Yeah they are in constant denial that the 5.0 and now the Boss can hand their beloved SSs their ***. Love it.

 

So is this the infamous "Road runner" engine Boomer was always hinting about?

 

I find it quite ironic that they always resort to taking shots at the styling, mainly the rear end. But I would hate it too if that's all I kept seeing every time we raced.

 

Oh yeah, I had forgotten all about that. I guess this is it. I think it's great. Wonder if there is anything to be had with the addition of an open element air filter.

 

Love to see the +40hp Shaun got on his car with a Steeda CAI and a tune.

 

all those internal changes make me wonder if this is a 500HP engine with some tweaking? Maybe wishful thinking on my part.

 

Which makes me ask, have they seen the rear end of the new Camaro? It's not like it's going to win any beauty contests, either!

If that's all the Camaro guys have got, Ford's doing an excellent job with the Mustang, IMO.

 

Yea, it dosen't make much sense to me. They make the point that the guy drove it one time with new intake and was so impressed with the power that he said "do it". You would probably have to have 20 HP at the least to even feel a difference, so they put in new cams to get 5 hp, spend all that money to port the heads for another 5 hp to get a thirty hp increse, and that's not even mentioning that they probably got 5 hp from the lighter rotating assembly.
It's just hard for me to believe that they spent all that time momey and detail and it only picked up 30 HP, but I could be wrong?

 

good post. Although I imagine the effect of the intake at high RPMs is rather dramatic. Power starts dropping at ~6500 rpms in the standard engine. Having power increase for another 1000 rpms after that probably makes a big impact that you can feel. There could be 50HP plus difference in the two motors at 7000.

 

ONLY 30HP? That's pretty impressive from a factory engineered and warranted engine that keeps the same displacement. Again, people get so hung up on peak numbers. Maybe it has better power at all RPM's. You know, where 99.9% of your driving is. And a lightened valvetrain will rev a lot faster and be more useful.

 

I'd be willing to bet that the aftermarket can hit 500hp (crank) w/ this engine w/ very little effort.

 

nice! can't wait to see the final car and price.

 

This thought hit me as I read some posts.

I remember the article mentioned shorter intake runners, ported, careful mating of the intake to head for zero interference, lighter weight valve train (weren't the cams already hollow?), etc.; for better breathing/cfm volume at the higher RPM.
And it also mentioned some revision to TiVCT & PCM as I remember.
Yet while the HP jumped, the torque did not.

That suggests to me that the TiVCT hit its limitations of flexible cam timing. Like manually adjusted cam timing, it is limited due to valve to valve and/or valve to piston inteference. The performance leverage from this mechanism appears to be pretty well used up and so its probably fairly close to its max NA capability.

So in the end, the real focus was on stretching power in the upper range that has the added 500(+?) RPM. And so they strengthened the bottom end to take the extra RPM's & HP.

So really this was a modified design based on higher RPM's to yield the extra HP.

That's my hunch at this point.


[EDIT] PS: And therefore the only thing left to increase performance is forced induction or turbo. And the intakes/heads and bottom end are both ready!

 

Since the factory intake is the same, I wonder what a new CAI will yield for this motor.

It's safe to say that you're not going to go to your local Ford dealer and order a few parts to look like you're a Boss car.

 

Yea, like I said, "Only 30 HP". I am not hung up on peak number and I am very very inpressed with the car's engine as well as the car as a whole. The point of my post was that they added a short runner intake, bigger cams, new tune, lighter valve train, increased rpms by 500, lighter rotating assembly, and ported heads then expect us to believe they only got an increase of 30 HP. This is essentially like taking an engine to a speed shop and having it completly gone through and built. They could eaisily have picked up 30 HP with a slightly more aggressive tune 10 HP, intake 10 HP, and increse rev limiter 10 hp but yet they chose to do all the other stuff as well.
My only conclusion is that either they 1) underated it or 2) a tune is going to add 50 or 60 HP.

 

Don't forget the Cobra Jet only has like 475hp...but runs low 10's at 130+mph. It obviously is very detuned/conservative.

Actually reminds me of the 1993 cobra, when it got the addition GT 40 heads, GT 40 type Intake, 1.7 RR's, different cam, 65mm TB, 70mm Mass air but only was an additional 10hp over the GT 5.0.

 

The '93 Cobra was actually 30HP more than the GT engine. Starting in '93 Ford revised the HP ratings to better reflect all the minor changes over the years that cost HP. They also has a new testing process that they used. The rating for the standard 5.0 was 205HP, Cobra was 235HP.

 

C&D has an article on CTA (cam torque actuated) and OPA (oil pressure actuated) VVT systems. The 4.6 3v has the upperhand in this regard when it comes to cam control at high RPM. The 5.0's CTA system is better at low and mid engine speeds. Another interesting thing about a CTA system is that it will not work on an in-line 6 IIRC.

To the 5.0's benefit are those kick *** cylinderheads, even if cam timing cannot be optimized for high rpm operation, those heads flow well enough that it covers this short coming. This is a trick GM uses with the LS engines. Even though the LS engines use more aggressive cams than thier 4v competitors, they are still pretty mild, but because the heads flow so well, the engine can make power past the cams effective power range.

I wouldn't say inferior in every aspect. Its a heavy ***** but the Zeta II chassis is alot more rigid than the S-197. I also think the Camaro is more accessible in terms of extracting its maximum performance by dint of the IRS and beefy chassis simply because its more confidence inspiring. In the hands of the average guy this counts alot and you'll see it in "real world" comparos where the Mustang simply scares the crap out of an F5 driver who will claim the Mustang doesn't handle as good.

 

Can't wait to see someone get one and slap a procharger at 10+psi on it can you say 600+whp?
I'm sure you will be able to get the intake manifold for your regular 5.0 in time like say late next year? But does anyone think that ford might offer the whole engine in a small quantity? That would be sweet imagine finding an old boss with a blown/swapped/junked motor and fixing it up and swapping the new boss into it that would rock

 

That's interesting. I know several structural rigidity-enhancing measures were taken in 2011 to further eliminate NVH in the Mustang. Where did you get this information? And how was rigidity measured, comparing the two chassis?

I've driven both the Mustang (obviously) and Camaro. While the Camaro had power and, yes, it handled pretty well, it doesn't hold a candle to what Ford's been able to do with the 2011 Mustang, in my opinion. The Camaro's claustrophobic interior (I'm only 6'1"), high belt line, cartoonishly-large proportions and styling that sacrifices driver and passenger comfort led to a less-than-confidence-inspiring stint just trying to change lanes and park the thing! The smaller, lighter, more-nimble Mustang, on the other hand, is what I'd call the handler, when comparing the two. Its ride is Cadillac smooth and its handling is approaching world-class (I also own a 2010 BMW 3-Series, so I have a pretty good metric to which to compare). Pretty much all the reviews I read essentially mimicked exactly what I stated above, too. If the Camaro boys state otherwise, well, it wouldn't be the first time one of them took a pot shot at the 'Stang.