DanofTroy

My brother, his son and I are attempting to restore a 1965 Mustang coupe for my brother's son, who is 13 and this will be his car when he is 16. We want to do it right.
This is where we are at: We have done a complete deconstruction, and we are now planning for future phases.

We have removed a 302 engine with automatic transmission.
According to our VIN and Warranty Number:
The original Engine was a 200 1v I6
The original Axel was a 2.83:1, Conventional
The original Transmission was a C4 Transmission.

It was our hope to have the engine rebuilt, the transmission rebuilt, dress it up with engine paint and chrome and be done with it.

However, today someone with far more experience and knowledge that we trust greatly recommended that this engine would not be best with today's type of motor oil and fuel efficiency, and would not last very long even if rebuilt, and that we did not have the correct rear end in now for the 302.

His recommendation was to get a 1988 or newer 302 V8 maybe from a Crown Vic or Grand Marquis that would include an overdrive transmission.

All this being said, what are your thoughts and advice to help us learn as much as we can about this important step.

We also will consult another gentleman or two that we also have great trust in, one which will likely be our main engine mechanic on this project.

Estimates for the following, although wide-ranging I am sure, would be appreciated.

Cost estimate of used V8 302 Crown Victoria or Grand Marquis engine:
Cost estimate of used overdrive transmission to match V8 302:
Cost estimate of used V8 rear end to match engine and transmission:

Then once the above are purchased, I know all three will require rebuilding to some extent, unless we can buy each one already rebuilt.

Thank you very much for your time and input to these questions.

houtex

Not being there, I am sure I don't have context, but that guy's comments are a little... odd. Yeah.

The oil comment is weird, because oil hasn't changed it basic form in years. If at all. It's the additives that make it better, or so they say. The oil today is most likely better than any in 1965, or whenever that motor is from. This is the same oil used in race cars, believe it or not, and if it can handle 10000 rpm motors, it can handle a paltry 5000 for a 302. That won't be any issue. Especially if you get synthetic.

The fuel efficiency is more tied to the freshness of the motor, coupled with correct carbueration (or lack thereof), tuning, and how many RPM the motor is turning. That last is linked directly to the speed of the car and it's transmission, rear axle, wheel size, and car's weight. A 3 speed transmission with a 3.73 rear axle is going to get suck mileage compared to an AOD with 2.83 rear axle, at cruise. So his point is correct, but only in the transmission. Keeping the 3 speed, you will have a motor running more RPMs at cruise, so it will generate more heat, and more friction, and therfore, he's got a point.

But even if you did that, the motor will still run 70,000 miles. It's a freakin' 302, they're tough.

---

The problem is, I don't know if you're gonna go computer or carb. If computer, grab a wrecked/used 5.0 Mustang with an AOD in it, and it will be a complete car. It's still not 'that easy', but with an entire drivetrain RIGHT THERE to pick from, the swap won't be terrible. Plenty of online info about that kind of swap. Rebuild that motor, trans, and sell the others.

If a carb, well, I say rebuild the 302 with roller rockers, get a proper axle, and get an AOD for it directly, sell the C4. An AOD is nothing but a C4 with an overdrive in it, it will literally bolt right in, if I remember correctly. Oh, and a driveshaft, you'll likely need a custom one. Quick and easy.

The thing that really bothers me, though, is the I6 with a V8 in it. Did they put in the 5 bolt suspension in it, or is it still rollin' on the 4 lug wheels?

/sorry, dunno costs, just sayin' what I'd do.
//Restomodded Muskrat, my '66 that I don't have, and kept it I6. But I did the research back then to swap the 5.0, and... well... decided I didn't need it.

texastboneking

I agree the oil comment is odd. My 67 Chevy c10 pickup with the original never rebuilt motor runs great on todays modern oil. 45 years old and still don't burn oil

Falchion

Maybe he was refering to the Zinc that needs to be in the motor oil? I don't think the new oils have that?

texastboneking

The zinc won't do nothing for it. The oil is there to keep the bearings from contacting the crank, rods, ect.

Falchion

Zinc is required if you are going to use an old engine. it will wear out quicly otherwise. That's probably what the guy was talking about.

But, you only need to use Rotella T motor oil or a zinc addiative. Not really that big of a deal.....

texastboneking

Why would it wear out quicker? Not being sarcastic. I just don't know?

DanofTroy

Gentlemen thank you very much for your input. That is exactly what he said, that the older engine required Zinc and it was very expensive to buy oil today with Zinc. I certainly don't know but I respect this man's advice and opinion but am interested also in our options, as we do not have the money to spring for a new zero -miles crate engine. Thanks again to all.

houtex

Ah. Zinc, eh? Hm... well, I can believe that a little... *digs in the intarewebs...*

Here we go:
http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/

And Valvoline itself is iffy on whether that's an issue or not even in the older motors, and in 'normal' motors in general, but it does supply a specialized Zinc oil for racing which does help in those hard run motors.

In case that helps anyone. Like me, who did not know that.

Falchion

You're welcome!

I think I've read your blog about your project. It sounds great, and some of what that guy did tell you is true, but you can put in a AOD Trans etc. to get extra gas mileage. Then his Mustang would be more of a Restromod Mustang, which could be the way to go, but in the end it's a judgement call and it's your project.

x21

It may be a stretch, but perhaps, instead of oil, maybe referring to lead additives for the softer valve seats?

Falchion

Most valve seats are replaced with harder ones when the engine is overhauled. That way you can run on modern unleaded gas.