steveespo

Just installed Russell speed bleeders on all 4 calipers and give a big thumbs up. Easy change as when you remove stock bleeders ther is only a weep of fluid. Did the swap and full flush with ATE Super blue in 20 minutes
By myself. Also did a trans lube change to red line mtl. Have my car prepped for another day at Lime Rock Monday, hope the Hurricane leaves the track alone.
Steve

bandit67

I started looking into those. I did find a few folks that eventually had issues with them that caused fluid to spray out all over the wheel well. Not much in the way of problems, but something I wondered about when I began my research.

Problems were on cars that see regular track duty, which was my concern since we see much higher wheel/tire/brake temps than the average street car. Plenty of folks that just installed them loved them, a few that had them for a while with no issues, some that found the available thread sealer is only good for 4-6 bleeds, and a few that swore they'd never put those things on another car after the spring failed, so I decided to keep bleeding the old fashioned way for now.

NCETRY

What part number for the speed bleeders? Looking to get a set for myself.

MrBonus

I prefer my Motiv power bleeder to speed bleeders. It's purely my own bias but I believe there is less chance for failure with the power bleeder and every part on it is easily replaced.

SD GT

I have the Speedbleeder brand installed.
http://www.speedbleeder.com/
Speedbleeder is a one-piece outer body so it seals off just like the stock valves so I don't see any problems with them leaking.
Looks like Russel are similar. But Earls are a 2 piece outer body.
I bought the stainless version - costs a little more, but no rust issues.
I've got 5 track days and no problems.
They also sell a bottle of sealant to redo that when it wears off.
Speedbleeder size for front and rear is the same, and I believe 10mm x 1.0 and short length. I called in the order, and the lady was very helpful.

steveespo

10mmx1.0 is the size I got as well, 6 are needed for the car, when ordering order 3 set as they come 2 per set. As long as they are closed and seated they are sealed like any other bleeder, if the check valve spring fails when open then they will push fluid out and let air back in when you release the pedal when bleeding. Hopefully I won't find out. No more risk than stock when driving.
Steve

YellowJacketBoss302

A question…… There is considerable discussion on this elsewhere on this board, but I never found a definitive answer.
When changing the brake/clutch fluid using any of the methods mentioned above (old fashioned, speed bleeders, motiv power bleeder), does this get rid of the old fluid in the CLUTCH system?
If so why?
If not… then how do you make sure the clutch system is also changed?
Thanks.
-- Jim

steveespo

Jim
I can't figure out the best way to flush the clutch without removing the line to the throwing bearing, which I am not going to do as my clutch works just fine thank you.
Anyway while flushing my brakes this morning I did have the left front speed bleeder cracked and pumped the clutch 15 times to see if the fluid would mix back into master cylinder and then I pushed it out with the brake pedal and retopped the MC. Experiment was inconclusive. All systems functioned great after the work was complete. Maybe someone else has a method to share.
Steve

YellowJacketBoss302

Thanks Steve. I don't know if this is a big deal or not. But, it just seems like mixing dot 3 and dot 4 would not be a good idea. And a few (not many) folks have mentioned having clutch problems on the track.

MoscowBoss

From the service manuals.
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=925&viewfil...20Bleeding.pdf

YellowJacketBoss302

Thanks Ed.
But this does not address how to flush out the dot 3 in the clutch system and replace with dot 4.
I do want to get one of the vacuum kits for bleeding the clutch, though. Any idea where to get one at a good price?
Thanks.

MoscowBoss

For what it is worth. As far as DOT 3 and 4 they can be mixed as far as I am aware. Since the clutch fluid will not see anywhere near the temps the brakes do I would assume it would be fine with DOT 3. The clutch system does not have a bleeder so hence the need for vacuum while the preferred method for bleeding the brakes is using pressure (manually applied or with a pump). Getting it all out of the clutch would take many flushes, first the brakes and reservoir then vacuum the clutch master and slave cylinders, then the brakes, then the clutch. Do this many times and maybe it would all be replaced but is it really needed? I think the procedure I noted earlier for a clutch system bleed was for when you need to replace the slave. I think most people are simply repalcing the brake system fluids and leaving it at that. As for where to buy such vacuum and bleeder systems I don't have any specific ones to recommend. It would be interesting to hear from others that have already replaced the fluid with DOT 4. BTY, you CANNOT mix either of these with DOT 5.

bandit67

You supposedly can mix DOT3 & DOT4.

But a Mustang mechanic buddy told me that the clutch slave cylinder packages, whether from Ford or aftermarket that he has installed, have a warning to not use DOT 4 fluid.

Rumor has it that DOT4 will cause premature failure of the clutch slave cylinder. He has not seen rampant evidence of this, but he has replaced 1 clutch slave cylinder where the owner was running DOT4. He said he can't find widespread evidence of the failures, but wanted me to know so that I could decide.

This all came up when I mentioned that I was going to change over to DOT4. I have decided for now that I will continue to use the Motorcraft DOT3 until it no longer cuts it on my track outings. Then I will try the Wilwood 570 DOT3. By then, hopefully, we have more evidence one way or the other.

I do know a lot of folks running DOT4 in their Mustangs have yet to have any clutch issues, but they've only been running that for 1 or 2 seasons so far.

5 DOT 0

The Boss supplement specifically states to install DOT 4 brake fluid for the track so I think we're fine.

bandit67

Really? Well that's great news for the Boss owners. Not good for us 4.6L owners, but it's good to know that once I do get my Boss, I can go with the DOT4 in that car.

YellowJacketBoss302

Thanks all. I guess the consensus is to change brake system to dot 4 for the track. Don't even try to flush dot 3 out of the clutch system. OK for the dot 3 and 4 to mix.
Don't go to dot 5.
Right?

bandit67

That's your call if you don't want to do the extra work involved.


Yes, that's right. Just keep in mind, if you don't do a complete flush, the remaining DOT3 will lower the boiling point of the DOT4. I've even heard some folks say you may as well consider the boiling point of the blended fluid to essentially be that of the lower DOT3. I think it's not quite that simple, but assume the number that you're going with for the DOT4 boiling point will end up being lower to some degree, based on the ratio of 4 to 3 in the system.

Put it this way, it won't hurt to bump your fluid up in protection by going with DOT4 without removing ALL DOT3. If it were me and I were going to spend the money on the better fluid, I'd do a complete flush and get all the DOT3 out of the system, then just do basic changes once it's switched over to DOT4.

5 DOT 0

While I agree it would be nice to get all of the DOT 3 out of the system there are several people tracking their Boss cars and driving them hard and nobody has had an issue boiling the brake fluid. Just flush it out the best you can and start worrying about something else.

bandit67

I probably should have added that I haven't yet boiled the Motorcraft DOT3 in my 2007 on the track. Never had any brake fade issues, either. But only running high performance street pads, not race pads.

06GT

Installed my speed bleeders and did super blue flush this weekend. If you don't have a power bleeder, speed bleeders are the way to go.

This is the 3rd (open tracked) car I've used the Russell ones on, never had an issue with any of them.