Originally Posted by CaptDistraction

So picked up a call this morning from Ford, and here's the deal:

They're not going to cover it, because I "race the vehicle".

I made it clear that the vehicle is not raced or used in any form of competition.

However, it seems Ford and I have different versions of what "racing" is defined as.

Their definition-
-Any use that heats up the tires
-Any rev condition near 7k
-Any HPDE event that has video on youtube (yeah, they spent time researching and documenting the use of my vehicle in a High Performance Driving Education School in NASA)
-Especially scenarios where other drivers (in my case instructors) have been in the vehicle, driving

It doesn't matter when the fault was, the fact the vehicle was ever used on a track calls into question the warranty of the vehicle.

So now, I'm going to get the vehicle repaired, but I have to take a hard look at what I want to do. I'm paying for this vehicle for another 4 years and I have no warranty to back it (I guess I should see if the extended warranty I purchased is refundable, if I keep it maybe put that money into a savings account).

I can't imagine whatever car I'd replace this with, but I'm beyond frustrated at Ford (which I guess has every right to research how the car is used, but still no less invasive and frustrating).

This car is a mustang, a car that has performance expectations. I bought this car with certain expectations of how it would drive. They marketed this car as a car to be driven. All the positive reviews in magazines, talking to the Coyote development team and Mark Wilson of Ford Racing led me to buying this car.

It isn't fully Ford's fault, I'm equally to blame for making modifications to my car and using it on a HPDE event, but bleep-it, I really expected that the car to hold to the expectations set by Ford and Co.

Having to pay for a clutch is one thing, I can certainly understand if there's no other possible cause for it to be damaged other than exceeding the factory redline. Its another thing that if I can't expect any further warranty claim to go through on this detailed case they've built against me.

Since there's a lesson to be had, here's a link to the 2011 Mustang warranty PDF, I recommend everyone be fully aware of the terms and conditions (despite ambiguous use of language) http://tinyurl.com/3lyaq3n

So now its time to make tough decisions. Its a "darn" shame because when I think of what car I want to be in, its a Ford Mustang. Not an M3, S4, camaro, corvette, wrx, evo, lotus, etc.

Originally Posted by blackgt87

There are "clutch protection" tables in there and a tuner I talked to said that if one were to turn them all the way off it would destroy the clutch. He said that he did it to a GT500, and the clutch was burned out of it in one week.

Originally Posted by 06GT

Interesting, anyone got more info?

Originally Posted by Overboost

Wow. You didnt do any HPDE events between the time of the first repair and recent failure, did you?

Also, was the decision the dealer or Ford to do this? Just wondering if it can be escalated further. Waiting for FCS to chime in.

Originally Posted by CaptDistraction

This came from FCS's regional contact for my region. The dealer has not spoken with me yet, I'm sure Mike at Bell Ford isn't looking forward to the call (they've been as helpful as they can be, so I'm sure he knows I wouldnt be happy).

Since I have nothing to lose, yes, the car did see one HPDE event between failures.

Originally Posted by blackgt87

Wait now I'm lost...

You said you have never done a burnout or beat on the car........but you use it to teach people how to road race? Like around a real road course? AND you let other people drive it? How can you even be sure what they did?

I'm not sure if I am understanding you correctly, but it sounds to me like Ford doesn't owe you a clutch at all. You and other people raced your car and burned the clutch out of it. Now you have to go buy one. Doesn't sound like a big deal to me.

Originally Posted by blackgt87

Wait now I'm lost...

You said you have never done a burnout or beat on the car........but you use it to teach people how to road race? Like around a real road course? AND you let other people drive it? How can you even be sure what they did?

I'm not sure if I am understanding you correctly, but it sounds to me like Ford doesn't owe you a clutch at all. You and other people raced your car and burned the clutch out of it. Now you have to go buy one. Doesn't sound like a big deal to me.

Originally Posted by CaptDistraction

you're mostly right on all counts:

-This car has not done a burnout
-This car has not seen a drag strip
-This car has driven on a road course
-There have been drivers other than myself

however
-This car has not been raced, period. Racing implies either driving in competition against other cars or against a clock, and requires a certain mindset.
-This car was used in HPDE, high performance driving education. The focus of which is to learn how to navigate a road course in a manner that is safe and smooth. I've been doing that with cars for years now. If there's other drivers, they're instructors and instructing me on smooth technique or other safety related issues.

My own technical opinion is that undue stress was NOT placed against the clutch assembly, or improper driving technique, as stated in prior posts. I know that doesn't matter as I'm not a technician by any means, much less a Ford certified one. Just an enthusiast, who's expectation for the car wasn't met.

If that sucks up my credibility, that's fine. I'm not in a position to really lose anything. My issue isn't one clutch, my issue is the case that my car is now not covered and that ford went to such lengths to present a case against me.

What happens now when I take it in down the road because a headlight harness has an issue or a wiper blade motor quits? What if I decide to move to another ford vehicle, is that case going to follow me? That's the kinda thing I'm taking issue with, in addition to:

What if the clutch is replaced with an aftermarket unit, and I experience this failure again due to something related to say the slave cylinder, heatsoak, or incorrect installation?

I've already admitted that this situation is half my fault for modifying the car, and using it at any point for other than Ford-approved visits to the grocery store. (sorry, couldn't get through the last sentence without some soured sarcasm).

Originally Posted by blackgt87

To be honest you're taking this better than I would expect anyone to, and certainly better than I would. But I think most of us would agree that repeatedly going WOT throttle to near redline around a race track counts as racing. Whether or not theres a clock or other cars or money to win.

I also think you're jumping the gun a little on the rest of your warranty. I didn't see where you said ford revoked the whole thing. They said they denied the clutch replacement based on that case, and I can't even blame them for that. Did they ever say that if your power window motor stops working or if your power steering pump goes bad they won't replace it? If so thats BS, but I'm not sure it's the case. My dealer specifically told me that "if the modification can be linked to the part that failed they won't cover it, if they failed part has no link to the modification then its still covered". I'd hope that your clutch failure is the only thing they are blaming on the "racing".

At this point I would take your car to a qualified (in your own opinion, I personally would purposely pick someone other than the dealer so they don't repeat a mistake they may have made) shop for clutch system check and clutch replacement. Figure out what clutch will do what you want, have it installed by someone who knows how to verify that the rest of the components related to clutch operation are functioning properly. And then go back to enjoying your car. If your wiper motor breaks I would still expect ford to fix it.

Originally Posted by CaptDistraction

For sure. I agree on the points. (though I'd expect the car to be able to repeatedly climb at WOT to near redline and not grenade, however having raised said redline, not sure there's footing for me to make said statement).

Talked to my service manager a minute ago. They want to install Boss302 parts on the car, I'm not liable for the loaner car (thank God), and they're looking on their side regarding cancellation of the powertrain warranty on this car. They initially said he'd make sure (the service adviser), but said that he did not believe a total cancellation had been placed. So maybe that's a sign that this isn't as bad as I've been led to believe. However, he did mention going forward any powertrain concerns would be held to the same scrutiny. Also mentioned a mild distaste for how Ford handled the privacy issue and researching me online (a side effect of the modern world I guess).

I've talked with a number of clutch manufacturers and dealers, and am waiting to hear costs on the repairs through Bell Ford. Once all the information is on the table I'll make my decision on how to proceed. The big gamechanger is if the car still has a powertrain warranty or not. I'm headed over to the dealer in a bit to take some pictures and look at the parts myself. I may send the car to Goodspeed performance in Scottsdale AZ for followup pending what happens. They've got an incredible eye for detail over there, so maybe they can shed some light as well.