PCM crapped out - Dealer is NOT making me happy
12/9/09, 11:00 AM
#1
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PCM crapped out - Dealer is NOT making me happy
Long Read....
I'm so pissed....
Yesterday morning I'm home sick, and hop in the stang to go pick up a prescription. The "wrench" check engine light comes on, so I plug my tuner in to check it out. It's throwing two codes:
P2104 - Throttle Actuator Control - System forced idle
P2112 - Throttle Actuator Control - System forced closed
The car also entered a "fail safe" mode that won't let it rev above 1,000RPMs. So I bring it to the dealer (on a flat bed since they told me not to drive it that far in Fail Safe).
Get the call today that there's no output on several pins on the PCM that control the Throttle Body and the IACV (idle air control valve). What's killing me is that that it's $1,095 to replace the PCM and the car is only 7,000miles out of warranty! Just to add fuel to my fire they call back and say that its 3-5 business days till the new PCM comes in. So they can't even start work till Friday AT BEST.
I've never had a problem with this dealer before, and they've always gone above and beyond with me. However this time they won't help me on ANYTHING. I asked for a loaner/rental from them since they can't even get the part for 5 days. They've done this for me before in the past in these situations, but this time... They said NO! I was told that if I was under warranty they could help me out with a rental, but not anymore! That's such BS! That just means they expense that to Corporate Ford as part of the warranty work but promote it to you as a great service their dealership provides.
I'm seriously considering writing a letter to Ford over this. My family has owned over 30 Fords dating back to the early 60s, and have been blue blooded our whole lives. This is NOT how I would treat customers of mine that have been with me for almost 50 years.
What a day!
I'm so pissed....
Yesterday morning I'm home sick, and hop in the stang to go pick up a prescription. The "wrench" check engine light comes on, so I plug my tuner in to check it out. It's throwing two codes:
P2104 - Throttle Actuator Control - System forced idle
P2112 - Throttle Actuator Control - System forced closed
The car also entered a "fail safe" mode that won't let it rev above 1,000RPMs. So I bring it to the dealer (on a flat bed since they told me not to drive it that far in Fail Safe).
Get the call today that there's no output on several pins on the PCM that control the Throttle Body and the IACV (idle air control valve). What's killing me is that that it's $1,095 to replace the PCM and the car is only 7,000miles out of warranty! Just to add fuel to my fire they call back and say that its 3-5 business days till the new PCM comes in. So they can't even start work till Friday AT BEST.
I've never had a problem with this dealer before, and they've always gone above and beyond with me. However this time they won't help me on ANYTHING. I asked for a loaner/rental from them since they can't even get the part for 5 days. They've done this for me before in the past in these situations, but this time... They said NO! I was told that if I was under warranty they could help me out with a rental, but not anymore! That's such BS! That just means they expense that to Corporate Ford as part of the warranty work but promote it to you as a great service their dealership provides.
I'm seriously considering writing a letter to Ford over this. My family has owned over 30 Fords dating back to the early 60s, and have been blue blooded our whole lives. This is NOT how I would treat customers of mine that have been with me for almost 50 years.
What a day!
12/9/09, 02:07 PM
#3
Legacy TMS Member
I empathize with your feelings, Tommy. But the hammer has to drop sometime. A point must be selected where certain perks are no longer offered. When they're out of warranty, they're out of warranty!
I hope you don't let one bad experience erase decades of good ones.
I hope you don't let one bad experience erase decades of good ones.
12/9/09, 02:24 PM
#4
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Tommy, you knew 7,000 miles ago that your warranty was expiring. Did you opt to buy an extended warranty at that time or trade the car in for a new car with warranty? Nope, sounds like you decided to roll the dice and take a chance that you'd be stuck with repairs bill from that date forward.
I'm sorry to hear about your PCM problems, but your dealer has done you no wrong:
1) The part costs what it costs - regardless of how many miles are on a car or whether there is warranty available or not.
2) Parts availability is not within the dealer's control. Some parts rarely fail and aren't stocked widely. I'm sure they want to fix your car ASAP and they don't get paid until it's repaired, so they have every incentive to get your parts now instead of later. Cut them some slack.
3) Ford does not pay for a loaner vehicle unless you have purchased a genuine Ford Extended Service Plan (ESP), so it is not reasonable to expect a loaner car when your car is in for repairs. Each dealership decides whether to eat the cost of a loaner car on a case-by-case basis when a customer does not have an ESP which would have otherwise reimbursed the dealer for that loaner.
Again, sorry to hear about the PCM problem. It's easy to get worked up emotionally when our beloved Mustangs (or cars, in general) break down. Just please try to look at it objectively and don't make the dealer out to be a bad guy when they, in fact, have done nothing wrong from the sound of it.
I'm sorry to hear about your PCM problems, but your dealer has done you no wrong:
1) The part costs what it costs - regardless of how many miles are on a car or whether there is warranty available or not.
2) Parts availability is not within the dealer's control. Some parts rarely fail and aren't stocked widely. I'm sure they want to fix your car ASAP and they don't get paid until it's repaired, so they have every incentive to get your parts now instead of later. Cut them some slack.
3) Ford does not pay for a loaner vehicle unless you have purchased a genuine Ford Extended Service Plan (ESP), so it is not reasonable to expect a loaner car when your car is in for repairs. Each dealership decides whether to eat the cost of a loaner car on a case-by-case basis when a customer does not have an ESP which would have otherwise reimbursed the dealer for that loaner.
Again, sorry to hear about the PCM problem. It's easy to get worked up emotionally when our beloved Mustangs (or cars, in general) break down. Just please try to look at it objectively and don't make the dealer out to be a bad guy when they, in fact, have done nothing wrong from the sound of it.
12/9/09, 02:31 PM
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I'm more frustrated with the way the dealer acted than what went wrong with the car. I understand poop happens
I may still write to Ford and tell them about my loyalty and stocks that I own and hope they compensate me for part of the repairs. This worked for my dad once on the tranny issue.
12/9/09, 02:35 PM
#6
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I'd look to see if possible to get a used PCM. I'd imagine it'd be much cheaper. People forget about used parts quite a lot. I can understand some hesitation about used parts, but electronics wouldn't bother me at all. Maybe that's a cheaper route worth checking into if it can be programmed appropriately.
12/9/09, 02:42 PM
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I'd look to see if possible to get a used PCM. I'd imagine it'd be much cheaper. People forget about used parts quite a lot. I can understand some hesitation about used parts, but electronics wouldn't bother me at all. Maybe that's a cheaper route worth checking into if it can be programmed appropriately.
12/9/09, 02:47 PM
#8
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Yeah, I dunno but with the potential savings I'd want to find out for sure. Salvage yards sell body, suspension, and driveline parts all day long since they get damaged in wrecks, but the electrical parts don't roll out the door as fast so you might find a decent price. Good luck.
12/9/09, 04:15 PM
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Tommy, you knew 7,000 miles ago that your warranty was expiring. Did you opt to buy an extended warranty at that time or trade the car in for a new car with warranty? Nope, sounds like you decided to roll the dice and take a chance that you'd be stuck with repairs bill from that date forward.
I'm sorry to hear about your PCM problems, but your dealer has done you no wrong:
1) The part costs what it costs - regardless of how many miles are on a car or whether there is warranty available or not.
2) Parts availability is not within the dealer's control. Some parts rarely fail and aren't stocked widely. I'm sure they want to fix your car ASAP and they don't get paid until it's repaired, so they have every incentive to get your parts now instead of later. Cut them some slack.
3) Ford does not pay for a loaner vehicle unless you have purchased a genuine Ford Extended Service Plan (ESP), so it is not reasonable to expect a loaner car when your car is in for repairs. Each dealership decides whether to eat the cost of a loaner car on a case-by-case basis when a customer does not have an ESP which would have otherwise reimbursed the dealer for that loaner.
Again, sorry to hear about the PCM problem. It's easy to get worked up emotionally when our beloved Mustangs (or cars, in general) break down. Just please try to look at it objectively and don't make the dealer out to be a bad guy when they, in fact, have done nothing wrong from the sound of it.
I'm sorry to hear about your PCM problems, but your dealer has done you no wrong:
1) The part costs what it costs - regardless of how many miles are on a car or whether there is warranty available or not.
2) Parts availability is not within the dealer's control. Some parts rarely fail and aren't stocked widely. I'm sure they want to fix your car ASAP and they don't get paid until it's repaired, so they have every incentive to get your parts now instead of later. Cut them some slack.
3) Ford does not pay for a loaner vehicle unless you have purchased a genuine Ford Extended Service Plan (ESP), so it is not reasonable to expect a loaner car when your car is in for repairs. Each dealership decides whether to eat the cost of a loaner car on a case-by-case basis when a customer does not have an ESP which would have otherwise reimbursed the dealer for that loaner.
Again, sorry to hear about the PCM problem. It's easy to get worked up emotionally when our beloved Mustangs (or cars, in general) break down. Just please try to look at it objectively and don't make the dealer out to be a bad guy when they, in fact, have done nothing wrong from the sound of it.
1. I'm not mad about the price (although it sucks to have that bill at the holidays). It is what is is.
2. Parts are out of the dealers control - agreed! Not mad about the delay at all! Again - I'm not mad at the dealer for this. it is what it is.
3. I think I forgot to mention that I DID purchase the ESP, but according to the dealer it does not cover anything electrical. So because the electrical is not covered they won't give me a loaner. However, last time (previous service manager who retired) gave me a loaner car when it took more than 2 days to get parts. He said that had nothing to do with warranty, and was a service of the dealership. They're now saying that they only did that b/c I had a warranty. Something's not getting communicated properly here. That's what's pissing me off. I have the ESP that should help me out in that area, and they're really playing hardball on this. I try not to be an "annoying" customer about this stuff, but this one is really getting to me.
Last edited by Tsbird1994; 12/9/09 at 04:17 PM.
12/9/09, 04:34 PM
#10
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I hear ya Tommy. A lot of dealerships used to offer loaner cars just as long as the car was purchased from and being serviced at the dealer. I don't see that much anymore. I could be wrong, but I don't think there's anything in the warranty anyways about getting a rental car... is there? My understanding is that it's usually just done for customer service reasons. Correct?
12/9/09, 04:34 PM
#11
Sorry to hear about all the problems Tommy. Hope you get the Stang back on the road without a big hit to the wallet.
7k miles out or modded, it's the risk we take. I've been technically out of warranty since my first how-to. 
Just last winter when my car was technically still under factory warranty, I tried to get my A/C fixed. Service manager looked at my car and denied it. I still have no A/C to this day, but that's how I roll.
Just last winter when my car was technically still under factory warranty, I tried to get my A/C fixed. Service manager looked at my car and denied it. I still have no A/C to this day, but that's how I roll.
12/9/09, 04:43 PM
#12
legacy Tms Member
I agree with John, look for a used one...might suggest calling your tuner with your info, see what parts will accept the tune- I read 'strategy code' or something varies, could affect things...
my bigger worry would be that they guarantee this is THE problem...if water in the SJB in the passenger footwell, or a loose firewall plug, or whatever is 'found' later, I'd scream- but hear of that kind of stuff happening with dealer repairs...knew a guy back in the 80's that said if they swapped a part that prooved not to be the cause, it was shorted to a battery till it arced out so it could be returned to ford- asked him about stiffing customers, nah, it was all warranty stuff...guess if they return good parts to ford (guess they do test them) the dealer gets billed for them.
odd thing is, 99.9% of the time I got to swap/fix a servo drive in a machine or robot, there was something that caused it, if ya know what I mean...rarely things fail for no apparent reason, but even then they often will again in a short time...much rarer yet is a part that fails for no reason, and never fails again.
when our windstar was 6 months old it died in a parking lot one saturday- couldnt hear the fuelpump, reset wasnt tripped, dealer came and towed it in...monday like 830 in the morning they called the wife- come pick it up...she called me, I said wait, and called service(no way they replaced pump in half hour), he says it was a bad fuse...I said no, let it idle for 1/2 hour and call me back- 10 minutes later he calls back, 'blew 3 more- must need a fuel pump' I was like 'DUH, UM, OKAY...' ended up taking a week, tank was full and 'got damaged removing it' (I read that as 'we droopped the heavy friggin thing') took a week to get it back...to top it off about 6 months later I went to put washer fluid in for the wife(first time I even looked under the hood- dealer serviced her car) and theres no cover on the fusebox, dead bugs/salt/etc, I was pissed- called dealer ' I can assure you we didnt forget it', UM, NO, they were the only ones that ever worked under the hood, AND they were replacing fuses...just because the sign out front says Ford, dont always mean they have a clue.
hope the problem was correctly diagnosed, and they get you going soon- but still, I'd bet a boneyard might have one for 75~125 bucks if you can get it properly reflashed...
theres some used on ebay, heres a new/refurb one for 225- see if it matches your p/n:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...Q5fAccessories
goood luck
Tim
my bigger worry would be that they guarantee this is THE problem...if water in the SJB in the passenger footwell, or a loose firewall plug, or whatever is 'found' later, I'd scream- but hear of that kind of stuff happening with dealer repairs...knew a guy back in the 80's that said if they swapped a part that prooved not to be the cause, it was shorted to a battery till it arced out so it could be returned to ford- asked him about stiffing customers, nah, it was all warranty stuff...guess if they return good parts to ford (guess they do test them) the dealer gets billed for them.
odd thing is, 99.9% of the time I got to swap/fix a servo drive in a machine or robot, there was something that caused it, if ya know what I mean...rarely things fail for no apparent reason, but even then they often will again in a short time...much rarer yet is a part that fails for no reason, and never fails again.
when our windstar was 6 months old it died in a parking lot one saturday- couldnt hear the fuelpump, reset wasnt tripped, dealer came and towed it in...monday like 830 in the morning they called the wife- come pick it up...she called me, I said wait, and called service(no way they replaced pump in half hour), he says it was a bad fuse...I said no, let it idle for 1/2 hour and call me back- 10 minutes later he calls back, 'blew 3 more- must need a fuel pump' I was like 'DUH, UM, OKAY...' ended up taking a week, tank was full and 'got damaged removing it' (I read that as 'we droopped the heavy friggin thing') took a week to get it back...to top it off about 6 months later I went to put washer fluid in for the wife(first time I even looked under the hood- dealer serviced her car) and theres no cover on the fusebox, dead bugs/salt/etc, I was pissed- called dealer ' I can assure you we didnt forget it', UM, NO, they were the only ones that ever worked under the hood, AND they were replacing fuses...just because the sign out front says Ford, dont always mean they have a clue.
hope the problem was correctly diagnosed, and they get you going soon- but still, I'd bet a boneyard might have one for 75~125 bucks if you can get it properly reflashed...
theres some used on ebay, heres a new/refurb one for 225- see if it matches your p/n:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...Q5fAccessories
goood luck
Tim
12/9/09, 05:32 PM
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I agree with John, look for a used one...might suggest calling your tuner with your info, see what parts will accept the tune- I read 'strategy code' or something varies, could affect things...
my bigger worry would be that they guarantee this is THE problem...if water in the SJB in the passenger footwell, or a loose firewall plug, or whatever is 'found' later, I'd scream- but hear of that kind of stuff happening with dealer repairs...knew a guy back in the 80's that said if they swapped a part that prooved not to be the cause, it was shorted to a battery till it arced out so it could be returned to ford- asked him about stiffing customers, nah, it was all warranty stuff...guess if they return good parts to ford (guess they do test them) the dealer gets billed for them.
odd thing is, 99.9% of the time I got to swap/fix a servo drive in a machine or robot, there was something that caused it, if ya know what I mean...rarely things fail for no apparent reason, but even then they often will again in a short time...much rarer yet is a part that fails for no reason, and never fails again.
when our windstar was 6 months old it died in a parking lot one saturday- couldnt hear the fuelpump, reset wasnt tripped, dealer came and towed it in...monday like 830 in the morning they called the wife- come pick it up...she called me, I said wait, and called service(no way they replaced pump in half hour), he says it was a bad fuse...I said no, let it idle for 1/2 hour and call me back- 10 minutes later he calls back, 'blew 3 more- must need a fuel pump' I was like 'DUH, UM, OKAY...' ended up taking a week, tank was full and 'got damaged removing it' (I read that as 'we droopped the heavy friggin thing') took a week to get it back...to top it off about 6 months later I went to put washer fluid in for the wife(first time I even looked under the hood- dealer serviced her car) and theres no cover on the fusebox, dead bugs/salt/etc, I was pissed- called dealer ' I can assure you we didnt forget it', UM, NO, they were the only ones that ever worked under the hood, AND they were replacing fuses...just because the sign out front says Ford, dont always mean they have a clue.
hope the problem was correctly diagnosed, and they get you going soon- but still, I'd bet a boneyard might have one for 75~125 bucks if you can get it properly reflashed...
theres some used on ebay, heres a new/refurb one for 225- see if it matches your p/n:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...Q5fAccessories
goood luck
Tim
my bigger worry would be that they guarantee this is THE problem...if water in the SJB in the passenger footwell, or a loose firewall plug, or whatever is 'found' later, I'd scream- but hear of that kind of stuff happening with dealer repairs...knew a guy back in the 80's that said if they swapped a part that prooved not to be the cause, it was shorted to a battery till it arced out so it could be returned to ford- asked him about stiffing customers, nah, it was all warranty stuff...guess if they return good parts to ford (guess they do test them) the dealer gets billed for them.
odd thing is, 99.9% of the time I got to swap/fix a servo drive in a machine or robot, there was something that caused it, if ya know what I mean...rarely things fail for no apparent reason, but even then they often will again in a short time...much rarer yet is a part that fails for no reason, and never fails again.
when our windstar was 6 months old it died in a parking lot one saturday- couldnt hear the fuelpump, reset wasnt tripped, dealer came and towed it in...monday like 830 in the morning they called the wife- come pick it up...she called me, I said wait, and called service(no way they replaced pump in half hour), he says it was a bad fuse...I said no, let it idle for 1/2 hour and call me back- 10 minutes later he calls back, 'blew 3 more- must need a fuel pump' I was like 'DUH, UM, OKAY...' ended up taking a week, tank was full and 'got damaged removing it' (I read that as 'we droopped the heavy friggin thing') took a week to get it back...to top it off about 6 months later I went to put washer fluid in for the wife(first time I even looked under the hood- dealer serviced her car) and theres no cover on the fusebox, dead bugs/salt/etc, I was pissed- called dealer ' I can assure you we didnt forget it', UM, NO, they were the only ones that ever worked under the hood, AND they were replacing fuses...just because the sign out front says Ford, dont always mean they have a clue.
hope the problem was correctly diagnosed, and they get you going soon- but still, I'd bet a boneyard might have one for 75~125 bucks if you can get it properly reflashed...
theres some used on ebay, heres a new/refurb one for 225- see if it matches your p/n:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...Q5fAccessories
goood luck
Tim
uggghhhhh we'll see what happens this week.
12/9/09, 07:12 PM
#14
The power train control module is just that. Not electrical. How many miles on the car because the federal emission control act warranty is longer than factory warranty. The PCM is an emissions control device not electrical.
12/9/09, 08:13 PM
#15
legacy Tms Member
good luck!
12/9/09, 08:25 PM
#16
legacy Tms Member
Shoot! ... I was under the impression you can't just swap these out. I'm going to check the p/n on the new one when I get it. If they match, I'll remember if it ever happens again. I agree with you - I was a marine mechanic for 8 years and rarely does a computer part like that just 'die' - something usually killed it or shorted it out.
uggghhhhh we'll see what happens this week.
uggghhhhh we'll see what happens this week.
just got to thinking too- you need to restore your old tune before unhooking the old pcm or the tuner wont acknowledge the new processor serial number - correct?
Last edited by ford4v429; 12/9/09 at 08:31 PM.
12/10/09, 11:23 AM
#17
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Yeah I understand all of that completely.
1. I'm not mad about the price (although it sucks to have that bill at the holidays). It is what is is.
2. Parts are out of the dealers control - agreed! Not mad about the delay at all! Again - I'm not mad at the dealer for this. it is what it is.
3. I think I forgot to mention that I DID purchase the ESP, but according to the dealer it does not cover anything electrical. So because the electrical is not covered they won't give me a loaner. However, last time (previous service manager who retired) gave me a loaner car when it took more than 2 days to get parts. He said that had nothing to do with warranty, and was a service of the dealership. They're now saying that they only did that b/c I had a warranty. Something's not getting communicated properly here. That's what's pissing me off. I have the ESP that should help me out in that area, and they're really playing hardball on this. I try not to be an "annoying" customer about this stuff, but this one is really getting to me.
1. I'm not mad about the price (although it sucks to have that bill at the holidays). It is what is is.
2. Parts are out of the dealers control - agreed! Not mad about the delay at all! Again - I'm not mad at the dealer for this. it is what it is.
3. I think I forgot to mention that I DID purchase the ESP, but according to the dealer it does not cover anything electrical. So because the electrical is not covered they won't give me a loaner. However, last time (previous service manager who retired) gave me a loaner car when it took more than 2 days to get parts. He said that had nothing to do with warranty, and was a service of the dealership. They're now saying that they only did that b/c I had a warranty. Something's not getting communicated properly here. That's what's pissing me off. I have the ESP that should help me out in that area, and they're really playing hardball on this. I try not to be an "annoying" customer about this stuff, but this one is really getting to me.
12/10/09, 02:24 PM
#19
7k miles out or modded, it's the risk we take. I've been technically out of warranty since my first how-to.
Just last winter when my car was technically still under factory warranty, I tried to get my A/C fixed. Service manager looked at my car and denied it. I still have no A/C to this day, but that's how I roll.
Just last winter when my car was technically still under factory warranty, I tried to get my A/C fixed. Service manager looked at my car and denied it. I still have no A/C to this day, but that's how I roll.
