already. there is also a pretty significant weight reduction off the front of the vehicle too, which is always a god thing especially if someone has a big block. as far as the ps pump i would stay with stock ford pump, but that's just me. mine has served me well for many years and doesn't whine or anything, i have changed the pulley on mine to a larger diameter pulley so the steering effort is slightly higher than stock, and i get a little more feedback from the car, even with the current stock PS system. i WILL be buying a randall's rack within the next year or so, with any luck.
Member
Joined: March 5, 2005
Posts: 12
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Hi all,
I just joined this forum, but I've been reading this thread for a while. One thing I've noticed in virtually every classic Mustang forum/thread is the never-ending discussion of what to do about the factory steering.
I would like to introduce myself and tell you a little about my car. I am an engineer in the aerospace industry, and I 've been addicted to cars since I could hold a crayon. If you take the time to understand bumpsteer, you will have to understand how to determine the instant center of an SLA suspension. There are too many good articles in print and on the web to go into it here, so I won't take up space other than to recommend you educate yourself.
When I last had my '69 Mach 1 on the road with the factory power steering, and lowered upper arm, the bump steer coupled with fat tires (P255s) was downright dangerous at 80 mph. I decided to redesign the front suspension and steering myself. After redesigning and relocating the upper arms, I took careful measurements of all the pivot points in two dimensions and laid them out on graph paper in half scale. I then determined where the mathematical point of the inner tie rod pivot should be to achieve "zero" bump steer. I fabricated a centerlink to place the pivot point as close as practical to where my math said it should be, and using a Longacre bump steer guage, I took measurements. The Longacre guage gives results in inches, whereas to make a fair comparison with any other method or tool, it should be converted into degrees. Having said that, as long as you compare results using the same Longacre guage, you can compare apples to apples. At one inch of travel (easily achieved in daily driving) I was down to only a few thousandths of a "Longacre inch" of bumpsteer. I can't tell you how excited I was as this is truly race car territory. At two inches of travel, I was still down less than 0.020. This cannot be achieved with the stock centerlink period. It cannot be achieved with the centerlink at the stock location. It is simple geometry, and anyone willing to take the time can duplicate my results.
I designed my R&P using the GM Jcar rack, just as several other kits. Although it does lose some travel, it only becomes a problem if you try to make a tight u-turn. In a daily driver in a high traffic area, or if you are autocrossing on a tight course, that is a real concern, but it won't come into play on an open track car unless there is a hairpin turn. All of the feed back I have received so far (from other kits using the GM J car rack) is that this was a worthwhile tradeoff to gain the performace of a rack. When I started my design, the only kit offered was Randall's. There were aspects of his design I wasn't satisfied with so I did my own, but from my dealing with him, he is an honest man, charges a fair price and has many satisfied customers.
I don't want to spam your forum, but I am in the process of starting my own business. My car is nearing completion, and I will be getting some real world driving results hopefully by early April. If anyone is interested, I will be glad to answer questions.
69 G-machine
I just joined this forum, but I've been reading this thread for a while. One thing I've noticed in virtually every classic Mustang forum/thread is the never-ending discussion of what to do about the factory steering.
I would like to introduce myself and tell you a little about my car. I am an engineer in the aerospace industry, and I 've been addicted to cars since I could hold a crayon. If you take the time to understand bumpsteer, you will have to understand how to determine the instant center of an SLA suspension. There are too many good articles in print and on the web to go into it here, so I won't take up space other than to recommend you educate yourself.
When I last had my '69 Mach 1 on the road with the factory power steering, and lowered upper arm, the bump steer coupled with fat tires (P255s) was downright dangerous at 80 mph. I decided to redesign the front suspension and steering myself. After redesigning and relocating the upper arms, I took careful measurements of all the pivot points in two dimensions and laid them out on graph paper in half scale. I then determined where the mathematical point of the inner tie rod pivot should be to achieve "zero" bump steer. I fabricated a centerlink to place the pivot point as close as practical to where my math said it should be, and using a Longacre bump steer guage, I took measurements. The Longacre guage gives results in inches, whereas to make a fair comparison with any other method or tool, it should be converted into degrees. Having said that, as long as you compare results using the same Longacre guage, you can compare apples to apples. At one inch of travel (easily achieved in daily driving) I was down to only a few thousandths of a "Longacre inch" of bumpsteer. I can't tell you how excited I was as this is truly race car territory. At two inches of travel, I was still down less than 0.020. This cannot be achieved with the stock centerlink period. It cannot be achieved with the centerlink at the stock location. It is simple geometry, and anyone willing to take the time can duplicate my results.
I designed my R&P using the GM Jcar rack, just as several other kits. Although it does lose some travel, it only becomes a problem if you try to make a tight u-turn. In a daily driver in a high traffic area, or if you are autocrossing on a tight course, that is a real concern, but it won't come into play on an open track car unless there is a hairpin turn. All of the feed back I have received so far (from other kits using the GM J car rack) is that this was a worthwhile tradeoff to gain the performace of a rack. When I started my design, the only kit offered was Randall's. There were aspects of his design I wasn't satisfied with so I did my own, but from my dealing with him, he is an honest man, charges a fair price and has many satisfied customers.
I don't want to spam your forum, but I am in the process of starting my own business. My car is nearing completion, and I will be getting some real world driving results hopefully by early April. If anyone is interested, I will be glad to answer questions.
69 G-machine
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Originally posted by 69gmachine@March 5, 2005, 8:19 AM
Hi all,
I just joined this forum, but I've been reading this thread for a while. One thing I've noticed in virtually every classic Mustang forum/thread is the never-ending discussion of what to do about the factory steering.
I would like to introduce myself and tell you a little about my car. I am an engineer in the aerospace industry, and I 've been addicted to cars since I could hold a crayon. If you take the time to understand bumpsteer, you will have to understand how to determine the instant center of an SLA suspension. There are too many good articles in print and on the web to go into it here, so I won't take up space other than to recommend you educate yourself.
When I last had my '69 Mach 1 on the road with the factory power steering, and lowered upper arm, the bump steer coupled with fat tires (P255s) was downright dangerous at 80 mph. I decided to redesign the front suspension and steering myself. After redesigning and relocating the upper arms, I took careful measurements of all the pivot points in two dimensions and laid them out on graph paper in half scale. I then determined where the mathematical point of the inner tie rod pivot should be to achieve "zero" bump steer. I fabricated a centerlink to place the pivot point as close as practical to where my math said it should be, and using a Longacre bump steer guage, I took measurements. The Longacre guage gives results in inches, whereas to make a fair comparison with any other method or tool, it should be converted into degrees. Having said that, as long as you compare results using the same Longacre guage, you can compare apples to apples. At one inch of travel (easily achieved in daily driving) I was down to only a few thousandths of a "Longacre inch" of bumpsteer. I can't tell you how excited I was as this is truly race car territory. At two inches of travel, I was still down less than 0.020. This cannot be achieved with the stock centerlink period. It cannot be achieved with the centerlink at the stock location. It is simple geometry, and anyone willing to take the time can duplicate my results.
I designed my R&P using the GM Jcar rack, just as several other kits. Although it does lose some travel, it only becomes a problem if you try to make a tight u-turn. In a daily driver in a high traffic area, or if you are autocrossing on a tight course, that is a real concern, but it won't come into play on an open track car unless there is a hairpin turn. All of the feed back I have received so far (from other kits using the GM J car rack) is that this was a worthwhile tradeoff to gain the performace of a rack. When I started my design, the only kit offered was Randall's. There were aspects of his design I wasn't satisfied with so I did my own, but from my dealing with him, he is an honest man, charges a fair price and has many satisfied customers.
I don't want to spam your forum, but I am in the process of starting my own business. My car is nearing completion, and I will be getting some real world driving results hopefully by early April. If anyone is interested, I will be glad to answer questions.
69 G-machine
Hi all,
I just joined this forum, but I've been reading this thread for a while. One thing I've noticed in virtually every classic Mustang forum/thread is the never-ending discussion of what to do about the factory steering.
I would like to introduce myself and tell you a little about my car. I am an engineer in the aerospace industry, and I 've been addicted to cars since I could hold a crayon. If you take the time to understand bumpsteer, you will have to understand how to determine the instant center of an SLA suspension. There are too many good articles in print and on the web to go into it here, so I won't take up space other than to recommend you educate yourself.
When I last had my '69 Mach 1 on the road with the factory power steering, and lowered upper arm, the bump steer coupled with fat tires (P255s) was downright dangerous at 80 mph. I decided to redesign the front suspension and steering myself. After redesigning and relocating the upper arms, I took careful measurements of all the pivot points in two dimensions and laid them out on graph paper in half scale. I then determined where the mathematical point of the inner tie rod pivot should be to achieve "zero" bump steer. I fabricated a centerlink to place the pivot point as close as practical to where my math said it should be, and using a Longacre bump steer guage, I took measurements. The Longacre guage gives results in inches, whereas to make a fair comparison with any other method or tool, it should be converted into degrees. Having said that, as long as you compare results using the same Longacre guage, you can compare apples to apples. At one inch of travel (easily achieved in daily driving) I was down to only a few thousandths of a "Longacre inch" of bumpsteer. I can't tell you how excited I was as this is truly race car territory. At two inches of travel, I was still down less than 0.020. This cannot be achieved with the stock centerlink period. It cannot be achieved with the centerlink at the stock location. It is simple geometry, and anyone willing to take the time can duplicate my results.
I designed my R&P using the GM Jcar rack, just as several other kits. Although it does lose some travel, it only becomes a problem if you try to make a tight u-turn. In a daily driver in a high traffic area, or if you are autocrossing on a tight course, that is a real concern, but it won't come into play on an open track car unless there is a hairpin turn. All of the feed back I have received so far (from other kits using the GM J car rack) is that this was a worthwhile tradeoff to gain the performace of a rack. When I started my design, the only kit offered was Randall's. There were aspects of his design I wasn't satisfied with so I did my own, but from my dealing with him, he is an honest man, charges a fair price and has many satisfied customers.
I don't want to spam your forum, but I am in the process of starting my own business. My car is nearing completion, and I will be getting some real world driving results hopefully by early April. If anyone is interested, I will be glad to answer questions.
69 G-machine
Member
Joined: March 1, 2005
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
I put a manual TCP rack in my 67, total cost was just under $1,000. If you are using the stock steering wheel (1967 woodgrain factory wheel in my case) the large diameter gives more than enough mechanical leverage to move it at any speed. Parking lot speeds require a bit more effort of course, so for a daily driver or a small driver this may be an issue. But on the highway or boulevard I like the heavier feel of manual steering anyhow. I also had no trouble clearing an 8 quart oil pan or long tube headers.
I also used a factory column out of a 68 to replace the solid one in my 67. The added safety might be marginal but the peace of mind is probably worth the swap.
I also used a factory column out of a 68 to replace the solid one in my 67. The added safety might be marginal but the peace of mind is probably worth the swap.
Member
Joined: March 5, 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
got any pics of your system?
[/quote]
The centerlink in this pic is a welded prototype used only to obtain measurements. Production parts will be CNC machined from a single piece of 4340 steel. Since this picture was taken, the engine and tranny have been installed, as well as the front suspension and brakes. The car is on jack stands, too low to get good pics from underneath, but hopefully I'll be getting those shots pretty soon.
[/quote]
The centerlink in this pic is a welded prototype used only to obtain measurements. Production parts will be CNC machined from a single piece of 4340 steel. Since this picture was taken, the engine and tranny have been installed, as well as the front suspension and brakes. The car is on jack stands, too low to get good pics from underneath, but hopefully I'll be getting those shots pretty soon.
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by 69gmachine,March 5, 2005, 9:05 PM
got any pics of your system?
[/quote]
cool, keep us updated on the progress, looks like it will work nice.
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