blk96gt

I currently have a 2011 Camaro SS, and have been debating on trading it in for a Boss. I've recently started doing HPDE's and have had a blast, but I'm not too big on doing a bunch of mods to the Camaro to get it up to snuff. The Boss seems more of a turnkey solution. I'm not looking to do any hardcore racing, probably about 5-10 track days a year. I guess my question is if the Boss really is a turnkey solution for an HPDE car? I've read a few things that concern me about the reliability.

First, the cooling issues. Is the accepted solution to just remove the front grille? I live in Texas, so heat will definitely be an issue in the summer. I've seen people adding hoods and various other things, but having to mod the car defeats the purpose of buying it in my case. I understand no car is perfect, but if I have to spend $2k to get it ready to go to the track 7 times a year I may as well keep my car.

Second would be the transmission issues. Is the grinding really only a problem when the car is cold? If that's the case, my transmission does that now, and so did the one in my 96 Mustang. If a quick fix for that is a simple fluid change, then it seems to me that this issue is really exaggerated.

I guess those are my main concerns. Obviously going to a high quality DOT4 brake fluid is something that needs to be done, as well as changing out transmission and rear end oil. Is there anything else that I'm missing that really needs to be done to this car to make it a good weekend warrior/HPDE car?

Jza1736

Brake fluid, new pads, dial the dampers up and GO!

If you get a standard Boss I would recommend the brake cooling ducts and tranny cooling scoop.

Some people have had luck with the grill removal. I did the hood for cooling and looks

blk96gt

What is the cost of the cooling ducts and cooling scoop and where can they be purchased? I highly doubt I will be able to push the limits of the car anytime soon, as I've only done 3 track days.

Also, what brake pads have most of ya'll been using? I was looking at Hawk HP+ for my car, so I assume they would be an acceptable solution here as well.

blk96gt

I also forgot to ask about the car throwing codes and going into limp mode while on the track. Is there a solution for this, or is it really a problem? I thought I saw a solution for it last night but can't seem to find the thread. Is the fix getting the TracKey?

Jza1736

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...oling-Duct-Kit

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...ler-M-5025-MBR

I'm a rookie, only been on the track about 8 times. A few people have had good things to say about the HP + pads. I'm still on my stock pads, which are good but get some brake fade on track. I'll be trying the HP+ next. I've run 2 track days on my stock pads and 1 day at Miller for TA. Track Attack cars had upgraded pads and rotors. I could definitely feel a difference.

Jza1736

I've thrown a code, but no limp mode. I hear the fix is with a crank sensor position relearn. Someone else will have to confirm that. Im not sure about the TK fixing it either. I have a few other things on my wish/mod list that come b4 it

2012YellowBoss

it all depends where you are at and how fast you want to go. For the money the Boss CAN NOT be beat, I have spend a lot on mine but but much less then people (I pass) that started out with cars costing twice as much.

Brakes and tires will cost you on any car, so that is a wash. The Boss needs camber plates if you will be running that much. Trans cooler right off the bat and that is cheap. If you get a non-LS the rear wing is a good idea depending on the tracks you run. Other small things will need to be done like wheel studs for ten tracks days per year.

Cooling ducts are a good idea but I ran without them for several days so you do not need them day one.

The more you run the more you spend, still I doubt you will find a better set-up track car right out the box. The two problems you hit on are cooling and misfire driven limp modes. Jury is still out on the cooling but for some like myself a modified grille seems to be working. The limp mode should be taken care of with the Trackey. I need a few more days to be sure but if it comes back again I am sure Ford Racing will be all over it and find the problem.

blk96gt

Yeah I don't really include brakes and tires in the cost comparison, as those will be required on any car. I just have to convince the wife (and myself honestly) that the purchase is worth it, and would cost me less overall than to keep tracking my car. As I said earlier, I'm fine with just removing the grille if that will fix the problem. At some point an aftermarket grille may be in order, but spending a few minutes removing it to be sure there are no issues isn't a big deal to me.

So based on what y'all are saying, trans cooler would really be the only thing I need for the first few track days. Brake ducts, camber plates, wheel studs, brake pads and possibly rear wing and hood are some others that would be good to do throughout the year.

2012YellowBoss, when you refer to the trans cooler, are you talking about the scoop that JZA1736 posted?

2012YellowBoss

You can also modify the grille that comes with the car, more info here.
http://bossmustangsonline.com/boss-3...ed-the-grille/

Camber plates depend on the tires, if you run tires like the Nitto 555 you can get away without them. If you run the stock tires or something like Nitto NT05's or NT01's you will burn them up quickly and it will cost more in the long run.

Correct.

ApexCars

I haven't been on the track yet but my understanding is that the people that have been having real cooling issues are the more experienced drivers who are able to push their cars closer to the limit. Starting out tracking, I would say that the items in the ford supplement should be done and you should buy a good quality helmet and get on the track. The car is going to be able to outperform you stock and it will be a good while before you get to the point that the car is holding you back.

P0 Corsa

Agree with everything ApexCars states.

The car will exceed your driving skills for a while and you will have a great time with it in HPDE's. The OE brake pads are fine to start with and certainly moving up to the HP+ which others are running is a benefit if you start taxing the OE pad limits. The trans scoop is relatively inexpensive and easy to install. The front rotor brake ducts can come on later as you get more driving experience and again push deeper into braking.

I have experienced engine temperatures warmer than my comfort limit while tracking my Boss at Miller. Easy and quick solution was to just remove the grille and that solved the problem without question. Does not look the best with a gaping hole in the front, but airflow is what you need and this 5 minute fix delivers the air the radiator needs for high performance track use.

Buy one and enjoy it on the track as many of us do!

phiggs54

I see you are in Kingwood. Where have you been to the track? If you havent tried Grandsports in Hitchcock you should come out there. Pretty low key and inexpensive. Short, tight track so you dont have to worry to much about breaks or overheating. Most guys only hit 90 on the straights.

Redkey

blk96gt

I also live in Houston and you will need to do something to address the cooling on the car if you are planning on tracking in May thru October. I am heading to TWS this weekend for my second weekend on the track with the LS. All I have done is add stainless steel brake lines and Motul 660 brake fluid. Running at MSRH with air temps in the high 60's and low 70's in November the car was pushing 230. Cooler this weekend but speeds will be higher at TWS as well.

You didn't say if this was a daily driver or not. If just a track toy a Gen 2 or Gen 3 Viper would probably be a better out of the box track weapon.

As a daily driver I would recommend the Mustang as being more comfortable. I usually drive my Gen IV Viper at the track so I am a bit biased. Though when asked I would say the LS is 75% the weapon at 50% the price. I haven't run the LS in the hot months of the year due to the heat problems folks have had. In daily driving the overheating has not been a problem. I figure replace or drill the front grill and see what happens. Good luck on your decision.

Richard

PTRocks

NOTE

For the 2013 model the cooling issues have been addressed (too soon to know if they are resolved). According to Dave Pericak, the new grille and hood are good for 10 degrees cooler running, and the fog light covers can be easily removed for track use.

Ulrichw

As much as I feel my Boss 302 gives great value for the money, it sounds to me like you're looking at the car for the wrong reason.

IMO there's no way that the loss that you'd take on the SS plus the higher base price of the Boss 302 would offset the costs of modding your Camaro.

You're way better off economically just staying with what you've got - turning over cars within 1-2 years is a sure way to spend a lot of money on making banks and car dealers richer.

That said, if you really love the car, and are willing to pay the price, go for it.

The Boss 302 is definitely a good trackable street car. I've only done one trackday on the car so far, but did so with minimal mods and felt the car did quite well - Dot 4 brake fluid, HP+ pads, set the tire pressures and go!

I'm going to do brake ducts before my next event, and am looking into tires/wheels and possibly race-specific pads (though I may want to wear through the HP+ pads before upgrading).

Note that even the Boss 302 is a compromise for the track - it's definitely a great car to drive to the track and then drive on the track. If you get serious about this hobby, though, you'll see limitations in the stock setup. You should also think carefully about whether you're willing to risk a crash - as you get faster, you'll quickly get to the point where the risk goes up. There's a reason people advise you not to track a car that you can't afford to write off (and also a reason people will advise you not to drive your car to the track - you need a way to get home if you crash).

JPC

Sorry I need to jump in here.
While the Boss @ $44k++ is a good deal, it's not the deal of the century.
I'm sure there's plenty of 2002-04 LS6 Z06 which can be purchased for 1/2 the money of a Boss and be faster on most tracks...
true the driver skills will make a BIG difference, just don't expect a stock Boss without any upgrades and expect to pass most cars.

JPC

Get to MSR, Houston and see what guys are running..
Maybe you'll see a Boss in the sea of Vettes and Porsches...

Talk to local racers, who know local tracks, local shops and local weather conditions.....
You might hit a big hit on your Camaro SS now while the market waits for the ZL1...

blk96gt

I've been to Grandsport and TWS. GSS was a fun track.
The car won't be a daily driver, but the option needs to be there if the need arises. I would prefer to get either a C5 or C6 Z06, but my wife doesn't want me to get a car without a back seat.

I've gone back and forth about just modding my car, and I'll give you some of the numbers I've come up with. The 20" stock wheels are way to heavy, so my plan was to replace those with some 18 or 19" Forgestars. The wheels and tires would cost me somewhere around $2500 if I remember right. The car also has weak axles and driveshafts, and I would want to replace those pretty soon. Axles run around $900, drive shaft around $1400. The suspension mods I want to do will probably run around $2500. This comes out to around $7300 and doesn't include cost of installation or shipping or any of that jazz. I didn't pay near sticker price on my car either, and it's pretty much paid off.

I should also mention that I do not like doing many modifications, engine or otherwise. I also feel that the engine in the Boss is a much tougher engine and has less of a chance of something wrong.

Also, as I said earlier, I'm just looking to do 3-5 HPDE weekends a year, and have no big plans of actually doing any racing. If I was going to go that route, I would pick up and old Mustang and do the Camaro-Mustang Challenge. I'm just looking for a well built car that I can have some fun at the track with minimal worry about mechanical issues. There is always the risk of a crash, but that comes down to how hard you're willing to push the car and yourself.

Ulrichw

The same thing could be said for the stock Boss 302 wheels - if you're serious about the handling of the car you'll want to upgrade them. OTOH I wouldn't see this as a priority - as you're learning how to drive, the difference between a heavier wheel and a lighter wheel will be basically irrelevant.

This sounds like much more of a drag racing mod than a road track mod. HPDEs are actually quite gentle on these components. Without knowing anything specific about the Camaro SS I'd say skip this.

This is probably the real difference between the two cars. The Boss 302 is competent without suspension changes, while you probably want something a little better tuned in the SS.

Having said that, the $2500 investment will probably leave you with a better, more adjustable suspension than what's on the Boss stock.

Well, that's about perfect, which means if you wreck it, you won't have as much money in it.

Probably true, though it's an engine in the first year of its development, so may be still in its debugging stage.

IMO the Chevy should hold up fine to a small number of track events a year.

Sound thinking. But in my experience, most people end up pushing pretty hard once they're bitten by the bug. Also, most people don't realize how quickly things can go wrong - the line between being in control and being wildly out of control is very thin at speed. Most people get lucky as they learn these lessons - but a few unlucky souls end up with a wadded car.

My two cents' worth: Buy the car if you have a visceral need to own it - it's a great car, and you won't be disappointed. But from a financial perspective, I think it's a much better idea to stay with what you've already got. It would make the most sense to me to at least keep the Camaro until your driving outgrows it.

The component that needs the most work in just about any situation where someone has recently started track driving is the driver itself. There's no point in trying to optimize the car until your expertise is at the point where you can take advantage of it.

Jza1736

And then you can get a used Boss in 2 years for a lot less