ZL1 2:52.4 lap on the Grand Course VIR
2/28/12, 01:34 PM
#21
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These posts are reminiscent of the Porsche/GT-r Nurburgring debate a few years ago when the GT-r destroyed Porsche lap times. It can't be true it must be cheater car tires weren't production and so on and so on. Folks Lap times can vary a second or 2 easily on different days based on weather and track conditions so a difference of a few seconds doesn't make it a cheater car. 
ps: tires make a huge difference
especially on the Grand Course as it is much more twisty than the full course. 
Peter
ps: tires make a huge difference
especially on the Grand Course as it is much more twisty than the full course. Peter
2/28/12, 02:42 PM
#22
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if this really is the truth, then I have a car to look forward to in a year or two. But as has been stated I really doubt that chevy is capable of succumbing the laws of physics by getting within a second of their venerable zr1 which weighs 700lbs less with more tire, power and better weight distribution.
However, I am rooting for chevy on this one b/c I despise the GTR that much
However, I am rooting for chevy on this one b/c I despise the GTR that much
2/28/12, 03:25 PM
#23
Originally Posted by OLOABoss
Spoken like a true Ford Fanboy.
. Seriously good driving, a little sketchy @ South Bend. The Grand course is definently more of a handling course than the full course and as such doesn't reward hp as much.Peter
2/28/12, 04:51 PM
#24
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2/28/12, 05:33 PM
#26
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Tests like these are interesting, and the times recorded show a quick car. But a time on a car, clocked by the manufacturer, GM, Ford, Porsche, etc. should be greeted with a dose of skepticism.
The 'ring time for the ZL1 was impressive. But I doubt the car tested was showroom stock. Which all things considered is a good thing. Anybody traveling that fast without a five-point harness, and roll cage has a screw loose. (Something tells me the ZL1 will not be sitting on the showroom floor with a full roll-cage.) The times whispered about the GT00 turning an even faster lap on the ring, should also be treated with a grain of salt. It was a prototype, not a production car, and no doubt it was equipped with the precautionary safety equipment, and no one knows what the boost level was set at. Things like this are PR events.
The times from VIR indicate that the ZL1 is a fast car (which was already a given) However, the time shown would seem to indicate that it is faster than Godzilla. Do you believe that to be true?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ack.com_page_5
Run on the same track, on the same day, by a trade rag, head-to-head, Godzilla had the ZL1 for lunch. Fair comparison? No, not really. The ZL1 is what it is--good performance at a good value. Let me re-phrase that. A great car for the money. But, it is not a super car. The GT-R is over $40k more expensive. It should come as no surprise that the ZL1 was looking at Nissan tail lights, both in the quarter and on the track.
The 'ring time for the ZL1 was impressive. But I doubt the car tested was showroom stock. Which all things considered is a good thing. Anybody traveling that fast without a five-point harness, and roll cage has a screw loose. (Something tells me the ZL1 will not be sitting on the showroom floor with a full roll-cage.) The times whispered about the GT00 turning an even faster lap on the ring, should also be treated with a grain of salt. It was a prototype, not a production car, and no doubt it was equipped with the precautionary safety equipment, and no one knows what the boost level was set at. Things like this are PR events.
The times from VIR indicate that the ZL1 is a fast car (which was already a given) However, the time shown would seem to indicate that it is faster than Godzilla. Do you believe that to be true?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ack.com_page_5
Run on the same track, on the same day, by a trade rag, head-to-head, Godzilla had the ZL1 for lunch. Fair comparison? No, not really. The ZL1 is what it is--good performance at a good value. Let me re-phrase that. A great car for the money. But, it is not a super car. The GT-R is over $40k more expensive. It should come as no surprise that the ZL1 was looking at Nissan tail lights, both in the quarter and on the track.
2/28/12, 07:01 PM
#27
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Theres no denying the ZL1 is a great car, quite a bit more then the Boss and a better match up for the upcoming Shelby, but I am truely jealous of the suspension technology they added to the ZL1.
Props to GM for a awesome car.
Props to GM for a awesome car.
2/28/12, 07:02 PM
#28
Originally Posted by UnrealFord
Theres no denying the ZL1 is a great car, quite a bit more then the Boss and a better match up for the upcoming Shelby, but I am truely jealous of the suspension technology they added to the ZL1.
Props to Government Motors for a awesome car.
Props to Government Motors for a awesome car.
2/28/12, 07:27 PM
#29
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Tests like these are interesting, and the times recorded show a quick car. But a time on a car, clocked by the manufacturer, GM, Ford, Porsche, etc. should be greeted with a dose of skepticism.
The 'ring time for the ZL1 was impressive. But I doubt the car tested was showroom stock. Which all things considered is a good thing. Anybody traveling that fast without a five-point harness, and roll cage has a screw loose. (Something tells me the ZL1 will not be sitting on the showroom floor with a full roll-cage.) The times whispered about the GT00 turning an even faster lap on the ring, should also be treated with a grain of salt. It was a prototype, not a production car, and no doubt it was equipped with the precautionary safety equipment, and no one knows what the boost level was set at. Things like this are PR events.
The times from VIR indicate that the ZL1 is a fast car (which was already a given) However, the time shown would seem to indicate that it is faster than Godzilla. Do you believe that to be true?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ack.com_page_5
Run on the same track, on the same day, by a trade rag, head-to-head, Godzilla had the ZL1 for lunch. Fair comparison? No, not really. The ZL1 is what it is--good performance at a good value. Let me re-phrase that. A great car for the money. But, it is not a super car. The GT-R is over $40k more expensive. It should come as no surprise that the ZL1 was looking at Nissan tail lights, both in the quarter and on the track.
The 'ring time for the ZL1 was impressive. But I doubt the car tested was showroom stock. Which all things considered is a good thing. Anybody traveling that fast without a five-point harness, and roll cage has a screw loose. (Something tells me the ZL1 will not be sitting on the showroom floor with a full roll-cage.) The times whispered about the GT00 turning an even faster lap on the ring, should also be treated with a grain of salt. It was a prototype, not a production car, and no doubt it was equipped with the precautionary safety equipment, and no one knows what the boost level was set at. Things like this are PR events.
The times from VIR indicate that the ZL1 is a fast car (which was already a given) However, the time shown would seem to indicate that it is faster than Godzilla. Do you believe that to be true?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ack.com_page_5
Run on the same track, on the same day, by a trade rag, head-to-head, Godzilla had the ZL1 for lunch. Fair comparison? No, not really. The ZL1 is what it is--good performance at a good value. Let me re-phrase that. A great car for the money. But, it is not a super car. The GT-R is over $40k more expensive. It should come as no surprise that the ZL1 was looking at Nissan tail lights, both in the quarter and on the track.
And to believe the times of this Chevy PR video as being done on a stock ZL1 would require one to believe that the ZL1 can beat the GT-R around VIR yet lose to it badly around another track.
2/28/12, 08:46 PM
#30
Originally Posted by ShaneM
lol i thought the ZL1 had an iron clad, make you look like a track god traction and stability control system.
2/29/12, 07:38 PM
#32
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Interesting!
Something I noticed here:
On the front straight after crossing the starting line both the 2011 GT500 and the 2012 ZL1 hit 141+ mph before braking.
On the back straight the ZL1 hit 139+ but the GT500 hit only 137+ mph.
However, this driver seemed to bang the car off the rev limiter a bit too much, especially after rounding the tight corner before the back straight, I think had he not let it bounce off the rev limiter 2-3 times before upshifting he might of gotten the 139 mph there too.
In that regard, and with similar power to weights the 2011 GT500 and 2012 ZL1 seem to accelerate about the same.
Back to the rev limiter, I noticed the driver here hit the rev limiter quite a bit too.
One other thing I noticed too, either this 2011 GT500 wasn't fully stock either, or these drivers are MUCH better than the professional drivers Car and Driver hire for their Lightening Laps as these videos are quite a bit quicker.
It also may be simply that these are the manufacturers pro drivers and they have A LOT more seat time in these cars (and maybe even the VIR track) than the drivers for the Lightening Laps.
Something I noticed here:
On the front straight after crossing the starting line both the 2011 GT500 and the 2012 ZL1 hit 141+ mph before braking.
On the back straight the ZL1 hit 139+ but the GT500 hit only 137+ mph.
However, this driver seemed to bang the car off the rev limiter a bit too much, especially after rounding the tight corner before the back straight, I think had he not let it bounce off the rev limiter 2-3 times before upshifting he might of gotten the 139 mph there too.
In that regard, and with similar power to weights the 2011 GT500 and 2012 ZL1 seem to accelerate about the same.
Back to the rev limiter, I noticed the driver here hit the rev limiter quite a bit too.
One other thing I noticed too, either this 2011 GT500 wasn't fully stock either, or these drivers are MUCH better than the professional drivers Car and Driver hire for their Lightening Laps as these videos are quite a bit quicker.
It also may be simply that these are the manufacturers pro drivers and they have A LOT more seat time in these cars (and maybe even the VIR track) than the drivers for the Lightening Laps.
2/29/12, 08:44 PM
#33
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Interesting!
Something I noticed here:
On the front straight after crossing the starting line both the 2011 GT500 and the 2012 ZL1 hit 141+ mph before braking.
On the back straight the ZL1 hit 139+ but the GT500 hit only 137+ mph.
However, this driver seemed to bang the car off the rev limiter a bit too much, especially after rounding the tight corner before the back straight, I think had he not let it bounce off the rev limiter 2-3 times before upshifting he might of gotten the 139 mph there too.
In that regard, and with similar power to weights the 2011 GT500 and 2012 ZL1 seem to accelerate about the same.
Back to the rev limiter, I noticed the driver here hit the rev limiter quite a bit too.
One other thing I noticed too, either this 2011 GT500 wasn't fully stock either, or these drivers are MUCH better than the professional drivers Car and Driver hire for their Lightening Laps as these videos are quite a bit quicker.
It also may be simply that these are the manufacturers pro drivers and they have A LOT more seat time in these cars (and maybe even the VIR track) than the drivers for the Lightening Laps.
Something I noticed here:
On the front straight after crossing the starting line both the 2011 GT500 and the 2012 ZL1 hit 141+ mph before braking.
On the back straight the ZL1 hit 139+ but the GT500 hit only 137+ mph.
However, this driver seemed to bang the car off the rev limiter a bit too much, especially after rounding the tight corner before the back straight, I think had he not let it bounce off the rev limiter 2-3 times before upshifting he might of gotten the 139 mph there too.
In that regard, and with similar power to weights the 2011 GT500 and 2012 ZL1 seem to accelerate about the same.
Back to the rev limiter, I noticed the driver here hit the rev limiter quite a bit too.
One other thing I noticed too, either this 2011 GT500 wasn't fully stock either, or these drivers are MUCH better than the professional drivers Car and Driver hire for their Lightening Laps as these videos are quite a bit quicker.
It also may be simply that these are the manufacturers pro drivers and they have A LOT more seat time in these cars (and maybe even the VIR track) than the drivers for the Lightening Laps.
2/29/12, 10:31 PM
#34
Cobra R Member
Originally Posted by Driver72
Well I just spoke to the guys at Car and Driver, and yes the times on the Lightening Laps are from a running start like this video of the ZL1.
But again, I'd question this particular car that was provided by Chevy and this "advertisement" was sponsored by Chevy and set up by Chevy.
Here is the problem I have with believing this was a stock ZL1 as you'd buy off the dealer lot.
1. They don't disclose that it is and therefore it could be "tuned" up for this run and they wouldn't be lying or deceiving anybody.
Then there are the physical facts:
This ZL1 has the same engine as the CTS-V, same gear box and essentially same suspension (yes the ZL1 has the Gen 3 version and the CTS-V still uses the Gen 2, but let's be honest here, the Gen 3 is not leaps and bounds different or better, just a new phase, it's not like the difference in a stock suspension vs an adjustable Bilstein or anything).
But again, I'd question this particular car that was provided by Chevy and this "advertisement" was sponsored by Chevy and set up by Chevy.
Here is the problem I have with believing this was a stock ZL1 as you'd buy off the dealer lot.
1. They don't disclose that it is and therefore it could be "tuned" up for this run and they wouldn't be lying or deceiving anybody.
Then there are the physical facts:
This ZL1 has the same engine as the CTS-V, same gear box and essentially same suspension (yes the ZL1 has the Gen 3 version and the CTS-V still uses the Gen 2, but let's be honest here, the Gen 3 is not leaps and bounds different or better, just a new phase, it's not like the difference in a stock suspension vs an adjustable Bilstein or anything).
2/29/12, 11:38 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2
Ah but it is leaps and rebounds ahead. Aside from a faster reaction time the shocks are now controlled in both directions. That's a massive breakthrough no other suspension can offer. Expect to see Gen 3 on the new Ferrari announced today, as well as future Caddy's and Vette's. The question becomes, will GM allow Ford to use this technology as Audi and Ferrari currently do?
3/1/12, 12:47 PM
#36
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Ah but it is leaps and rebounds ahead. Aside from a faster reaction time the shocks are now controlled in both directions. That's a massive breakthrough no other suspension can offer. Expect to see Gen 3 on the new Ferrari announced today, as well as future Caddy's and Vette's. The question becomes, will GM allow Ford to use this technology as Audi and Ferrari currently do?
Again, Gen 3 is evolutionary, not REVOLUTIONARY (like comparing the original release of the MR shocks compared to the non-MR ones).
If I remember correctly, there are articles comparing the MR shocks that were put on the Corvette Z51 package to the non MR shocks and they were definitely a big change, and dropped a few seconds off lap times.
But again, the difference between the Gen 2 and the Gen 3 is not night and day, more like a no moon night compared to a full moon night.
3/1/12, 03:30 PM
#37
Cobra R Member
Originally Posted by Driver72
You put the Gen 2 MR shocks on that same ZL1 and I'll bet the track time is within 1 second of the Gen 3 version.
Again, Gen 3 is evolutionary, not REVOLUTIONARY (like comparing the original release of the MR shocks compared to the non-MR ones).
If I remember correctly, there are articles comparing the MR shocks that were put on the Corvette Z51 package to the non MR shocks and they were definitely a big change, and dropped a few seconds off lap times.
But again, the difference between the Gen 2 and the Gen 3 is not night and day, more like a no moon night compared to a full moon night.
3/1/12, 04:15 PM
#38
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And when all is said and done, if you have one of those "things" (cant even type that "C" word).....you wake up in the middle of the night and covered in a cold sweat, you jump out your bed, run as hard as you can to your garage door, **** near tear it off its hinges and reality sets in......"oh God".........."I've bought a Chevrolet". Then a tear runs down you face as realize just how screwed you are. OR as a Boss 302 owner......you simply roll over and drift off in a wonderful easy sleep..no sweating involved.."Thank God I own a Ford!"... 
3/1/12, 05:26 PM
#39
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But again, the Gen 3 is an evolutionary step over the Gen 2, not a whole breakthrough new suspension.
Kind of like going from the LS2 engine to the LS3
Better, but not night and day difference.
The Gen 2 MR suspension is very good in it's own right, there is no way the Gen 3 is leaps and bounds better. It's better for sure, but it's not like it's going to make the exact same car with Gen 2 suspension feel archaic and suddenly lap a road course 4-5 seconds faster, by putting the Gen 3 suspension in it.
3/3/12, 01:26 PM
#40
Cobra R Member
Drive it. Then tell me it isn't a massive advancement. Shocks have always controlled action in one direction, until now. Track curbing is almost as smooth to hit as staying on the tarmac.
That's good enough to give it a 12 second advantage over the Boss at VIR. It's not the horsepower giving the overweight best dancing slippers. That's beyond evolutionary. I don't care how adjustable competing shocks are, there is no comparison.
On another note saw this bumper sticker on a Camaro, "cats not kids". Kinda says it all. ;-)
That's good enough to give it a 12 second advantage over the Boss at VIR. It's not the horsepower giving the overweight best dancing slippers. That's beyond evolutionary. I don't care how adjustable competing shocks are, there is no comparison.
On another note saw this bumper sticker on a Camaro, "cats not kids". Kinda says it all. ;-)