Myfins1

Originally browsed through the following thread and almost revived it since no activity there in a while: https://themustangsource.com/f803/st...wanted-508004/

I was very interested to read the comments about 1 vs 2 sub setup in an automobile. Interesting facts about the 1 vs 2 sub setup. I am looking to do something similar. I was going to put 2 12" Boston Acoustic G312-44 subs in my 2013. I never really thought why I was going to put 2, it just seems they are in pairs. Maybe that is marketing. I dunno. Now that is something to debate what I want to do.

Onto my purpose of this thread. Does anyone have any suggestions, ideas or experience of converting the entire trunk space into a dedicated sound system setup? I am about to do just that. And I was hoping people here may have some suggestions on what might be best both acoustically and aesthetically.

Equipment going in trunk: 2 G312-44a Boston pro subs for sound and 4 Orion Xxtreme amplifiers. Old school I know. I have An xtreme 1400 for rear subs. 2 275sx for components (1 for front & 1 for rear speakers). And I have an Xtreme 800 for the door subs. The front and rears will be boston acoustic pro 6.5" components. I am going to use boston g108-44 subs in the doors.

I haven't decided but I am leaning toward replacing the stock nav with the Kenwood DNX9990HD with the new maestro adapter that will keep sync and steering wheels controls.

My 13 is a convertible and has no spare tire so the wheel well will be available. It has the Electronics package/navigation & Shaker Pro. Delivery of the beast is soon with ETA of today but no Mustang yet.

Now for the questions:

1. Do I need to do something for electrical. I am thinking a yellow top battery might be in order. Beefed up alternator?
2. For trunk subs: I was going to have fiberglass enclosures built in place for 2 subs. I was going to put it in the corners near tail lights. Is this the best solution for looking the best and positioning?
3. What might the best placement for the amplifiers be. Sizes are 1400: 25" x 10.25"; 800: 18" x 10.25"; 275sx: 11" x 8.5" (ea)
4. Going with fiberglass sub enclosures, would you suggest a fiberglass amp rack or racks?
5. I am having custom painted stripes. I will be having the orion amps heat sinks painted. Any suggestions on whether the fiberglass enclosures and possibly amp racks should be painted as well? The mustang is black and the stripes will be Candy Apple Red with a silver accent on stripes.
6. What would the best use of the spare tire wheel well be? or just seal it up?
7. You call its! Did I miss something? Should I add something?

z06user

One thing you missed, we both will have to wait for some sort of bracket to become available to be able to mount new door speakers as the Shaker door speakers are different for the 2013 model year. I just bought new speakers and can't use them yet until some sort of bracket becomes available, or perhaps if I can find some 05-12 shaker door speaker brackets.

laserred38

Are you installing? Or having the system installed by a shop?

You forgot sound deadener. Google thesounddeadenershowdown and read up on that. Then you need wiring, and you definitely want to upgrade the "Big 3" under the hood. Your stock battery would be okay for a while for that system, but something by Kinetics would help. I don't see you needing an upgraded alternator for this setup.

I participated (kinda) in that 1 sub versus 2 sub debate. For the record, I run 1 12" Hertz HX300 in my Escape, and I listen to all types of music. I ran 2 for a little bit but it was just too much bass for me, and I run 3-way components up front with 160w going to each mid, and 50w going to the 3.5"/1" components on the a-pillars. You don't really need 2 subs unless you want a lot of bass - I just didn't want to get into it with the stupid argument that home audio guy was trying to make.

You don't need rear speakers. Skip them, save the $ to use elsewhere, and unplug/remove the stock ones. This will allow the bass to get into the cabin easier, alleviating some of the pressure that builds up in trunk cars (and makes stuff rattle). For the door speakers, any installer that's worth anything can make you adapters for the factory openings that are different on the 2013s - I use abs plastic for these adapters exclusively now - no more mdf. Just wrap it with the sound deadener and you're good to go.

Lastly, since you already have the OEM nav package, I'd highly recommend not going with an aftermarket dash and head unit. Go with an Audison bit one and tie in to the factory system. It will look cleaner and give you so much more tuning options, not to mention flatten out your stock tuning from the factory head unit. Think of it as a handheld tuner for your audio system.

Myfins1

Sorry for the long delay in responding to this. I am having the system installed. I would like to do it myself, time just won't allow that right now. It just isn't worth me taking time off work to do myself.

I have been researching sound deadener. I did review the site that you linked to and has some great information. I will be coordinating the install of deadening with the stereo install. Good catch!

Thanks for pointing out the big 3. I wasn't familar with that and after researcing, it makes complete sense to make sure these are upgraded. I will have this addressed by my stereo installer as well.

Some great points on 1 vs 2 subs. I will talk this over more with my installer. Still leaning toward putting 2, but I may just save and go with 1. I have enough power to drive 2 easily that is the only reason really. We shall see. I may take your advice on just not putting in rear speakers. This is a 2 way component not 3 way like yours. I will research a little more and decide. Again I already have the amps to do so. Unless I just use 1 amp for L and 1 amp for R with 1 set of components.

I do have to address layout of all the components and using an upgraded battery such as a kinetic. I also have to address an amp rack and if one is needed. I still have unused space in the spare tire wheel well. That may be used for upgraded battery. I want the wires to be very clean and hidden as much as possible. I think some form of amp rack with fiberglass so it can be painted to match. I am thinking of painting the stripes of the car to run into the trunk and over the fiberglass so when trunk is open it looks like non-stop stripes into the trunk and under trunk lid. But that may be over kill.

Lastly, after getting the car and seeing the factory nav/stereo, I love its positioning and the size of the screen. I did some research on the Audison bit one. I am not very confident with that unit and am steering away from it. I am looking at an audio control DQL-8 sound processer. It has auto summing and will take all the audio output from the shaker pro stereo and combine all the signals so I get a clean signal. It handles up to 400w input which I am not sure is enough from the stereo. It then gives you 4 pairs of outputs. I will need 4 pairs for all 4 amps. However I also considered audio control LC8i or LC6i. Decisions Decisions. Obviously with factory radio I need a quality LOC.

Thanks for all of the input.

2012WhiteGT

Go with the DQL-8. You'll never get it tuned to sound correctly with the LC- modules. You can get a remote control for the DQL-8 that will allow you to fiddle with it from inside the car, too. I'm going to put mine in the center console and just leave enough cable to hold it in my hand. The 400W is more than enough. The shaker500 only has about 25 watts a channel on the fronts, maybe 15 on the rear, and I think around 25-40 on the subs. The DQL-8 will handle 400W RMS. The "500" is a peak power figure.

Myfins1

Thanks for the input. I found a good deal for the DQL-8 on craigslist. So I think I will jump on it. I will look into the digital dash control handheld unit. I too will put it in my center console for use as needed.

I can't wait to get the install rolling. Going to ask my installer to take a bunch of pictures of everything in progress. Excited to get all this work done!

laserred38

Glad I could help. I just suggested the bit one because it was the best out there when I stopped working at the shop I was at. I've heard good things about the JBL MS-8 as well. Good luck and please have the installer chronicle everything! I'm living vicariously through you, as this was my plan 2 years ago when I was in the market for a new Mustang.

Btw, even though your components are 2-way, you're essentially still running a 3-way front stage with the door subs. With the controller, you will not need to use the passive crossovers that come with your component speakers, as each tweeter/mid/door sub will be able to be tuned individually - what we call active crossovers. You will be able to change the crossover point and slope of the roll off of each speaker. Say something like this tweeter plays 3200hz and up, mid is bandpassed from 63hz - 3200hz, door subs play 63z and down. That's just a rough estimation, as each set of speakers will respond differently in every car, but it's a good starting point for most speakers in most cars.

In my Escape, I have the 3.5" and 1" midrange/tweeter combo on my A-pillars so my stage is very high. I'm using the passive crossover on just those, because I don't have an external processor yet - my old Alpine CDA-9835 has active crossovers built in, but only 6 channels, not 8. So the A-pillars are playing from 250hz up as far as my radio and amp know, but I'm letting the passive crossover do its thing to separate the 1" tweeter from playing too low, and 3.5" midrange from playing too high. My 6.5" mids in the doors are playing 250-63hz and my sub I actually have 80hz and down - it blended with my mids better this way.

Now the slope is how each speaker rolls off - you don't want to hear individual speakers, you want to hear music, so you'll have to play with the slope to get each speaker to blend its sound into the next one down on the spectrum. The steeper the slope, the more abrupt the speaker stops playing anything below the crossover point. Example, you cut the tweeter off at 3200hz with a 24db/oct slope and it pretty much stops RIGHT at 3200hz. Typically this is undesirable as it leaves a "hole" in the audio spectrum. Start out with a 12db/oct slope down on the tweeter, and 12db/oct slope on up with the mid. The shop should be able to tune all of this for you, so you don't have to worry about it.

What shop are you going to?

laserred38

I would keep your factory battery and add a second battery in the spare tire well, with the processor there too. Then you can cover it up so it's out of sight.

I'd suggest this - get the JL Stealthbox or have something similar built for the right hand corner of the trunk, and have the amp rack built and flushed in to the left corner of the trunk. This will allow you to keep some cargo space, access to the fold down seats, and it will look really clean/balanced (not to mention help weight distribution). You could have the panels wrapped in vinyl or leather with white stitching to match your interior. It sounds like you want to go with a flashier install, and that's all good - your choice. I just tend to do my installs so that they could almost pass for factory. I like the understated. But definitely up to you. Fiberglass gets expensive and heavy - and it takes a lot of skill to get it smooth enough for painting. Just my $0.02...

Myfins1

Some great information. I am not stuck on fiberglass. I also do like to stick with a stock look. I have been leaning more toward carpeting to match the trunk interior and not go with anything too flashy.

Thisi s a convertible so there is no fold down seats. I like the idea of the spare tire well for the processor and the extra battery setup so it is out of site. 2 things that really don't need to be hanging out in plane sight.

Cargo space to me is not needed but you never know. I do have an infant in a car seat at the moment and hopefully a few more kiddos to come in the coming months/years. This mustang is not a daily driver or the family car. It is purely for fun and mostly my pleasure. The wifey still needs to learn how to drive a stick and she wants to. We have a daily commuter in a 2010 Camry hybrid for work (100 miles round trip) and a 2008 Jeep Commander with 3rd row seats and DVD entertainment for the family vehicle.

I am hoping the installer will give some great suggestions on how we layout the euipment. I will post after that meeting tuesday for more input.

Additionally, any suggestions on wiring and wiring kits? I originally bought some of these old school amps in 2006 when I was going to put in my 06 mustang. Well it never happened. I was much more broke and on a much tighter budget in those days. I ordered wiring kits and new RCA's and pretty heavy speaker wire with oxygen free clear coated. All of this was off eBay for rather cheap. Including a distribution power block with LED readout. I want to say 0 guage power cable.

My question is, this is a pretty nice setup with great brand name amps and boston pro speakers all around. These amps as you know are truly under rated. How important is the wiring and distribution equipment. I know it is an important element. I always feel that the monster cables and alleged high quality cables are over hyped and priced. Of course using the appropiate guage speaker wires and power/grounding cables is important. Do I need to address this with newer higher quality ones? Or do you think the 6 year old products should be sufficient? They are still in the packaging in a box stashed in my garage.

I cringe at the thought of letting the shop sell me their over priced choices. I want to pay a reasonable cost on cables/distribution supplies but don't want to suffer in the performance. I would like to supply them most of what is needed and if they need to add additional items here and there I will be fine with that.

What Shop? I have a shop around me here in Fort Worth, TX that comes well recommended.. Lone Star Auto Sound. I plan to use him. He has been doing this for 20+ years.

Myfins1

Also. wanted to inquire more about using the processor to create a 3 way system upfront. I understand that I would eliminate the boston crossover and use the processor instead and tune it appropriately. My question is how would amplification work?

I was planning on using 275sx to power 1 set of front Boston components which is 2 channels. L & R for the front which would be run to the boston crossover which divies that power between the mid and the tweeter. How would you amplify the mid and tweet if separated and tuned with the processor? I understand I could use the xtreme 800 to run the 8" door subs. And how much power alone could go to the tweets? Would I need another dedicated sub just for the tweets?

laserred38

I hadn't looked at your amps since your first posted. Let me do more research. You may need another amp though. I like to keep things the same, so I'd track down another amp from the same line. Your wiring should be fine. I used to use KnuKonceptz because it was a good value for what you get, but honestly in my Escape I have all Audison cables because that's what the shop features now. Bi-amping may be possible, I know Boston used to make bi-amp components back in the day.

One thing to prepare you though - installers HATE when people bring in their own gear to have them install it. I understand from a consumer standpoint, that saving money is key when spending it on these luxuries. I was that guy - I ended up working at the shop that I had my first real "system" installed in my SN95. So I understand it from a business standpoint too - you don't know the condition of the customer's gear - what if it's DOA and you don't find out until it's installed? What if it's in working order, then fails after 3 months? He can't warranty it because it's not his item.

Just be aware of that going into it. Unless the installer is a good friend, this will be a concern of it. As long as you go into it with this notion and bring it up before he does, your relationship with the shop will be smoother than if you go in blind.

laserred38

Ok just run one of your 275sx on the tweeter, one on the mids, your 800 on the door subs and 1400 on the rear sub(s). You'll be good to go!

Myfins1

Can tweeters alone handle the power coming from the 275sx? Some more great information and thoughts. I am going into it with eyes wide open. You make some valid points. And I also want to make sure my installer is fairly compensated for the install itself. I am not trying to cheap out on that. Back when I purchased everything, I was going to do the work all myself. And I have everything except the 12" subs which I will be ordering. I may need some additional RCA cables and wiring.

Fast forward to today, and time is just not my friend. I now have a 5 month old child. And my wife and I both work 11 hour days + 2 hours of round trip driving. And we do this 6-7 days a week. 6 days one week, 7 days the next. So time is not my friend, so its just better I hire someone to do the install.

Back to the amps. If I wire the 275sx with one on the mids and one on the tweeters, I will need another 275sx to use for the rear components. I believe you suggested not even worry about using rear speakers. I already have a pair of boston acoustic 6.5" pro60se for the rears. Addind a 5th amp really wouldn't be ideal with the DQL-8 as it only has 8 pre-outs. And those would all be used for 1 pair: Rear Subs; 1 pair: Door subs; 1 pair: tweets; 1 pair: mids.

Do you suggest I would be better off selling the extra set of components and just not using them? Or might I use 1 pair of outputs for both the rear and door subs? I would assume using the front door subs as part of the 3-way setup, that it may have different cutoffs then the rear subs.

Thanks again for all of your information. It has been very helpful and informative. I would say that I am pretty experienced with the equipment I will be using but a signal processor/LOC is new for me. As well as taking away the default component crossovers. So I am learning as we go here. Of course as you stated, my installer will be able to fine tune these for me.

laserred38

I was worried the first time I went "active". I've still never smoked a tweeter (knock on wood) and I've only blown one sub - mainly because it was a cheap Infinity that I was borrowing and my Audison amp put out 1100w @ 2ohm and the sub was in a box that was too small for it (truck, under the seat box). There was no way that sub could've handled that much power for a long period of time, but I knew that going in So as long as you are conservative with the gains, your tweeters will be fine off any amp - just because your amp puts out X watts, doesn't mean you need to use it all - like just because you have 420hp on tap, doesn't mean you're going to use them all on the street.

I'm glad I've been able to help. Usually with these audio threads I keep out of them because 1) people think they know it all and don't want to listen, 2) they're too cheap to do it right. You were off to a really good start with some really good equipment, and anyone looking to do this kind of surgery on a brand new vehicle clearly has to have a plan laid out.

Congrats on the new baby! You guys sound like workaholics though! I work 11 hour days myself, but I do have my weekends off now, which is nice. I enjoy doing the installing stuff, but after years of doing it and helping friends on the side, I'm kinda over it lol. I'd rather take it to the shop, support my old boss, then tune it with him. Look up the shop if you're bored - Sound Innovations in Hayward, CA. I've worked on tons of cars and my first day I was cutting up interior panels on a $150k 1/500 in the world Mercedes CLK63 Black Series, owned by Monster Cable - the shop does all his cars. I felt pretty guilty putting a $30k system in that "track car" but it was amazing in the end.

I would just sell the extra set of speakers. It will help offset the cost of your deadener/wiring that you need. You COULD run them, and just run them off the head unit, or just keep the stock units in and run them off the head unit, but trust me once you have a lot of power going to a good 3-way front stage, you won't even hear the rears anymore - and it's not like your 5-month old needs to hear music in the backseat haha! Being a vert, I don't know if those side panels are linked to the trunk, so I don't know if taking the speakers out with let bass in from the trunk, but it's worth the try. Trunk cars, especially convertibles with seats that don't fold down, are hard to get bass through. That has me rethinking if you should get 2 subs. If you can pipe in some of the sound from the trunk through those speaker openings, you'll be fine with one sub. Good luck! I'm subscribed so I'll check in if you have any more ?s or you can PM me.

laserred38

I was just thinking too, that since you have 4 amps, a false floor with the tops of the amps flushed in (so they're all the same height) would look really nice. So have all the amps in a vertical flat row (when looking in the trunk). Then you could do 2 subs, one in each corner. I would cover all the panels with vinyl or leather that matches the interior, and have it stitched with white stitching. Then maybe a candy red ring around the subs and paint the heatsinks on the amps candy red. I'd only do the red in the trunk if you plan on tying in the red in the rest of the interior, just to keep everything aligned.

Another thought (but pricey) is have all the panels covered in alcantara - I'd then get the Boss/GT500 steering wheel and GT500 shift boot and e-brake boot. Have a nice suede theme going on!

Myfins1

Okay, so I finally met with my installer. After talking with him, I prefer to go ahead and use rear components. I am going to use boston pro50se 5.25" components. I am still interested in going with the 3-way sound stage you have described. I have ordered the audiocontrol DQL-8 as well as the DDC Digital Dash Control remote for it. It is wired and I will run it into my center console. This will allow me to fine tune the DQL-8.

I have decided to relocate the mirror switch by the drivers sideview mirror. We are going to put the tweeters into the moulding where the mirror switch is. I am going to see if I can have a custom one made for the passenger side that will have the bump out angled like the driver side.

How might I best setup the DQL-8 since it only has 4 pair of outputs to go to 4 amps/speaker pairs? Is it still possible to eliminate the boston pro60se crossovers to go to an active 3-way front sound stage? We will have rear subs, rear components, and for the front sound stage 8" door subs, 6.25" midbass, & 1" tweeters. I can get an xtreme 600 amp which would be4 channels which would be used in place of one of the 275sx. It is basically a 75 watt x 4 channel. I could use it for the front mids and tweets. I just don't know I could create the active stage I am seeking if I only have 8 channels. I may need 10 channels to accomplish that. I didn't know if I might be able to share a channel with rear subs and front subs. And maybe send the shared sub signal to a 4 channel crossover of sorts. Or is this complicating the ability to tune it. Audiocontrol also has the DQXS and it can be controlled by the DDC as well. Though I don't think I can chain the DDC to both.

Your thoughts on this?

I am getting closer. I received my boston 12" G3's today. I am still waiting for my audiocontrol components, the 8" door subs which I need to order from a different spot (ebay purchase gone south), and my boston pro50se. And possibly a new amp depending on if those rear components make it in.

Myfins1

I was also going to ask about the secondary battery. I think you stated a kinetik battery. I have seen several sizes. How do I calculate the approriate size for my setup? How do they compare in performance and value to yellow top? I am trying to do what is right for this system as well as keep costs down. A quick look at pricing doesn't seem to be too different. Of course I need to get the correct size.

Again thanks for all of your input. I really appreciate the knowledge you are sharing with me and the community.

laserred38

I ran optima before and the thing is they don't last long. I've been out of the game for a while so I don't remember all the kinetic sizes off the top of my head.

A few concerns though, I don't like a few of the things your installer is suggesting. The rear components is kinda a personal preference thing, and if you're not competing with the car (which you're not), having them isn't going to be a big deal. But, a big reason of not running rear speakers is if you are at a concert, the music doesn't come from behind you - it comes from in front of you. Some people like to feel like they are in a club though, and that's fine - run the rear speakers. But see you run into the tuning issues and too many channels for your processor etc.

Like I said, you can run the rear speakers off the stock head unit and not worry about amping them. Would be a lot easier.

Another thing I don't like is the tweeter placement. I'm going to take a look inside an S197 this weekend to remind myself where I wanted to do speakers, but putting the tweeters in the door is going to make the image much harder to center, but if you have everything on the same plane, it is easier to tune as far as the eq goes.

It comes down to your goals with the system, and I sometimes forget that not everyone is going for an all out competition SQ build. I want my sound stage to be across my dash so I can pinpoint each instrument and singer as if I was at the concert live - you might just want your music loud and clear and not care if you can hear where it's coming from, i.e. "hear the speakers" vs hearing the music.

Btw, will all your music be from an iPod/lossless files/CD/etc? Where are you sourcing your music?

Moustang

Don't know what concerts you've been going to, but rock, pop, hip hop, and even country have been using 4 channel sound in recordings and on stage concerts since the early 1970s. Pink Floyd was one of the main pioneers, recording and performing Dark Side of the Moon in 4 channel surround sound way back in 1972.


Most modern music is designed around surround sound systems. By disabling the rear speakers you are completely removing part of the music.

laserred38

I go to a lot of smaller shows, not big name concerts. And if you want to go by that, then almost all music except for DVD-A is recorded in 2ch. It may initially be recorded with multiple channels, but typically they get summed into Left and Right.