bones302

so can I ask a stupid question? I know nothing about audio electronics, so. I have the shaker 500 and I upgraded the fronts to the pioneers and the backs to the polks. Still want a bit more of a kick. Not looking to add a sub, so would I see an improvement in sound quality if I just added the frd24 and an amp?

czbrian

I'm actually using the fronts off the frd24 and don't hear the rolloff. However, maybe I am missing out on some low end bass and not even realizing it since I don't have baseline to compare to. My subs are loud though (too loud for my taste actually).

On thing I did when using the frd24 is add in 18" of wire in order to mount the frd24 under the passenger side of the dash for easy access in case I wanted to make adjustments later on without taking everything apart again. Also I thought I might want to add a small amount of amplification to the front 6x8"s. By adding the additional wire, I can cut the speaker wire after the frd24 to add in speaker wire from my amps which I have prerun from the trunk so I wouldn't have to take any of that apart later either. I soldered each of those wires together which was a pain but it has been worth it.

czbrian

I think you would notice an improvement and it shouldn't cost too much for the install if you don't do it yourself. Just about any small 4 channel amp will be an improvement over factory.

RobDis

That was a good idea.

RobDis

Have you tried adjusting the crossover frequency on the amplifier? Also of your using a 12 inch woofer that might be more than what you wanted. Another problem ice discovers lately is rattling, everywhere. But some strategically placed dynamat will fix that. About to go play aroun with the sound right now. I'll post my findings.

Hytek

I'll try that next. I have a 10,but the box is ported which is probably why it's so bassy. The bass **** definitely helps, because I couldn't listen to it like that all the time.

RobDis

Ok I connected the sub to the front RCA channels and there was no difference. I tuned the amp to 80hz and the sub response is better but I lose my higher bass notes but the lows are deafening in a good way! But since I mostly listen to rock not rap that will not work. So I tuned the amp back to 120hz and tomorrow I will dig around and find the front sub amps and tap the output wires with the LOC and see what it sounds like. But the roll off is definitely still there. All in all the roll off isn't that bad. With the kicker kx3 it was way more pronounced. This sounds pretty good as is but I'm going to continue to work on this for research purposes and because eventually those front RCA's are going to be plugged into a 4 channel amplifier and I'll have all the speakers amplified on the interior.

RobDis

Yeah that 10 will hit like a 12 in the right box. Ported is louder than sealed for sure and gets lower frequencies. The lower the number the lower the bass frequency the higher the number and you will pick up the hard hitting bass and some of the lows to. It's not uncommon for even the smallest sub to over power the interior speakers if they aren't amplified. I think that's why I'm so happy with mine because I have 6x9's in the rear deck amplified.

czbrian

Are you running the door subs in addition to the sub in your trunk? If so and you have a high crossover point (120hz), you are likely to have phase issues between your sub and the 8"s which can cause cancellation and generally muddy sound.

http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...ID~100789~PN~1

RobDis

This is a definite possibility. Wasn't thinking of this. Appreciate the link. I'm going to unplug the door subs today, partially because I was goon to anyway and because of the link you posted. I was thinking of putting some 6.5's there anyway.

RobDis

Ok here is the result. Hooked up my PAC SNI-35 which is just your basic LOC with adjustable outputs (picture below). I tapped the positive and negative outputs on the factory amplifier. Beware, the factory subs are dual voice coil and there are 2 positives and negatives per sub. I only used 2 from each output left and right. Make sure you dont use 2 positives or 2 negatives, i doubt you would blow the amp but if you do it definitely wont be covered under warranty. Now I have a solid low frequency signal and you can definitely tell. The bass is the way it should be now. I used the wiring diagrams on this site to determine which wires I tapped. http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=710&viewfile=130 - Audio System and Navigation.pdf
I navigated to the audio system and then to the Navigation/Shaker 500 and 1000 Late build. I also used the thread on how to dissassemble your interior which shows you what your factory amplifier looks like. http://www.fast351.com/11GT/stereoin...ructions4.html Once all my wires were tapped I tested the sound and it was miles better than before. The roll off is no longer there. Had to adjust the amp once again as well and lower the gain and change the crossover.

So the AOEM-FRD24 is just sending audio to the Kicker KX3 now. Thats right I hooked it back up. Me big smart caveman now and read instruction manual. I was tuning the KX3 wrong. It was definitely a user problem. Now I have the rear speakers running off the KX3 again and sounding right. The bass beats hard now. Still have some tuning to do before its finalized. I also took a picture of my amp rack. There are some wires showing but hey, this isn't a show car and I really don't care. I wrapped most of them up and tied them all down. So when I want to change something all I have to do is disconnect speaker wires, and RCA's from the amps. Then disconnect the power, remote, and ground from the distribution blocks and the whole thing comes out and I can bring it in the house and work on it. Also I moved my remote wire to the FRD24 and it works as advertised.

The last thing I did was remove the factory subs and truthfully I cant even tell that they are gone. As for them causing some of the "muddy" sound I really can't say. All I know is that they are gone and I don't miss them at all. So they were pointless with the sub in the rear. There is a 10mm bolt on the back of the door panel that has to be removed, then you take the trim ring off, remove the 8 screws and the sub just pops out. The wires go through a hole in the enclosure the sub sits in and the rubber grommet just pops right out. The sub location would make a great place for a nice big quality mid bass driver. There are some 3 way component systems out there that would fit awesome in the door with the main driver in the sub location, the smaller driver in the 6x8 location and a 1 inch tweeter mounted in the door. Though they are pretty expensive. But it is a possibility with the subs removed. I have a pair or Alpine 6.5 2 way's laying around so im going to make an adapter and install those in the subwoofer locations.

Pictures on the next page.

RobDis

Here are the pics.

Hytek

Good write up Rob! So I take it that the sound is more even across different volumes now right?

RobDis

It was in the short test I did sitting in my carport. I will be spending more time listening to it today and will go through my songs a little more and review it later today. First day of school here for the kiddos so Im taking my daughter to her first day of first grade and have a job interview. Gonna be a busy day!

Hytek

Good luck man!

RobDis

Ok it took me a little longer because I wanted to make sure of a few things before i reported back. Connecting my LOC to the factory amp did not get rid of the roll off. I still get it though its not as bad as it was when connected to the rear speaker connections. I also discovered that my box is way too big. I ported the orginal box i built and its better but still not quite there. So it may be back to the drawing board and building a new box when I get home again. I will say this, the bass sounds awesome on my Rock and Classic Rock songs, some country songs, and horrible on all Rap songs except old school rap that has harder hitting bass. But the low bass frequencies sound horrible. It still may be my box since I had excellent bass when I had the 2 CVR 10's. Another x-factor could be my amp rack either distorting the sound or not allowing the subwoofer to "breathe" I really hate to think of getting rid of my amp rack however. So I think what I may do is cut a square opening in the middle of the amp rack so the sub can move air better into the cabin of the car. All I know is I had more bass and better sounding bass with 2 10's on a 800 watt amp that was not operating correctly than I do with my current setup. And the main difference is the amp rack. So that will be a project for the next time Im home in just over a week. But for the most part the roll off isnt nearly as bad now. I would definitely reccomend connecting the LOC to the outputs on the factory amp for a sub signal. The summing devices on the market are nice but I have decided that if I spend any more money on the audio in this car it will be for the scosche kit and a touchscreen deck and just get rid of the Shaker 500, problem solved! Sync cant understand me most of the time anyway! LOL Also Im going to install my 4 channel amp and run all 4 channels to the front doors and install a quality set of components in the sub location and get some serious mids and highs to the front doors.

SideWinder

You guys are blinding me with science I'm trying so hard to follow this! Soon as I can figure out how to ask the question Ill be back Very informative read, its been 18 days since the last post, come on guys spill some more knowledge!

RobDis

I know it's been a while since we posted something here. Ive been super busy with work, the kids down for the summer and other family stuff. But the kids went back to their mom's last time I was home and I have been at work for the last 7 days and still have 2 more to go. But I can see the end coming very soon! On my trip up to Illinois to bring the kiddos back to the Ex I stopped at a store selling car audio in Louisville Illinois. They had some stupendous deals. Ended up getting an Alpine Type R 12, Alpine Type R 10, and a Polk Audio 4 channel amplifier. I bought the 10 and the 12 because they were rediculously cheap, I mean like garage sale cheap! Just to give you an idea, my total for both speakers and amp was $165. All still in the boxes! I had 2 Kicker CVR 12's and was approached by a guy just before leaving for Illinois about buying them so I sold them and the box that held them when I still had my F150 for $150. So that pretty much paid for the new stuff. Now I have been learning some stuff about boxes and proper tuning that I'm going to be working on when I get home Wednesday.

I also pulled my amplifier rack in the picture above back out to install my 4 channel amp and cut a square hole in the middle of the amp rack. I was having some compression issues since it more or less creates a barrier in between the trunk and the cabin. Now air and sound can flow more freely between the 2 spaces and won't hold the sub back. I also just purchased a flared port for my custom box I built. With that I will be able to tune my box to my liking and the flared ends will cut down on the "chuffing" noise that the port creates. This is a great site to use for calculating ports.

http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp#por

It has calculators for air space, ports-round, ports-square, and ports-slotted. Or you can go the easy route and buy a box already built. I wanted my box to be molded to fit my trunk and look integrated into the trunk. I succeeded but the sound wasnt very good. But I'm learning and that means I can share the experience and if that helps myself and someone else in the future then it has been worth it. So, more to come later this week, hopefully I can report that i have it all sorted out.

Oh and I think I have the "roll off" issued figured out. The way it works is as you turn the volume up the factory radio slowly starts to cut out the lower frequencies to keep the bass from distorting the highs and mids. So I'm going to amplify all my interior speakers to where I won't turn up the volume as loud on the radio, but my speakers will be louder due to the amplifiers. Based on my tests I have done the roll off is not gradual. It kicks in at a certain point on the volume dial. So, if you make your system louder through amplification at a lower volume on the radio you won't need to go as high with the volume and you never reach the point where the roll off begins. It's just a theory of course. One that will be tested this week. So, more to come on this as well.

eas9898

This is a great thread, but I'm having a bit of trouble following the discussion.

Can someone summarize what the results and 'best practices' ended up being?

For example, in the end, were line-outs available? The best way to handle the bass drop-off (Is a re-Q needed?). To just add a sub and amp for the trunk, what's the best strategy?

Thanks.

RobDis

I can confirm that the Shaker 500 has a high level output (rca). But it does not have the RCA connections. It has a positive and negative wire that would have to be spliced and a female RCA connector soldered to those wires for it to be compatible with a pair of RCA cables. Not something for the faint of heart or just a novice car audio installer to attempt.

The bass roll off occurs on the head unit no matter what, unless your installing a summing device or other unit that restores the bass (Re-q).

As to what works best? Well that question is best answered by the user. For me, I have given up on getting the Shaker system to work. Buying a summing device or sound equalization device to restore the bass is not something I want to do. So as soon as I can afford to I will be purchasing the Metra dash kit and installing an aftermarket DVD/Nav Screen. This is what I really wanted to do from the beginning but was waiting for the Scosche kit to drop, but since it looks like that isn't going to happen in a reasonable amount of time I will be buying the Metra kit and a DVD screen as soon as I can.

The JL Audio Clean Sweep is a good unit if you are dying to keep the stock head unit. Kicker makes one as well called the Kicker ZX10SUM8. MTX makes the RE-q5 that is more affordable than the rest. Audio Control makes one called the LC2I. There are a few others but those are the ones I have found recently. Any one of those will make the head unit better. I would just rather have a touchscreen.