That Bit One is BAAAAAAD! You had me at 1/3 Octave 31 band EQ.

 

have you seen the new 3sixty.3? im gonna have to find an Audison dealer because they have always been a high end SQ company so its worth looking into
your refering to this;
and an active crossover just decides which speakers get which frequencies . so the subs would get (just an example) 100> and the other speakers would get the rest, or separated further

 

To be honest, I really don't care how or why it does so, I just know that is what happens to the rear speakers.

 

its not to my knowledge, thats why i asked. i was hoping to learn something new

 

Where did you mount the Clean Sweep, amp, and remote bass ****?

 

NO!!! You are getting crappy advice from some here. Back in the day all that was available was a generic LOC. Today there are a couple of options out there that help tremendously. If you want to just add a sub in the trunk the easiest/best way to do it while maintaining your stock head unit is to use an Audio Control LC2i. It is an active line output converter that offers roll off canceling, line driving capabilities and also serves as a electronic crossover that functions at 45hz on a 12db slope curve. The LC2i also offers the ability to control your sub remotely. You can pick one up for about $100. Oh yeah, you won't need to seek out a remote turn on source (trigger 5-12volt supply) because the LC2i offers high-input triggered remote turn on to your amps. Trust me on this one... avoid passive LOC and go with the LC2i. Good luck.

 

I used the Audio Control DQL and it is mounted inverted under the back deck. all the wiring to and from is run under the the framing of the back seat and trunk. I built wiring pigtails to and from the DQL using simple speaker wire. The sub amp is mounted in the shaker 1000 location and the 660 is mounted on the back of the passenger rear seat. The sub is mounted in a 1.25 cuft box and is in the same spot the shaker 1000 subs would be. I also added a 1.2 farad cap mounted behind the box. When I did my install I upgraded the "big three" and for those interested, te stock alternator is not under crazy load. The remote **** was wired into the dash located 12volt outlet (cigarette lighter). As I never used it made perfect sense...

 

for just adding a couple subs in the trunk i think that would be perfect

but for what i have in mind im thinking maybe the 3sixty.3 is the way to go.

 

pics?

 

Many, if not most or all, stock systems are designed significantly limit and exponentially diminish frequencies 120 hz and below when increasing volume in order to protect the crappy speakers installed at the factory. This issue and design has flawed OEM integration for years and until very recently there have been little options available for sub integration without sacrificing deep, loud, aggressive bass.

The Audio Control Lc2i is the cheapest and easiest way to solve this problem cheaply and effectively. You can pick one up for about $100 and it does everything you need: active cross over, line driver, roll off cancelling through the Accubass feature, hi powered signal triggered remote turn on, remote bass control, and a high-pass low level output.

 

yes and how do they do that? they have a resistor cap in line or in a crossover. which has a roll-of based on the octave of the roll-off. but that is changed by the volume.

 

If your ? mark at the end of your sentence actually implies a question... then yes, you are right, based on a sloped curve which is exponentially more aggressive the louder the volume becomes, this predetermined and non-adjustable roll-off, which is accomplished via electronic processing, is established by the use of frequency algorithms that start at a 1db/octave slope at 57% power and end at a 6db/octave slope fully accomplishing the roll-off at 78% power. The frequency roll-off in the Shaker 500 system is centered at 80hz. Being the head unit's volume **** is nothing more than a range specified potentiometer, the key element in correcting factory b*** roll-off is the ability to best determine the point the roll-off most significantly impacts the audible value and then increasing your range of potential through an external means.

I am only tring to help some dude that posted asking for some help... I don't want, nor to I need, to argue with people. Have a great one...

 

Im sorry if im coming off as arguing, but im that "dude" who originals asked the question. And I keep asking because I saw the opportunity to learn something new (how the volume modifies the roll of point, and curve of the built in resistors) which I am not aware of. So im sorry if I came off as rude, I just want to learn as much as possible about every aspect of this car before I sink $40K+ into the car only to find out I need to spend even more to get what I originally wanted.

 

No worries at all. I've been guilty of tripping easy in the past and sure enough I re-read the thread and yep... did it again.

I totally agree with your idea of informing yourself before moving forward. Even though I have been building systems for 15 years, I was completely **** when planning and installing my current setup and ya know what??? It worked out perfectly, so stick with it.

Good luck... and if there's anyhting you need there are a few people around this forum that have killer setups and great experience working with systems specifically in Mustangs.

No more of this .

 

Man I'm glad you guys got that taken care of.

The roll off dSINta is referring to is a simple subsonic filter. It doesn't roll off exponentially unless you are considering the logarithmic mean which is e to the x power expressed as a 10log function of decades. The so called effect can be explained by looking at a log graph (bode plot) of a filter, or sub sonic filter (a filter to keep low end out of the speakers or very low fq high pass filter) and realize the increase in gain logarithmically rolls off giving the increase in power a greater roll off (not by filter dB, by power). Say you have have a filter that is 20dB per decade (half the power per every doubling of the frequency depending on what the filter is), this, in a low pass filter will mean that if the center frequency is at 90Hz, at 45Hz the power (gain) will be halved (6dB per octave). This has nothing to do with what you hear, it's just numbers. Technically if given 1w per 1M, this would mean that it would sound 6dB below where it was before, the ear can process increments of 3dB so it would sound 2 times lower. All still in relative terms though. AC is concrete only momentarily on paper and that's about it.

So, since everything is amplified, the roll off effect is now effectively however many times the amplification. So if the amplifier were to boost the gain by 5 times, a dB/octave drop will seemingly appear (sound) 2.5 times as effective. For example, power input to the signal is boosted by 600 watts, after filter the effective power is 300 watts. I don't know that this clears up anything but since signal, amplitude, phase, power, sound pressure are all relative terms, you can't just say, oh, the more the volume goes up, the more the amplifier is suppressed. While it's somewhat and half-assed a true answer, it isn't the correct answer. An understanding of how AC filters and logarithmic scales work is what is needed to understand why the filter acts the way that it does.

I think we should all stray from some of these assumptions and misunderstandings. Most of you are on the right path and good questions and answers are given. Somethings I just can't let go so I'm sorry for my rant. If it isn't known how something works, then it is an assumption, not a fact.

Now play nice.

 

ok... so that went pretty far over my head, but i just have on question. does the decibel per octave exponentially grow when the volume is increased? and if so how does it actually do it? i think i have a very basic understanding of what you are explaining, however how does it physically do it?
thanks man, im glad we cleared that up

 

I wish it were as easy as yes and no. So I will try to do my best. For ease, we will use Gain(dB) and Freq(Hz). Let's forget about dB/Oct. or Decade for a second. Let's say a signal starts out at a gain level of 1dB. Doesn't matter what the signal is, some AC sine wave. If we use a filter, be it active or passive, it really only does one thing, select a frequency to cut off and cuts it.

So, first lets just go with passive filters in mind. The frequency in which you are trying to set the filter it will be considered, the cutoff frequency or half power frequency. Technically it's just the root mean squared or .707 times the gain. This isn't the same as RMS power or anything like that, but sort of.

Anyway, so now we filter at 100Hz, so at 100Hz we should be presented with .707 times our input gain. The filter slopes logarithmically further and further until the gain is diminished. The more orders to your filter, the more accurate and tight that Fc value is. So with our case, we might have at +/- 50 Hz, a value of .86 times our gain input.

So with amplifiers, this filter remains the same, it's just that the effect is larger. So now we will use power terms for instance. If our signal is filtered and we hit our Fc, that -3dB point, that will translate to .707 times the power output. Acting as though power is linear, say an amplifier is spending 300 watts until it gets to the cutoff freq. Now the load is receiving or "seeing" (300x.707= 212.3 watts, an 88 watt diff). Now lets take a smaller amplification, 150 x .707 = 106 watts, a 44 watt diff).

So to answer your question. It is somewhat true to say that as power increases, the cutoff will take a larger percent (of the whole) power delivered, out of the equation. There is a lot more math involved then what I have shown here but as easily as I can present the evidence, this is pretty much what it all spells out.

So as volume increases, the gain levels are raised, then sent through an amplifier, the more the gain increases, the more power the amplifier uses for signal amplification, that signal gets dampened accordingly as given the factors above (and a sh## ton more).

All Ford did was use a very long sloping filter to cut off the damaging frequencies to their speakers. Knowing your product and needing it to last as long as crappy paper thin speakers will last, this is an easy op amp circuit to add in so you keep frequencies out that the speakers can't produce at high volumes.

All of this is just relativity and physics. Non-simple questions can't truly have a simple answer, rather an explanation of the relatives your measuring it by.

 

ok so technically i was right in saying that it does not lower the bass as the volume increases because it stays at a steady .707 times the power output, however i was wrong because since it is .707 times the power output it varies enough that it could be interpreted as doing exactly the opposite of what i said originally because .707 of 1000 is more than .707 of 5 (for example). im i understanding the basics of this correctly?

 

Right, the filter isn't dynamic in regards of what frequency it is set for or how it handles gain. It is what it is. So, I think you are still on track, because it's going to appear less. So it will essentially soften it's effect the lower the volume is. It is just a little tough to quantify these values relative to the listener given we don't know what the parameters are of the filter or amplifier, sound pressure levels from the speakers and so on.

So if it were a high pass filter at 100Hz, at 50Hz the gain should be another half power point and so on and so fourth. You could say that it cuts out low (bass) frequencies, but to say that it cuts out the Bass is wrong. In your head, you see it that way. For me I see it a different way. It all relatively means the same things. I just don't think you can quantify Bass, but you can quantify frequency.

If you have seen a parametric equalizer, you can understand how frequency ranges can be "fattened up". This is just varying how a filter works in a network of other filters consecutively.

 

i think i have the general idea though. mind if i ask what you have in your car?