Sound familiar to anyone?

Common themes - Granada brakes, modified front suspension, and 7-8" wide wheels. Everybody running that combination on a 65/66 seems to have problems with "floating at speed", due to bumpsteer.

I hate Granada brake swaps for performance applications! If you're doing anything more than the Shelby drop, and putting wide, sticky tires on, DON'T use Granada brakes! I'd bet that this is at least the 20th person I've chatted with who has the same issue! :nono:

 

This "disease" is brought on us by the stupid friggin' magazines that continue to list this and other stupid modifications as the "Top 50 Restomod Tricks" and other garbage articles like that.

I have yet to see a magazine article mention any of these problems... do they even road test a car after the installs? Probably not... they continue to recycle an article and photos taken 15-20 years ago.

 

Dangit Bob, don't make me feel worse than I already do. I was a genius back in '96 when I put them on my car. Now I wish I could've put that money toward a quality aftermarket set up. :notnice:

 

Hang on a sec guys... Read that stuff again... For PERFORMANCE applications... you're putting big tires on... you're doing a whole bunch of other changes...

I have Granada brakes, I'm not planning on going any farther right now for what I have, and they DON'T HAVE PROBLEMS...

Instead of calling the swap a "disease", why not call it what it is... "Poor Man's Disc Brakes"... I'd take discs like this over the standard drums any day..

 

Rich,
That's fine but every guy eventually gets the coin together for a set of TT2s or whatever and that's when you'll find the problem. I have not taken the time to do a budget brake swap calculation using something besides the Granada route but if someone is considering it they should really look at some of the more affordable options now available.

Why not do the RC Motorsports setup for $349 and keep your suspension geometry intact:

 

My Car:

- Granada Brake swap
- Maier 600 lb/in springs
- 15 x 7.5" wheels
- Shelby drop
- Stock control arms with hard rubber bushings
- 1" sway bar
- Koni shocks adjusted full hard

Still handles like a race car.
I'm not arguing the point, but the Granada swap does not always cause a problem. I suspect I don't have a problem because I have a very stiff suspension. Gobs of bumpsteer means nothing if you don't have the travel to make it happen. Would I do something different if I was doing it now? Sure. But as it stands I'll keep the Granada's as long as they don't cause me a problem.

 

Hey Jay,
Do you know if the Rod and Custom setup changes the track width from stock?

 

That kit is the reason I decided not to go with Grenadas. You can get into that kit for about the same price as you would end up if you went with the Grenada setup.

 

No idea on the track width question.

 

Finally stirred a little traffic around here...

Does anybody know if topless66 ever got her suspension headache sorted? She's disappeared. Jim, have you got your new rims mounted yet? Rich, how's the car running - any road trips yet?

I said "If you're doing anything more than the Shelby drop, and putting wide, sticky tires on... Jim & Rich are running only the Shelby drop, and fairly narrow tires (205/215(?)) on 14/15" rims. When you go to a 225 or 235 tire on a 16x8 or 17x8 wheel, the tire no longer slips or flexes. BIG difference right there.

For example: As you jack a car up (under the crossmember), you'll note that the tire actually moves closer to the center of the car (scrub radius). With shorter arms or a larger front arm drop, the movement becomes even larger. With the sticky tires I have on, I can actually jack the front up under the crossmember, and set it back down with the suspension staying fully extended. The tires have so much grip, that they do not slide back out at all, even on smooth concrete. If I put some 205-15's on, it would settle back with a bounce or two on the bumper.

Second, all early Mustangs have bumpsteer. Anybody who says their's doesn't has never checked/measured it. It wouldn't be unusual for a STOCK car to have 1/2" of toe change! Don't believe me? Jack the front end up again until the tires are just off the pavement. Measure your toe-in. I'd bet you Granada guys have anywhere from 1/2" to 1" of toe-in that wasn't there at rest, even with stock control arms. Rich, remember the amount of toe change on a certain 66 Shelby when the engine was out??? :nono: And that was with stock type stuff! Any time you change to Granada spindles, you end up turning the adjusters IN on each side. That shortens the tie rod assembly - you didn't shorten the lower control arm, so you now have an even greater difference between the length of the two.

Finally, many of the suspension mods that have been done thruout the years are simply ways of masking the problems. Stiff springs mask toe change under braking/turning. However, they only support the car, and have no effect on the amount of front end lift - it takes the same amount of force to lift the front 3" (from static) with 1000# springs as it would to lift it if there were 100# springs under it. You'll note that the corral poster is having trouble at speed and under heavy acceleration...
Now, stiff shocks, and stiff bushings can help create bind that would then add the unsprung suspension weight to the amount being "lifted". Binding and added unsprung weight really aren't what you're after in a performance situation though. The whole idea is for the suspension to move and keep the tire in contact with the ground.

Granada brakes have their place on nearly stock suspensions.
However, in a performance application with wide,sticky tires and suspension mods BEYOND the "shelby drop", the geometry will haunt you...

 

Bob,
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I never said my Mustang or any Mustang didn't have bumpsteer. I just stated that it hasn't been a problem for me. But you need to know that I have used 225/50 tires on 16 x 8 rims and I didn't have any trouble at all. And the tires werwe Falken Azenis, which are as close to a road race tire as any street tire I've ever used. But the effects of bumpsteer are limited if you don't have a lot of suspension travel, and I don't.
My only point here is that the problem usually gets blamed on the Granada swap when in reality it's the combination of parts used. Just like hi-po exhaust manifolds work well on a relatively stock 289 but not an a hot 347.
Doesn't mean the manifolds are junk, just that they are wrong for that combination.
Having the wrong combination on an engine or in a suspension or brake system is always a bad thing, but it doesn't make the parts themselves bad.
I do agree with you that the magazines are doing a disservice not making readers aware of this mismatch. But then again, Mustangs and Fords claimed that putting headers on their 347 made 100 hp, when in reality the difference was that the hi-po manifolds were choking the engine. :bang:

 

 

Are you teasing me with beer? Don't tease me with beer!

 

So what is the most cost effective way to add disc,s...I,m about to do something soon..The wilwood set-up looks complicated.

 

look about 9 posts above yours
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One quick question...

If you had a stock 68 cougar disk break set up AND a Granada set us, Which would you use on your driver?

Bob

 

Depends on the driver? What year/make/model?

 

I'd use both. I'm not sure how, but I've heard the more braking surface area you have the better.

 

Doh...sorry.

67 mustang coupe, shelby drop, global west upper control arms, shortened springs, kyb shocks, stock lower control/stearing.

Bob

 

68 Cougar discs, no contest. Same braking potential as the Grenada, no funky geometry issues.
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