Dynacorn New Steel body replacement
4/16/07, 11:13 PM
#1
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Dynacorn New Steel body replacement
I was just reading the latest Hot Rod mag on the new steel body replacement "part". It is for all practical purposes all the steel parts of a 67 fastback pre-assembled for you. I know there are certain legal issues around calling it a real 67 Mustang or even swapping your VIN to this new steel body. I just wanted to hear from fellow Mustang lovers, is this a good thing or a bad thing. I own a 68 coupe and a 67 convertable I bought from the original owner, but the fastback continues to elude me. Everyone I see for sale seems to have become an Elanore already and I'm not a fan of the Elanore look. For 16k plus a donor car it's like 67 again.
4/17/07, 08:02 AM
#2
Needs to be more Astony
I am all for restamped 67 fastbacks. Its sucha great car, It sad to see BJ Auction and stuff jacking up the prices that noraml people can't enjoy such a car.
So yeah, I think its great. Bring the mustang back to the working class.
So yeah, I think its great. Bring the mustang back to the working class.
4/17/07, 09:07 AM
#3
Team Mustang Source Legacy Member
I could be wrong, but I thought you had to move a VIN plate to this body (just like on the Camaros) to make it legal. So that would be the hard part, I would think, finding the VIN plate and a title from a '67 fastback.
4/17/07, 09:27 AM
#5
Service Manager
I am curious as to how they plan to get around the whole VIN issue....because if you swap VIN's then what's to stop people from doing the same with an old AC Cobra VIN and making a killing?!? Making it a Kit car like the Cobra replicas is the only legitimate solution.
4/17/07, 09:39 AM
#6
Team Mustang Source Legacy Member
you're not transfering a VIN to a new vehicle, you're replacing the whole body (body only, not frame, engine, etc) of an existing VIN. How is that illegal?
From Dynacorn's FAQ (helps to actually read up on what you're talking about).
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com...aq.asp?faqid=3
From Dynacorn's FAQ (helps to actually read up on what you're talking about).
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com...aq.asp?faqid=3
4/17/07, 09:44 AM
#7
Service Manager
It is a unibody car so what you are replacing IS the frame of the vehicle which is why the VIN is stamped and riveted to that part of the vehicle. There is no "Frame" to remove from a Mustang.
4/17/07, 09:54 AM
#8
Team Mustang Source Legacy Member
And you can still replace the frame on a vehicle. As long as you have the legal VIN plate and title to go with it, you can replace the entire thing with brand new parts. Still not illegal. You still have the VIN plate (you can even replace that, actually) and have a legal car. You just can't try to pass off either the new car or the old one both as the same car. And mis-representing a replaced vehicle as original would be fraud.
There might be nuances and percentages of the original car required by your state, but that's why they say to check with local rules regarding registration. So maybe to suggestion here should be to check with your local regulations regarding building up a new car with replacement parts or replacing a full unibody of an existing car, instead of screaming Chicken Little style "It's Illegal!"
There might be nuances and percentages of the original car required by your state, but that's why they say to check with local rules regarding registration. So maybe to suggestion here should be to check with your local regulations regarding building up a new car with replacement parts or replacing a full unibody of an existing car, instead of screaming Chicken Little style "It's Illegal!"
4/17/07, 10:15 AM
#9
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the way i look at it is this.. there is one company that creates some ugly representations of a 67 fast back, and to build these they are completely evaporating the market for anyone (read, you/me) to own a 67 fastback mustang. Now they are doing the same thing with 65/66 fastbacks. So now you can just buy a complete rustbucket and spend 15grand instead of on cutting and welding a junk body, on a whole new one. which is awesome. i dont know if there is a single first gen mustang that is in the northeast that does not need a new cowl at some point. So this takes care of that. i love it. And i think you can get away with VIN swapping. i mean if you buy a donor and swap the whole running gear and interior into a new body its till basically the old car with new sheetmetal.
4/17/07, 11:05 AM
#10
Service Manager
And you can still replace the frame on a vehicle. As long as you have the legal VIN plate and title to go with it, you can replace the entire thing with brand new parts. Still not illegal. You still have the VIN plate (you can even replace that, actually) and have a legal car. You just can't try to pass off either the new car or the old one both as the same car. And mis-representing a replaced vehicle as original would be fraud.
There might be nuances and percentages of the original car required by your state, but that's why they say to check with local rules regarding registration. So maybe to suggestion here should be to check with your local regulations regarding building up a new car with replacement parts or replacing a full unibody of an existing car, instead of screaming Chicken Little style "It's Illegal!"
There might be nuances and percentages of the original car required by your state, but that's why they say to check with local rules regarding registration. So maybe to suggestion here should be to check with your local regulations regarding building up a new car with replacement parts or replacing a full unibody of an existing car, instead of screaming Chicken Little style "It's Illegal!"
You absolutely CANNOT replace the VIN plate....Years ago there were reproductions made but no longer....How do I know? My '68 Cougar is missing the dash VIN plate and I've talked with Marti Autoworks and it is not possible or legal from Ford to reproduce that plate...hence why they no longer do it.
How many people....be honest with yourself and realistic here...do you think are going to disclose that they rebodied the car and swapped VIN plates?!? VERY FEW is the answer....magically you will so a lot of so called "Rust Free" Originals show up. Of course it is not legal to misrepresent a car but it happens now and this will only promote more of it and allow another avenue for these people to take.
I am not screaming "chicken little" and it is quite foolish and Naive for you to think otherwise. I guess my viewpoint wasn't valid then Mustangs Plus would not have printed my point of view in their magazine...would they? and they did. I am also in the business of auto restoration professionally which means that I do have a clue what I am talking about and not just someone dreaming trying to justify any way I can to get a '67 Fastback....these are REAL concerns and REAL issues and I have yet to find a state that says "SURE go ahead and swap VIN plates". Even the most liberal state is going to require a ton of paperwork and documentation IF they allow it at all and IF they don't assign their own State issued identification number.
It is really irresponsible and foolish for you to just go on a forum and suggest to everyone that swapping VIN plates is OK and legal...only when challenged do you bring up "checking with State officials". This whole Dynacorn thing is new to the hobby and nothing has been settled yet as to how it will or can be handled so I would suggest you do your research before encouraging others to do something that could land them in a mess of legal troubles and/or jail.
4/17/07, 11:35 AM
#11
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registering it as a kit car that happens to resemble a 67 mustang astback is the proper way to go. i believe chevy has licensed the camaro name to the dynacorn company to sell the car as a 69 camaro convertible.
no matter how you look at it, i think this is a good thing. build the 67 the way you want it.
no matter how you look at it, i think this is a good thing. build the 67 the way you want it.
4/17/07, 12:23 PM
#13
Service Manager
Again, you need to be informed....Not all states have a title. Alabama and some other states like Georgia, New Hampshire, etc transfer vehicle ownership by a bill of sale. The year range is different by state...Georgia and New Hampshire are 1986 and older and Alabama is 1976 and older so someone could just have a VIN plate with no title and register the vehicle in another state.....
While I agree that the Eleanor craze has hurt the hobby by keeping the fastbacks out of the hands of the average enthusiast there are a lot of things to consider.
Example: In the state of Maryland it is absolutely illegal to transfer a VIN plate ANYWHERE other than were it was originally affixed(hence the reason for special rivets used) but it is NOT illegal in that state to possess VIN plates.....with that said anyone could claim they "collect" VIN plates but really why would someone do so unless they intended to profit from it down the road. This is where registries come in very handy to track cars and what happened to them. What makes cars rare and/or valuable or even collectible is the fact that there are not as many as there once was....now there is potential for VIN numbers that have been "collected" over the years to be put back into use and voila!! 10 years from now there are just as many '67 Fastbacks as they made back in 1967....now not everyone is completely educated and while the original "restorer" of said car may have disclosed it to the guy he sold it to....THAT guy may not and so on and so on.....eventually someone is going to be sold the car as an original and they may not have the knowledge to be able to tell any different and they are misled and Fraud occurs in one form or another.
Everyone who wants a Cobra can have one in a Kit car and this should be no differently treated.
While I agree that the Eleanor craze has hurt the hobby by keeping the fastbacks out of the hands of the average enthusiast there are a lot of things to consider.
Example: In the state of Maryland it is absolutely illegal to transfer a VIN plate ANYWHERE other than were it was originally affixed(hence the reason for special rivets used) but it is NOT illegal in that state to possess VIN plates.....with that said anyone could claim they "collect" VIN plates but really why would someone do so unless they intended to profit from it down the road. This is where registries come in very handy to track cars and what happened to them. What makes cars rare and/or valuable or even collectible is the fact that there are not as many as there once was....now there is potential for VIN numbers that have been "collected" over the years to be put back into use and voila!! 10 years from now there are just as many '67 Fastbacks as they made back in 1967....now not everyone is completely educated and while the original "restorer" of said car may have disclosed it to the guy he sold it to....THAT guy may not and so on and so on.....eventually someone is going to be sold the car as an original and they may not have the knowledge to be able to tell any different and they are misled and Fraud occurs in one form or another.
Everyone who wants a Cobra can have one in a Kit car and this should be no differently treated.
4/17/07, 01:42 PM
#15
Service Manager
4/17/07, 01:53 PM
#16
Needs to be more Astony
Would it not be the original car though. I wouldn't car if the car was a brand new body/frame. If its titled as a 67 fastback. then i wouldn't care if i had a car that was as good as new. I would want them to tell me it was a new chassis atleast though.
Heck if i can build a 67 fastback kit car..I will be overjoyed.
Heck if i can build a 67 fastback kit car..I will be overjoyed.
4/17/07, 05:42 PM
#18
I don't think the Eleanor craze hurt the hobby - how could attention hurt the hobby? I bought a 68 Fastback in 2003 for $3000 and drove it home. Granted it needed work but I got what I paid for. There are still deals out there - you can get a nice FB for 15K - 20K. Not a bad deal if you ask me.
4/17/07, 06:29 PM
#19
Needs to be more Astony
I don't think the Eleanor craze hurt the hobby - how could attention hurt the hobby? I bought a 68 Fastback in 2003 for $3000 and drove it home. Granted it needed work but I got what I paid for. There are still deals out there - you can get a nice FB for 15K - 20K. Not a bad deal if you ask me.
4/17/07, 09:21 PM
#20
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I'm glad to see my post sparked some thought and conversation. I really wasn't looking to start a fight on the legality of VIN swapping. I posed it more from a philosophical stand. If I move my interior, glass, and drivetrane to this (VIN and Title in my name) do i still have a 67 Mustang. aside from being faster, is this any different then if I do a "frame off" restoration and replace every rusty peice I find. Last year I replaced the floors, framerails, torque boxes, firewall, seat risers and carpet in my 68. In the 25 yaers I have owned it I also replaced fenders, quarter panels, valances, and Painted it at least 5 times. At what point can I no longer call it a 68 Mustang. Sure a showroom condition never restored vehicle aught to be more valuable then a restored or a clone/kit but I'm not discussing money or even the fraud issue. We all know that a replacement part exist for every peice of these old mustangs. Is this really any different then replacing the whole car one peice at a time.