FAQ: Adding front disc brakes
8/2/04, 08:34 AM
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Whether it is the ubiquitous Granada retrofit, or one of the many options from the aftermarket, front disc brakes are a common upgrade.
Although my personal car has been converted to Granada front brakes, I think I'll leave that particular subject up to Cloney, who will undoubtedly be in here soon with more research and math than I can get my head around to add some insight into that option. However, I will add that I have 8 years of wonderful service out of my Granada brakes and spindles, and the price certainly could not be beat.
I'll start with a link to a favorite among classic Mustangers, Stainless Steel Brakes Corp.
http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/
Although my personal car has been converted to Granada front brakes, I think I'll leave that particular subject up to Cloney, who will undoubtedly be in here soon with more research and math than I can get my head around to add some insight into that option. However, I will add that I have 8 years of wonderful service out of my Granada brakes and spindles, and the price certainly could not be beat.
I'll start with a link to a favorite among classic Mustangers, Stainless Steel Brakes Corp.
http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/
8/2/04, 09:03 AM
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I'll tell of my experiences, which are OEM Ford disc brakes as they came from the factory. I'll let others tell you about aftermarket and crossover parts.
Picture of OEM 65-67 discs
First, in a 65-66 Mustang, you could originally get manual drums, power drums, or manual discs. An OEM power booster will not allow the OEM disc brake master cylinder to fit. It runs into the shock tower. There are ways around this, discussed later.
OEM Mustang disc calipers: 65-67 used Kelsey-Hayes 4 piston fixed calipers, and any of these can be used interchangably, with the exception that the 67 caliper utilized a larger hose connection. The calipers are expensive to buy, and just as expensive to rebuild. But when working properly, they work very well. Starting in 68, the calipers evolved to a single piston, floating design. These calipers are cheap to buy and service.
Picture of half of the 65-67 caliper
OEM Mustang rotors: The rotors originally were a two piece design, but modern replacements are one piece. Again, either will work, and only a concours judge will know the difference.
OEM master cylinder: The Mustang disc brake master cylinder is different than the drum master cylinder. Disc brakes require more fluid to actuate the brakes, so the reservoir is larger. The disc brakes also don't require a residual valve that is present in the drum master cylinders. The original Ford disc brake master cylinder, also known as a Jelly Jar, uses the same reservoir for both front and rear brakes. For this reason, it is not as safe as a dual reservoir and a diverter valve. But if you keep up the maintenance on your car, and you wish to keep it stock looking, there is no real reason to avoid the OEM Jelly Jar. I have one on mine.
Proportioning valve: If converting from drums to discs, you'll need to install a proportioning valve. If you don't, the rear brakes will lock up before the fronts, sending you into the ditch. The proportioning valve mounts inline to the rear brakes, and reduces, or delays the hydraulic pressure to the rear brakes. The Ford units from the sixties can be purchased and rebuilt, or an aftermarket unit can be used.
Distribution block vs Diverter valve: Not necessarily the same thing. A distribution block simply takes fluid from an input and routes it to several outputs. A diverter valve (found on 67 and newer) does the distribution as well as separates the front and rear braking systems, should one of them fail. A nice safety feature, but requires a dual master cylinder.
Power discs: I have manual discs/drums on my 66, and they are more than adequate. An upgrade over power drums for sure. But if you would like power discs, you'll need to modify or go aftermarket. All major vendors sell a booster/dual master cylinder that will bolt in, but it will cost you 3 bills to do that. You can also utilize a foxbody (79-93 Mustang, 80 Fairmont) booster and a Maverick master cylinder to do the conversion. Keep in mind that the foxbody booster has a slightly different bolt pattern on the firewall, and the pedal support will need to be reinforced for the new holes you'll need to drill. Relocating the pedal pin will also result in better feel. Mustangsteve.com sells this kit.
The disc brake upgrade is one of the best things you can do to your pony.
Picture of OEM 65-67 discs
First, in a 65-66 Mustang, you could originally get manual drums, power drums, or manual discs. An OEM power booster will not allow the OEM disc brake master cylinder to fit. It runs into the shock tower. There are ways around this, discussed later.
OEM Mustang disc calipers: 65-67 used Kelsey-Hayes 4 piston fixed calipers, and any of these can be used interchangably, with the exception that the 67 caliper utilized a larger hose connection. The calipers are expensive to buy, and just as expensive to rebuild. But when working properly, they work very well. Starting in 68, the calipers evolved to a single piston, floating design. These calipers are cheap to buy and service.
Picture of half of the 65-67 caliper
OEM Mustang rotors: The rotors originally were a two piece design, but modern replacements are one piece. Again, either will work, and only a concours judge will know the difference.
OEM master cylinder: The Mustang disc brake master cylinder is different than the drum master cylinder. Disc brakes require more fluid to actuate the brakes, so the reservoir is larger. The disc brakes also don't require a residual valve that is present in the drum master cylinders. The original Ford disc brake master cylinder, also known as a Jelly Jar, uses the same reservoir for both front and rear brakes. For this reason, it is not as safe as a dual reservoir and a diverter valve. But if you keep up the maintenance on your car, and you wish to keep it stock looking, there is no real reason to avoid the OEM Jelly Jar. I have one on mine.
Proportioning valve: If converting from drums to discs, you'll need to install a proportioning valve. If you don't, the rear brakes will lock up before the fronts, sending you into the ditch. The proportioning valve mounts inline to the rear brakes, and reduces, or delays the hydraulic pressure to the rear brakes. The Ford units from the sixties can be purchased and rebuilt, or an aftermarket unit can be used.
Distribution block vs Diverter valve: Not necessarily the same thing. A distribution block simply takes fluid from an input and routes it to several outputs. A diverter valve (found on 67 and newer) does the distribution as well as separates the front and rear braking systems, should one of them fail. A nice safety feature, but requires a dual master cylinder.
Power discs: I have manual discs/drums on my 66, and they are more than adequate. An upgrade over power drums for sure. But if you would like power discs, you'll need to modify or go aftermarket. All major vendors sell a booster/dual master cylinder that will bolt in, but it will cost you 3 bills to do that. You can also utilize a foxbody (79-93 Mustang, 80 Fairmont) booster and a Maverick master cylinder to do the conversion. Keep in mind that the foxbody booster has a slightly different bolt pattern on the firewall, and the pedal support will need to be reinforced for the new holes you'll need to drill. Relocating the pedal pin will also result in better feel. Mustangsteve.com sells this kit.
The disc brake upgrade is one of the best things you can do to your pony.
8/2/04, 09:20 AM
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8/2/04, 12:40 PM
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I can cover my experiences with several disc brake options...
I began my road to acceptable braking with the Granada disc conversion. I managed to pick up a junkyard setup like everyone else. It seemed really cheap and a great way to go from drum to disc. So after pulling it all apart I was left with the spindles and caliper brackets and then a pile of junk I used as cores. The yard ripped me off by not including the wedge and pin that holds the caliper in the bracket so I had to buy that elsewhere.
Anyhow I installed the whole setup and found the Mustang II brake hoses fit perfect and were considerably cheaper. A straightforward swap turned into a handling nightmare. The Granada spindles induced more bumpsteer than I considered acceptable, they were also messing with my camber. It was not worth the mess. I spent months and hundreds of dollars more in bumpsteer kits and front end alignments ... trying to remove the problem that could not be removed.
So I dumped the whole mess and made another attempt with a front and rear kit from Aerospace Components. The price was unbelieveable until I started installing it. Sure it is cheap, but that's because they leave out the parts most other aftermarket kits include such as the hoses, lines, master cylinder etc. The AC kit is also rather universal in that it has very long lugs and slide on spacers to make it work on your car. In the end I realized this was a "track" only kit and suitable for quick 1/4 mile runs on the flat but not pot hole battles on the open road. Besides I could never get them to bleed properly or operate correctly.
So with my frustration at its peak I decided that brakes are as critical if not more than any other component of the vehicle so I used the plastic and did it in a way I would have no regrets or second guesses. I called up Baer and ordered a Track kit for the front and Touring kit for the rear directly. They assured me everything I would need was included and were very helpful with my questions/concerns.
About 2 months later the kit arrived and since this was going on my '67 the master cylinder was not supplied (only on 65/66). Of course I had to make my own hard lines but the hoses were all there etc. To compliment the upgrade I also plunked down the card for the JMC billect master cylinder setup since I really liked how that thing had an optional cap system with an air valve to power bleed the system.
At the time Baer had not come up with an e-brake cable setup to fit the stock handle so I had to wait a year, but when it was ready I ordered one up and it went in perfect.
In the end the Baer combined with the JMC master cylinder proved to be perfect, perhaps the best set of brakes I've ever felt (better than my 00 GTs power setup). The pedal is very stiff with the JMC, but I have adjusted. No regrets.
I began my road to acceptable braking with the Granada disc conversion. I managed to pick up a junkyard setup like everyone else. It seemed really cheap and a great way to go from drum to disc. So after pulling it all apart I was left with the spindles and caliper brackets and then a pile of junk I used as cores. The yard ripped me off by not including the wedge and pin that holds the caliper in the bracket so I had to buy that elsewhere.
Anyhow I installed the whole setup and found the Mustang II brake hoses fit perfect and were considerably cheaper. A straightforward swap turned into a handling nightmare. The Granada spindles induced more bumpsteer than I considered acceptable, they were also messing with my camber. It was not worth the mess. I spent months and hundreds of dollars more in bumpsteer kits and front end alignments ... trying to remove the problem that could not be removed.
So I dumped the whole mess and made another attempt with a front and rear kit from Aerospace Components. The price was unbelieveable until I started installing it. Sure it is cheap, but that's because they leave out the parts most other aftermarket kits include such as the hoses, lines, master cylinder etc. The AC kit is also rather universal in that it has very long lugs and slide on spacers to make it work on your car. In the end I realized this was a "track" only kit and suitable for quick 1/4 mile runs on the flat but not pot hole battles on the open road. Besides I could never get them to bleed properly or operate correctly.
So with my frustration at its peak I decided that brakes are as critical if not more than any other component of the vehicle so I used the plastic and did it in a way I would have no regrets or second guesses. I called up Baer and ordered a Track kit for the front and Touring kit for the rear directly. They assured me everything I would need was included and were very helpful with my questions/concerns.
About 2 months later the kit arrived and since this was going on my '67 the master cylinder was not supplied (only on 65/66). Of course I had to make my own hard lines but the hoses were all there etc. To compliment the upgrade I also plunked down the card for the JMC billect master cylinder setup since I really liked how that thing had an optional cap system with an air valve to power bleed the system.
At the time Baer had not come up with an e-brake cable setup to fit the stock handle so I had to wait a year, but when it was ready I ordered one up and it went in perfect.
In the end the Baer combined with the JMC master cylinder proved to be perfect, perhaps the best set of brakes I've ever felt (better than my 00 GTs power setup). The pedal is very stiff with the JMC, but I have adjusted. No regrets.
8/2/04, 08:48 PM
#5
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Originally posted by Mberglo@August 2, 2004, 9:06 AM
I'll tell of my experiences, which are OEM Ford disc brakes as they came from the factory. I'll let others tell you about aftermarket and crossover parts.
I'll tell of my experiences, which are OEM Ford disc brakes as they came from the factory. I'll let others tell you about aftermarket and crossover parts.
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