todd03blown

AMEN!!

Five Oh Brian

I bought my brand new 2003 Mach 1 at the end of that model year after all the gotta-have-it guys bought theirs. MSRP was nearly $30K and I paid just $23K, so not only did I avoid ADM's, but I also got healthy rebates and discounts!

Due to '11 GT500 production being capped to just 5500 units, we had our allocation squashed to just 2 cars for the entire model year. The first was special ordered for a guy who just had to have our first one and by the beginning of summer (convertible). We came through for him and sold it at MSRP (no ADM's). The second was ordered for dealer stock and will arrive next week (grabber blue coupe with SVT Perf Pkg). It is not pre-sold and will be available for MSRP (again, no ADM's).

Odds are, there will not be a 2012 GT500. The latest contract between Ford & Shelby that was communicated to dealers only specified up to the 2011 model. If you go to Shelby's official online forums (www.teamshelby.com) you'll notice that the GT500 section doesn't list anything beyond the 2011 model (no 2012's, no future models, etc.). I believe that Ford is done with Shelby and the Boss 302 will be stepping in as the halo model for the Mustang line up. I hope I'm wrong, as I like have GT500's around for sale (we make money on them!), but I don't think there will be any GT500's built after the '11's are done.

Tony Alonso

This is what I was wondering. "Getting on a list" seems to be fraught with good (lets the dealer know I am interested and would like to be contacted early) and bad (lets the dealer know I am interested enough to give <insert your body part here>, especially if I am on multiple lists).

No feeding the ADM monster

Tony Alonso

I hated you people

Maybe I ought to get that baby! White stripes?

Wow, that would be a heck of a short run for the development dollars that must have been put into that engine! I also assume that the GT350 is really where the last of the "car making" would really focus then. Reading the forums and seeing various posts around forums suggests that Shelby is more about "mod shop" and "performance parts" sales. Makes me wonder if this sort of strategy and disagreements (or financial losses) led to Amy Boylan's departure. Only idle specualtion on my part - I don't really have any inside scoop to know what I am talking about here.

Thanks for your perspective, Brian!

1FAFP90

Brian, is the allocation for the LS determined strictly by lottery for Share of Nation dealers?
If so, there is a remote possibility that a high volume dealer could get shut out.

Whammer

You ain't listening!
I never said the SVT dealer was getting an EXTRA one, I said he was sure they would get ONE. There are 2 others on his list so I'm not skewing anything.
By being on 2 lists I'm looking after MY interests. What if I limited myself to 1 dealer and they weren't getting one??? There are ONLY 350 Boss 302's coming up here to Canada. By being #1 on 2 lists I assure myself of getting the best deal possible. Do you have a problem with that?
The 2nd dealer I'm dealing with said NO ADM. Canadian dealers don't seem to screw the buyer over with ADM's- of course we get screwed by having to pay 10-15k more for the same car.

The last part about "is Ford listening" said tongue in cheek. I want more info to make a more INFORMED choice. Do you have a problem with a well informed consumer? I'd hate to deal with your dealership.

Whammer

Ahhh, so that's why Ford put all that money into the aluminum 5.4, they just wanted to give 5500 011 GT500 buyers a real send off!
And of course Ford must be running scared of the Z28 and rather than beat the Z28 they've decided to run away.

My guess is they are playing it very close to the vest and are looking to see exactly what they need to do to stay ahead of Chevy.

B0ssRac3r

Yeah, that doesn't add up. The 5.4 FI Alum is def not going into any other Mustang but the GT500, and having just come out with it, no way it'll be put on the bench in lieu of another model.. The GT500 is absolutely staying in production..take that to the bank.

"To stay ahead of Chevy"? LOL. Boy, are you misinformed. Regarding the Z28.. it's GM that has to play catch up, not Ford. Just to match the performance of the 2011 GT500, GM will have to do some crazy modifications to the new Camaro, because the SS already has the 6L engine at 426 hp. You'd think the new Boss 302 would be the primary competitor for that, but our lovely new 2011 5.0 412 hp bested it already. No, GM absolutely is the one playing catch up, and they'd better do something quick before their entire fan base jumps to the Ford camp.

Five Oh Brian

Hey, Tony, our grabber blue '11 GT500 beckons you, does it? It is white stripes and loaded. MSRP = $57,700. It has an updated ETA of September 14th to arrive here.

I hadn't heard that Amy Boylan left - that is sad news as she was a really cool car person (even she's a Chevy girl at heart).

Bought your Mach 1 early, did you? Patience paid off for me. $23K was a steal. Sold it 3 years later for $21K so it only cost me $2K in depreciation to own it (plus gas/oil/insurance/mods). I was in the right place at the right time on that one!

So, it looks like I'll be keeping my supercharged '07 GT for awhile, since there's a snowball's chance in hell that I can get a Boss 302. Maybe I'd better wait for the reincarnation of the Mach 1?!?!

Five Oh Brian

My understanding after reading the updated memo this morning is that a dealer must first earn a standard Boss 302 via Share-of-Nation or the Lottery. Then, there is a second lottery from within that subgroup of dealers for the Laguna Seca. So, yes, a high volume dealer is not guaranteed a Laguna Seca even if they get a standard Boss 302!

I sure wish I knew if we're one of the 794 top Mustang dealers in the nation. For the cutoff period (Oct 09 to Sep 10) we've only sold 41 new Mustangs. That's enough to be near the top in my region (NW), but nationwide is another story. Keeping my fingers crossed.

JonW

Just because the Shelby may go away after 2011, doesn't mean Ford is going to put the 5.4 on a shelf. It could go into an ultra-high-performance Mustang that doesn't bear the Shelby name. The Boss is a track car. Maybe the 5.4 will go into a Mach 1 or similar drag-style car. Or maybe a Lightning-style pickup will come back and use that motor. Time will tell.

Whammer

Yeah Chevy has to play catch up, but Ford has to stay ahead. They have to maintain the lead that they have. If they don't then they will fall behind. I don't think Ford has any intention of losing ground to Chevy.
The new Z28 is using the 011 Shelby for a comparison mule. I've seen pics of the camo'd Z28 on the track with the GT500. So I'm pretty sure Chevy is looking to better what the GT500 does- it would be pretty poor development team if they came up short. Obviously Ford is well aware of what is going on and will make the GT500 even better and thus Chevy will come up short in 2012. THUS Ford is staying ahead.

Five Oh Brian

Wow, hatred abounds in your post. Settle down, friend; we're all in this together.

I have no problem with you looking out for you. But, when customers get on lists at multiple dealerships the cummulative effect nationwide is that you send an exaggerated demand message to dealers, which in turn fans the flames of ADM for everybody.

As for the "Ford is listening" comment, you gotta remember that announcing a car, reveal final specs/details, and ramping up for orders/production is a process. Just because the internet gives us instant access to info doesn't mean that info can be decided any faster. Decisions still have to be made at Ford corporate and they've clearly told us all publicly that more info is coming in the fall. There is no conspiracy to withhold info from the public.

Are you sure you'd hate to deal with the dealership I work for? Think about it - I'm on the forums regularly getting as much info as possible to better serve our customers when they come in with questions. Hard to believe, but most would-be customers are not surfing Mustang forums so they count on us to know what's up and I try my best to stay up on the current info. You might also notice that quite a few members in these forums bought their Mustangs from the dealer I work for. Ever heard anything bad about us? We treat people very well here. If we didn't, I'd quit and work elsewhere. I have pointed out that we sold our '11 GT500's without ADM's. We're ordering '11 Mustang V6 & GT's for just $99 over the invoice total. We bend over backwards to offer a great deal to our customers. I'm sorry if you think all dealers are evil and want to bend you over, but there are a few really good, honest dealers that are members here who work at nice dealerships who treat customers right.

Worth noting, I'm on these forums as an enthusiast first and foremost. I've owned 6 Mustangs, and currently own a supercharged 07 GT that's my daily driver and drag raced on weekends at our local tracks. It is just a coincidence that I work at a Ford dealer, and I'm happy to share info with you all to help you all and answer questions in an unbiased manor best I can (and I do not have to do so).

Five Oh Brian

You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. I made sure to point out that I hope there's a 2012 GT500, but everyday I'm leaning more toward it winding down with the 2011 model. I've been asking around a lot at Shelby's forums about the 2012 and nobody has any info - it is pure speculation at this point.

Five Oh Brian

I didn't say that the aluminum S/C'd 5.4L is getting shelved. My opinion (again, just pure speculation) is that Ford and Shelby may very well severe ties after the 2011's are done. Then, Ford can rebadge the car as an SVT Cobra for the 2012 model year and beyond. They say history has a way of repeating itself, so wouldn't it be something if Ford took the GT500 away from Shelby again (just as they did in the last 1960's).

Five Oh Brian

I must have been typing as you posted this. I concur with you, though! The 5.4L SC Aluminum motor will live on next year even if the GT500 does not.

Whammer

Brian,

I know you're a pretty good guy. I've seen you on these forums for years. I just thought your comments towards me were outta line.

As as being on 2 lists, I can see your point, but at the same time all of this is Ford's doing. Their vagueness on how many will be produced and how many a dealer will get is to blame, don't you agree?
What if I put my name on only 1 list and then the dealer learned he was not getting one? Then what? I go to another dealer and find out I'm #4 but he's only getting 1, so then I'm screwed. The US dealers seems to screw you guys pretty good on ADM's but Canadian dealers seldom tack on ADM's.

I know how Ford, or other automakers play the info game. It's no different than then video game industry. A little info is leaked about a new game and over the coming months the info trickles out, thus keeping people interested over a long period of time. Give it out all at once and it soon gets forgotten. Plenty of people (auto writers and such) already have a great deal of info on the Boss, but they will all be under embargos not to release the info until time lines that Ford has set have arrived.

Whammer

Still doesn't make sense. The end of the GT500 is something that would be well publicized by Ford. The remaining cars would fly off of the lots instead the cars are now qualifying for rebates and price reductions. Not very good business sense if you ask me.

Five Oh Brian

Look, we're all friends here, right? Allow me to give out advice - one enthusiast to another. Wait until Boss 302 production is well under way or even nearly done before you try to buy one. Wait for a second year of production, even. Then you will have a great opportunity to snag one for a fair price. Ford wants us all to perceive that the Boss 302 is a very limited production car, but we all know that eventually supply will catch up with demand. Think about it; how many people could really want (and afford) a Boss 302. It's a limited audience, so there will be plenty to go around eventually if you're patient enough.

Those who insist on buying very early and lock up #1 positions of dealer lists well in advance of final specs being released are the same ones giving dealers the signal that this is a hot car and to slap on ADM's. Those who want to first on their block with a new toy almost always pay way more for the privilege. Doesn't matter if we're talking about cars, or the latest in electronics, or some new shiny toy. That is just plain how our market-based economy works - right or wrong.

I used my 2003 Mach 1 story above to serve as a perfect example of time = money. Ask Tony Alonso and others how much they paid to get an early Mach 1. He and I paid vastly different amounts of money I'm sure for the same **** car - only difference was the timing of the purchase.

In 2006 when GT500 fever first started I was the keeper of our dealership's "list." The list was seperated into two sections. The first was the group that would pay our asking price (which was very competitive versus any other dealers in our zone and/or region, by the way). We had a couple dozen people on that list, but only 6 cars allocated for that whole first year, so we couldn't get enough cars to fill all of those requests. The second group on our list was the folks that said they wanted to pay a lot less (about 80-90 customers at any given time!). I politely explained to them that once we satisfied demand for the first group, we'd start working on the second group. Needless to say, we never had enough cars to get down to the second group. Of course, by the end of 2008 the market was pretty saturated with GT500's, so pricing moved to MSRP and below. We sold quite a few of our 08/09's below MSRP when the economy tanked. The 10/11's popped back up to MSRP as that was where the market went. Future GT500's (if there are any) will continue to fluctuate with the economy and competition.

Five Oh Brian

There are no rebates or incentives on '10 or '11 GT500's. And I don't think Ford & Shelby would want to publicize their parting ways, if that were to ever happen (and I believe it's gonna happen sooner than later). Look how bad the publicity was recently when Shelby took away everything from the SAAC. Wow, talk about a black eye for Shelby! The shininess has worn off of the Shelby badge at Ford. It is not the cool, latest thing anymore and sales have been dropping like crazy. Ford didn't cut 2011 GT500 production down to 5,500 units to add value for its customers (and I hope nobody thinks otherwise). Ford capped production to meet demand which has fallen off a cliff for the GT500.