Mustang259

Left the GT at the dealer this morning, at least this time they gave me a loaner, I had the chance to speak with my mechanic and his is just a frustrated as I am, He is now pushing for a replacement PCM which is what I have been asking for from day 1. I hope he can swing it with Ford and this fixes the problem.
the loaner is a Dodge Avenger and it is awful, why would anyone buy one those?

mfc133

There's some threads about this same problem floating around on other Mustang forums. I sub'd to all of them in case someone comes up with an answer:

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2011-mustang-gt-tech/360265-2013-mustang-gt-check-engine-light-question-18.html


http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showt...=93272&page=14

Hopefully if enough people make their issue known it will lead to a new TSB to correct this problem.

Mustang259

there are already 2 TSB's out for the issue.
I took the car to my dealer yesterday and the mechanic told me he was replacing the PCM, He is taking a chance since Ford Corporate may not approve the swap, but He is a very good good mechanic and feels the PCM is the problem. He won the the Regional Award for Service Techs in 2012 and I think he cares as much about the car as I do.

I hope Ford corporate doesn't hang him out to dry.

I am waiting for the part so I will re post when it is in.

Mustang259

Well, Emmy Lou is overnighting at the dealer and they have strict instructions to keep her inside. It seems that Ford has sent an Engine management specialist/engineer to help iron out the problem and they are definitely replacing the PCM and a couple of sensors, hence the overnite stay.
I am actually pleased that they are taking this issue more seriously than past attempts to resolve the problem. I should be able to run her hard Friday and see what's up.
This time they gave me a Chevy silverado which is a heck of a lot better than the Dodge Avenger.
I'll post again this weekend.

Darrell Lee

So, I took my car in yesterday and they reprogrammed the PCM to the latest calibration. Codes were PO300, PO301, PO303, PO316. Ran fine on the way home. This morning, when trying to merge onto a major highway, it almost died at 50 MPH. THIS IS A MAJOR SAFETY ISSUE! It started flashing the CEL, and then felt like it was running on 6 cylinders for about a mile, then straightened itself out. Did the same thing on the way home and CEL stayed on this time. Dropped back off at dealership today. They "have never seen this issue on the internal Ford tech chat link nor are they aware of any major issues with this." Are you kidding me? Either Ford has a major communications issue or they are in denial.

mfc133

Yeah it's happened to me at a couple inopportune moments like when merging onto the highway and such. It's disconcerting when you try to accelerate to merge but can't. My dealer is replacing the crank position sensor. I'll let you guys know if it cures the problem.

Mustang259

There may be separate issues with the misfires noted in this thread, the misfire on my mustang doe NOT affect drivability and there is no engine hesitation, etc. It is a FALSE misfire and shows a CEL with codes. There is nothing wrong with the car except the false CEL.
I believe there are separate TSB's for an engine that actually is running rough due an actual misfire, unfortunately I am not privy to those.
I strongly suggest you get in touch with Deysha at Ford Customer Service on this forum and try to get a regional Rep involved.
Hope this helps.

FordService

Please keep your CSM informed, Darrell Lee.

Deysha

cloud9

You can add this thread to your list.

http://bossmustangsonline.com/index.php?topic=2598.0

We've been dealing with this since the Boss was released in early 2011. They haven't even issued a TSB for those of us with 2012s yet, but unfortunately it sounds like the ones issued for the 2013s aren't fixing the issue anyway. We've been patiently waiting for them to release the 2012 TSB assuming the '13 fix worked. By the way does anyone know why there would be a difference between the two model years? Did they make changes to the engines?

In any event it's time for Ford to make this a priority. We thought it was limited to the Boss engines with a relatively small number having the issue. (It's primarily occurring in cars that are tracked) Now it looks like it's happening with the GT engines as well and on the street which affects a significantly higher number of vehicles.

Darrell Lee

Picked my car up from dealership last Friday and have driven it 3 days now with no problems. Fingers crossed that it is fixed. Spoke with the mechanic when I picked it up, and he said something about Ford Corporate having him hold the engine at 4000 RPM's with clutch depressed for 5 minutes with a brief run up to 6000 RPM's --after the flash. (I may not have this exactly right, but this is the gist)

14Glassback

I am a Service Advisor for a different manufacturer and was a tech prior to that. A check engine light will flash any time the PCM sees a situation that could reslut in Catalytic Converter damage. Common cause... misfire dumping raw fuel into the Cat. Obviously it is impossible to diagnose something like this thru a forum. Although my customers seem to think I should be able to do it over the phone! But to me it sounds like there could be two different issues. I think some of you have software issues resulting in a false check light. And those experiencing actual rough running may have coil pack issues. I would try swapping coils from misfiring cylinders to non misfiring cylinders. If the misfire moves... problem solved... No further diag required.

mfc133

No it's not a coil pack problem. Every time my car misfires it logs codes on different random cylinders, not the same ones. The dealer also replaced my #1 coil pack but it made no difference.

To clarify I'm talking about the issue where the engine stumbles while the CEL is blinking, not the false CEL issue.

My car is going in next week for a new crank position sensor, hoping that takes care of it.

cloud9

That's the exact same issue many of us are having with the Boss engines. I've had the crankshaft sensor relearn, recalibration, and an entire engine wiring harness still to no avail. Hopefully the crankshaft position sensor replacement does it for you. It seems they have isolated it to that sensor but I had the sense the fix was going to be in a new calibration. What we were being told initially was that driveline vibrations from things like track curbing were being transmitted through the driveline and being picked up by the crankshaft position sensor as misfires. Then we were told banging the rev limiter was the cause.

Mustang259

I know have mine back from dealer, new PCM and crank shaft sensor, they also ran numerous diagnostics and so far it is running fine no false cel and no issues.
I hope this last trip has fixed the problem.

Darrell Lee

I spoke too soon. It started missing yesterday morning about 2 miles from home. Engine temperature was up to about 165 degree (head temp) and I had just hit 3rd gear. It acted like it was running on 7 cylinders for about 30 seconds. Was fine the rest of the day and today.
This really sucks. Between my wife and me, we have had 22 new foreign cars since
1977. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have needed a warranty repair on all of them combined --including my 2003 BMW. Thought I would buy from an American company to support our economy as much as I can plus I had read that Ford has really turned it around. And now, this will be the 4th warranty visit in 2 months. And I have a Chinese transmission, which I didn't know about before buying it. Very frustrated at this point.

TheReaper

Quit complaining and trade it for a foreign car.

Darrell Lee

Quit complaining? Really? Do you really believe someone shouldn't complain about a new $40,000 car in its' 4th or 5th year (?) of production with the same basic engine having these issues which involve multiple owners? And with the vast resources of Ford MOCO not having a handle on what to do? Many veteran Ford Techs chiming-in here and elsewhere say that a new PCM will likely fix it, yet Ford doesn't try this? Is this too expensive because too many folks are having this issue? One guy on another forum started having this exact problem in November 2012, and they just finally fixed it in March 2013. Quit complaining? Really?

TheReaper

My car has the same PCM as does your car. I doubt that's the problem. The new tune could be the problem.

mfc133

Got car back from dealer lastnight, they replaced the CKP (crank position sensor) assembly.

FYI, this involves pulling trans/clutch/flywheel and dropping the oil pan because the rear crankshaft seal needs to be replaced when you do this.

It's too soon to call it fixed for sure, but I haven't been able to reproduce the problem yet. There's also a guy on allfordmustangs who had the CKP replaced and has been problem-free for 500 miles:

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2011-mustang-gt-tech/360265-2013-mustang-gt-check-engine-light-question-22.html#post3970953

Dineau

That probably explain why Ford is so hesitant to do this repair !!!

They probably prefer to just do the relearn or program change rather than pulling all that hardware...