SCARIER

More and more I am seeing the dual clutch transmission on sport cars. The Boxter's base price is less than the Shelby GT500 for example and has the dual cluch as an option. What do you guys thing of the chances the next gen Shelby having this option?

bluethunderhorse

The current GT500 already has a twin disc clutch setup as standard equipment

xlover

haha i think he was reffering to a dual clutch automated gearbox like BMW, porsche, VW, Audi, use on thier cars.

Since ford has been working on this tech and it will be available on the fiesta and maybe the focus i think it is only a matter of time before they adapt it to thier high HP, high torque applications. I would not be surprised to see this as an option on the 2014.

YSUsteven

Maybe in the near future, but not yet.

rhumb

Would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Of course, I'm basing this on Ford's "Good enough" mantra, which they seem to be vigorously replacing with a "Great" mantra of late if their latest products (including the 3.7 and 5.0 Mustang updates) are any indication.

I think a DCT would be fantastic for these newer, higher-reving motor that benefit most from a slew of tightly packed and quickly swapped cogs. I've driven a couple Audis/VWs with their DCT and think they are the clear tranny tech of the future -- and this coming from an old dyed-in-the-wool stick wiggler. It's hard to argue about the ease and practicality of a slush-box combined with the speed, control and efficiency of a manual. Eye-blink, sub-.100 msec. shifts without even taking one's paws off the rim are fantastic for driving speed and control.

If I were head of Ford, I'd mandate that all current slush boxes and manuals be replaced by DCTs. This would halve the number of trannies Ford would have to make, simplify everything from R&D through production and certification to parts, repairs and warranty at the back end. Better, IMHO, to focus all efforts and resources into developing one superb DCT rather than spreading it out over two good-enough old-school trannies. Heck, that's what Ferrari, the paragon of performance, seems clearly to be doing.

Now let's hear from those who still rue the passing of the 4-bbl carb, leaf springs and drum brakes...

zektor

No thanks...

What do you want ...a drivers car? ...or a Playstation?

Take the new Nissan GTR for instance. No-one is denying it is a very capable car. But anyone can drive the car quickly... because it does pretty much everything for you. It's a car for the Playstation generation (and I like video games!).

Nope, give me a manual gearbox and foot operated clutch over the above every day of the week. I want a sense of involvement when driving, not to press a lone finger on a switch that suddenly engages gear. How boring is that!?

Be careful what you wish for... a lot of modern cars are utterly boring to drive because they do so much for you. The Mustang was made to be driven, and that means the user should be swapping the cogs... not a bunch of electronics.

Cheers
Dazza

cdynaco

Yeah I agree with that. I don't like how F1 has taken some of the driver's skill out of the game with their electronic shifters. Knowing your shift points for the feel of the course, and then having to execute those shifts better than the other guy is part of racing. Even with street driving I want to be directly involved in the performance of my machine... sort of like a Mustang Cyborg!

stangfoeva

I agree!

Now of course I'm taking this to the extreme, but imagine if there were a system to just plug in the GPS coordinates of the track into the car and it drives the course for you with optomized shifting, braking, acclerating etc. How much fun would that be?

My point is, I hope the Mustang never gets to the point where the driver really doesn't do anything (case in point the GT-R)

bob

[quote=rhumb;5823610on Ford's "Good enough" mantra, .[/quote]

A relative term, I for one would only want an SMG/DSG as an option to a regular manual.

Sure an SMG/DSG GT500 would be fast as hell, probably a bonafide deep in the 11 second zone factory car, but its the automotive equivalent of paying someone else for the priviledge of watching them have sex with your wife.

rhumb

I don't think a good DSG necessarily detracts from one's involvement in driving, but rather, refocuses it a bit more towards overall vehicle control and dynamics rather than just getting it moving in the first place. This probably puts a DSG somewhere between a regular manual and a slush-box automatic on this subjective continuum but would likely, objective, be faster and more capable than either, not to mention more efficient.

In some ways, one could argue that a DSG give you even finer control over power output than a slower, clumsier, if more involved, stick shifter.

It would be interesting to see various lap times between stick and DSG cars (M3, various Audis, VWs and Porsches, etc.) to better quantify all this. Current indications seem to show the DSG boxes being a touch quicker in instrumented testing (acceleration), but it would also be interested to see how, in a more complex driving environment than a simple drag race a DSG either enhances or detracts both objective and subjectively.

Probably the ideal solution is, of course, to offer both, though again, it's far more likely that we'll only see a stick shifter in the GT500 and a slushbox option in the other Stang models.

xlover

Well the DSG was designed with racing in mind so the driver can focus his attention to the line etc, it makes perfect rev matched downshifts which is where i think many of the people out there feel you are missing some of the skill needed.

I dont know if many are familiar with it but nissan has a really great technology option on the 370z for the traditional manuals. the system senses what gear you are about to put it in and automatically rev matches the engine to where it needs to be for the new gear so you still do the clutch footwork but if you didnt give it enough gas to match on your down shift instead of lurching the car does the work for you. this i think would be an easy adaptation for ford and other manufacturers out there to offer as all it needs is some sensors in the tranny and software on the engine computer. It is defeatable for those that want to do it all themselves.

personally i would rather have the system help out on the shifting and let me focus on my lines but i know its different for everyone

cdynaco

I've always been a double clutcher regardless of synchromesh. And it has surprised me how many posts I've read where some Mustang drivers don't understand it.

Maybe its sort of a generational thing. Video games, gps, all things made of chips needing batteries, automated 'manual' shifting,... vs real world activity without an LCD screen, compass & contour maps & landmarks, simple devices remaining mechanical, and good 'ol double clutching.

Knowing your machine well enough to know just how far to push the gas pedal and the sound of the engine telling you've got the revs equal to the downshift - for a variety of shifting speeds, road conditions, curves, hills, and gear selection - these skills only come from driving experience. The tach trains you but after that its pedal feel, sound of your engine revs, and speed sensation that combine and become second nature for 'road course' shifting, while your eyes are on the road seeking your next line ahead.

I would not consider myself a driver without that ability and if my machine can't give me that, might as well just sit in the chair and yell thru the com to the Chief Engineer, "Scotty - I need more power!"

IMO

Moosetang

Every model in Ford's lineup will have DCTs eventually.

rhumb

Could very well be a bit of a generational thing, with the young'ens more open and eager to adopt technical/electronic solutions, seeing at as a natural means of improving the breed rather than somehow "cheating" or something.

Then there are the old war horses who still bemoan the passing of Holly carbs, leaf springs and thing that real men set there own timing point dwell on moonless nights by feel and instinct alone.

Recall the hue and cry about how electronic fuel injection would be the downfall of hot rodding, never mind anti-lock brakes -- both of which are now part and parcel of the hi-po driving world. I suspect the adoption of DCTs will follow a similar acceptance trajectory whereas in 10-15 years time, stick wiggling will be right up there with hand cranks and drum brakes.

harristotle

Easy there lol, I think I fall into the playstation generation category, but I completely agree with you. I'm all about new technology and everything, but I also love the driving experience that a traditional manual gives you.

bob

That's it in a nutshell.

Purely from a performance standpoint an SMG/DSG is a great choice - there is probably no better way to get down the road be it straight or twisty but like others have mentioned (and me crudely so), its a calibration engineer thats making the shifts, not the driver and IMO it ultimately dilutes the experience.

DeLorean17

Even growing up in the Playstation generation, I don't like paddleshift or sequentials. I'll take a manual transmission any day.

It probably wouldn't stop me from getting a GT-R if I had the money though...

future9er24

this is a tossup for me. I hate the GTR for its "you're just along for the ride" attitude (but i still will give credit where credit is due.. those engineers did their jobs fo sho) and I love running through the gears of my car... BUT i thing DCT is good thing, assuming its done right.

and the calibration engineer is not making the shifts.. you are. you shift when you want, it just does it faster than you'd be able to otherwise.

I don't see DCT making it into every mustang any time soon. it'll probably start as a GT500 option, then be GT500/SE only, then trickle to the GT and eventually the base model. regardless, i think its gonna be a good thing. as mentioned earlier, EFI, ABS, OHC and tons of other features we have now were once looked down upon. I cant wait til it gets here.

If i had the ability, I'd drop a coyote and DCT into the II

PTRocks

I think there are a slew of Toyota owners who would debate you on that point.

PTRocks

It's being attempted next year.