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Newman in Chase-MWR Hammered With Record Penalties

Old 9/20/13, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Zastava_101 View Post
According to Jayski, 5-Hour Energy has not decided yet if they will stay with the team in 2014.
Hence my "yet" comment.
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Old 9/20/13, 12:34 PM
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On the other hand, this is not the first time that Waltrip has been caught in scandals. Anyone remembers few years ago (when they switched to Toyota) that they tried to use some type of funny fuel for Daytona 500?
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Old 9/20/13, 02:47 PM
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They all cheat. It's just a matter of who gets caught or not.
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Old 9/21/13, 08:11 AM
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and who gives nascar enough to allow them to cheat.
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Old 9/21/13, 10:09 AM
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Holy **** the black helicopters really circle in this place.

NASCAR doesn't care who wins. They have lots to lose if the series is found to be fraudulently run. All of the phantom caution accusations and Hendrick hating conspiracies are borne from ignorance or jealousy.

There's a reason why Kurt Busch making the chase for a single car Furniture Row racing team is such a big deal. In all forms of racing, money is a great advantage and Hendrick has the most resources of all teams.

There's no NASCAR Hendrick under the table deal. It's simple racing economics.

I used to be an MWR fan, but Michael underestimated the backlash from the race fixing accusations and Truex and his team are paying the price. A contrite statement like he released after NAPA bolted would have gone a long way to keep them instead of his "aw shucks" denial earlier.
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Old 9/21/13, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ethanjbeau View Post
They all cheat. It's just a matter of who gets caught or not.
Agree 1000%. Even The King admits to cheating!
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Old 9/21/13, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PonyOx View Post
Holy **** the black helicopters really circle in this place.

NASCAR doesn't care who wins. They have lots to lose if the series is found to be fraudulently run. All of the phantom caution accusations and Hendrick hating conspiracies are borne from ignorance or jealousy.

There's a reason why Kurt Busch making the chase for a single car Furniture Row racing team is such a big deal. In all forms of racing, money is a great advantage and Hendrick has the most resources of all teams.

There's no NASCAR Hendrick under the table deal. It's simple racing economics.

I used to be an MWR fan, but Michael underestimated the backlash from the race fixing accusations and Truex and his team are paying the price. A contrite statement like he released after NAPA bolted would have gone a long way to keep them instead of his "aw shucks" denial earlier.
If the situation was reversed; meaning that Hendrick "cheated" and one of Waltrip's driver missed the Chase because of that, would NASCAR still make same calls? I don't think so.
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Old 9/21/13, 09:03 PM
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They win because they're good at what they do. Do they cheat? Sometimes they might. But I would bet many teams do too.

Often the ones with the most money do the best.
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Old 9/22/13, 02:03 AM
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To the posts above, yes, I think the fix is in. I didn't want to think it was, been following it for 20 years. But lately I do think the fix is in. NASCAR loves Chevy and Toyota, they get the big bucks from them (and the Govt. now, yes it has gotten political). At this point they might as well drop all the other names and just call it the Chevrolet racing series, Starring Jimmie Johnson, a 5 hour broadcast dedicated to his excellence. Its sickening to watch anymore, they can no longer call him "the 48" or "Jimmie" or the Lowes car, they sound as if the announcers are being forced to refer to him as "5 time"
or "5 time NASCAR Sprint Cup champion Jimmie Johnson ", I've even heard the announcers bemoaning the fact that he hasn't won a championship in 2 years. Oh my God what can we do to make shure he wins it this year!?!?
These people remind me of MSNBC talking about the president, practically wetting themselves when he is mentioned. Its sickening to watch at this point, probably one of the reasons the stands are half empty.

Hell, there will be some great racing going on up front, and the coverage will have the cameras focused on his car in 23rd place and the announcers lavishing him with praise. I'm really sick of it.
I miss the good ol' days when Dale Sr. was banging doors with Bill Elliot in cars that actually looked like cars that you could buy.

And the drivers of those cars were animated and passionate when interviewed, not robots like JJ that has the charisma of a thanksgiving turkey repeating names of sponsors.
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Old 9/23/13, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Zastava_101 View Post

If the situation was reversed; meaning that Hendrick "cheated" and one of Waltrip's driver missed the Chase because of that, would NASCAR still make same calls? I don't think so.
This is a false choice as all we know is what has happened so we dealing in what if scenarios is just conjecture.

With that said and the negative reaction of fans toward the MWR actions, I doubt that actions from NASCAR would have been different.

Hendrick teams have been penalized in the past by NASCAR for infractions and appeals have been denied by them as well. These are just misdirections put in by the France cabal to throw everyone off of the bigger fix that is in, I suppose.

One can't reason with conspiracy theorists otherwise once they have convinced themselves that they are correct.

For the foil hatted here, I have a question:

Faced with dwindling attendance and an unhappy fan base, what exactly does NASCAR gain from this alleged propping up of Chevy in general and Hendrick in particular? Also, if they have such control over the sport, why would they select the 48 to be the 5 time trumped up champion instead of the 88? Surely appeasing the fans of the most popular driver of his generation would generate rivers of cash for the NASCAR/GM/Hendrick trio, no?
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Old 9/23/13, 03:35 PM
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The only way Junior could win a championship is if NASCAR disqualifies the Top 15 drivers or so. He's the most overrated driver in a long time. He won only 2 races over the past 6 seasons. No matter what NASCAR does he's not gonna win the championship.

Maybe you can explain it to me why NASCAR changed Chase rules as soon as Gordon and Earnhardt Jr. missed the Chase; yet, they did nothing at all when Biffle and Edwards (who finished 2nd and 3rd the year before) missed it. Or maybe why they made Roush close one of their teams when all 5 of them made the Chase, but they did nothing the following year when 9 out of 12 Chase cars were Chevys.

You said it yourself - NASCAR is faced with dwindling attendance and an unhappy fan base. Why do you think that is?
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Old 9/23/13, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Zastava_101 View Post
The only way Junior could win a championship is if NASCAR disqualifies the Top 15 drivers or so. He's the most overrated driver in a long time. He won only 2 races over the past 6 seasons. No matter what NASCAR does he's not gonna win the championship.

Maybe you can explain it to me why NASCAR changed Chase rules as soon as Gordon and Earnhardt Jr. missed the Chase; yet, they did nothing at all when Biffle and Edwards (who finished 2nd and 3rd the year before) missed it. Or maybe why they made Roush close one of their teams when all 5 of them made the Chase, but they did nothing the following year when 9 out of 12 Chase cars were Chevys.

You said it yourself - NASCAR is faced with dwindling attendance and an unhappy fan base. Why do you think that is?

Although you didn't bother to answer any of my questions, I'll take a moment to answer yours.

Why is attendance dwindling?

1) They overpolished the product while trying to expand to new markets. This has left their core fans in the traditional South feeling alienated. Expanding to the midwest and other non-core markets brought in new fans, but at the expense of "tradition" and with a net loss in fans.

2) The economy. Disposable income is the first casualty of an economic downturn and the format of NASCAR will suffer exceptionally with this. NBA/NFL/MLB can live on the support of local fans and local facilities but NASCAR is a different paradigm requiring more travel and travel related expenses. Which leads to...

3) We would love to attend more races each year, but are limited to tracks that are within one day out and back distance for a race. Otherwise, we are faced with inflated 3-4 night hotel minimums, buying a camper/trailer and a vehicle to haul it or sleeping in a tent to attend a race. Our one and only Bristol night race was attached to a week long vacation in Tennessee and multiple 180 mile round trips from a ($225.00/night) hotel to the track and back in order to see the cup and Nationwide races.

4) Too many people are attached to the good old days fallacy. They love to ruminate about how great it was when Richard Petty (a true Southerner) dominated the sport or when Dale Sr. did the same, but nostalgia covers the the warts and lack of competition that was rife in NASCAR back then.

5) People get tired of seeing the same guy/team/marque win unless it is their guy/team/marque doing the winning. It's OK when your driver dominates, but when the other driver/team/marque does the same, it's not because they are better, it's because the deck is stacked against you. If the driver of the 48 was Jimmy Johnson from Hickory, NC and not El Cajon, CA the cries of vanilla and boredom would not be as loud.
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Old 9/23/13, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Zastava_101 View Post
The only way Junior could win a championship is if NASCAR disqualifies the Top 15 drivers or so. He's the most overrated driver in a long time. He won only 2 races over the past 6 seasons. No matter what NASCAR does he's not gonna win the championship.

Maybe you can explain it to me why NASCAR changed Chase rules as soon as Gordon and Earnhardt Jr. missed the Chase; yet, they did nothing at all when Biffle and Edwards (who finished 2nd and 3rd the year before) missed it. Or maybe why they made Roush close one of their teams when all 5 of them made the Chase, but they did nothing the following year when 9 out of 12 Chase cars were Chevys.

You said it yourself - NASCAR is faced with dwindling attendance and an unhappy fan base. Why do you think that is?
I've heard the claim that NASCAR changed the rules to expand the chase to allow in certain drivers, but there is no proof that it was the motivation unless they could somehow guarantee that their targeted drivers would finish 11th or 12th in subsequent years in order to take advantage of it. To me, this is more conspiracy BS.

If the goal with the 2007 change was to bring in their favorites, what was the goal of the 2011 change to the current 10+ wild card format? Were their favorites now able to get a to 10 slot or perhaps guaranteed enough wins and a top 20 finish in order to make the chase?
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Old 9/23/13, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PonyOx View Post
For the foil hatted here, I have a question:

Faced with dwindling attendance and an unhappy fan base, what exactly does NASCAR gain from this alleged propping up of Chevy in general and Hendrick in particular? Also, if they have such control over the sport, why would they select the 48 to be the 5 time trumped up champion instead of the 88? Surely appeasing the fans of the most popular driver of his generation would generate rivers of cash for the NASCAR/GM/Hendrick trio, no?
I don't think NASCAR is the WWE or trying to be, I'm sure they don't sit in a dark room smoking cigars and picking winners or anything like that. I DO think they favor the hell out of certain drivers/teams and have generally had a beef against Ford for some time. All major sports have certain biases and troubles with parity, NASCAR's are just currently at an unacceptable level for me. If that makes me a crazy loon I guess I'm a crazy loon.

Last edited by Moosetang; 9/23/13 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 9/24/13, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by PonyOx View Post
Although you didn't bother to answer any of my questions, I'll take a moment to answer yours.

Why is attendance dwindling?

1) They overpolished the product while trying to expand to new markets. This has left their core fans in the traditional South feeling alienated. Expanding to the midwest and other non-core markets brought in new fans, but at the expense of "tradition" and with a net loss in fans.

2) The economy. Disposable income is the first casualty of an economic downturn and the format of NASCAR will suffer exceptionally with this. NBA/NFL/MLB can live on the support of local fans and local facilities but NASCAR is a different paradigm requiring more travel and travel related expenses. Which leads to...

3) We would love to attend more races each year, but are limited to tracks that are within one day out and back distance for a race. Otherwise, we are faced with inflated 3-4 night hotel minimums, buying a camper/trailer and a vehicle to haul it or sleeping in a tent to attend a race. Our one and only Bristol night race was attached to a week long vacation in Tennessee and multiple 180 mile round trips from a ($225.00/night) hotel to the track and back in order to see the cup and Nationwide races.

4) Too many people are attached to the good old days fallacy. They love to ruminate about how great it was when Richard Petty (a true Southerner) dominated the sport or when Dale Sr. did the same, but nostalgia covers the the warts and lack of competition that was rife in NASCAR back then.

5) People get tired of seeing the same guy/team/marque win unless it is their guy/team/marque doing the winning. It's OK when your driver dominates, but when the other driver/team/marque does the same, it's not because they are better, it's because the deck is stacked against you. If the driver of the 48 was Jimmy Johnson from Hickory, NC and not El Cajon, CA the cries of vanilla and boredom would not be as loud.
1. NASCAR did not start to expand to the new markets yesterday. This is something that has been going on for a while. If this was the problem, it would've started back in the mid 1990s, not now.

2. Good point there; although that doesn't explain why TV ratings are down. I can understand why less people to go actual races, but economy has nothing to do why less people are watching races on TV.

3. See #2.

4. See #1. Richard Petty, David Pearson, Cale Yarborough and the rest of the original stars from the 1950s and 1960s retired over 20 years ago. If this was the problem, it would've started back in the mid 1990s, not now. In fact, (and maybe I'm wrong here), but NASCAR saw its biggest growth in the mid-1990s - after Petty, Pearson, Yarborough and the rest of original stars retired.

5. I have no problem with one driver winning many championships. It happened at F1, WRC, WTCC ... and I still watch it. My problem is as I described it before - making changes all the time to benefit big teams while little guys suffer because of that.
You may say that there are no proofs and that it's just a conspiracy BS - guess what? There is no proof that Waltrip did anything wrong at Richmond. I guarantee you that if Johnson did what Bowyer did to allow Gordon to make the Chase, we would not see any penalties at all.

Last edited by Zastava_101; 9/24/13 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 9/24/13, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Moosetang View Post
I DO think they favor the hell out of certain drivers/teams and have generally had a beef against Ford for some time. All major sports have certain biases and troubles with parity, NASCAR's are just currently at an unacceptable level for me.
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Old 9/24/13, 08:37 PM
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Well, after the smoke clears the bottom line is that all of Hendricks cars got into the chase and they had to expand to 13 cars to get it done!! Amazing!!!

I know one thing that the last race of of 2011 was rigged for sure and if anyone cared
to look carefully at the stat's it becomes very apparent! I don't know all the whys
but the sad facts are there. It's hard for me to enjoy any sport when I can see the
playing field is not level. The Richmond call by NASCAR just puts icing on the cake.

NASCAR is beginning to look like pro wrestling.....manipulated outcome!! $$$$
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Old 9/24/13, 08:54 PM
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I was a diehard NASCAR fan when I was only 9 years old and I would root for Bobby Allison and David Pearson! I loved it and wish I could have watched more it wasn't on TV that much. Then I rooted for Davey Allison and Dale Jarrett and STILL was loving it! But now I can hardly stand it! I think my biggest beef is the cars are all watered down now and you can't tell them apart! Ohhhhh they've got stickers now whoopdeddoo! Boring *** racing now bring back the **** stock in stock cars!!!
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Old 9/24/13, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mustang Freak View Post
I was a diehard NASCAR fan when I was only 9 years old and I would root for Bobby Allison and David Pearson! I loved it and wish I could have watched more it wasn't on TV that much. Then I rooted for Davey Allison and Dale Jarrett and STILL was loving it! But now I can hardly stand it! I think my biggest beef is the cars are all watered down now and you can't tell them apart! Ohhhhh they've got stickers now whoopdeddoo! Boring *** racing now bring back the **** stock in stock cars!!!
Wow, we have a lot in common with our racing fanship. I'm not a fair weather fan, I stick with someone when I get to like them. I was a David Pearson fan, then Bill Elliott because he was a good ol' boy from right down the road from me, then Davey Allison, then Dale Jarrett (even stayed a fan when he went away from a Ford) and now a Carl Edwards fan.
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Old 9/24/13, 11:01 PM
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Thanks guys for your thoughts on NASCAR...I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions
on today's NASCAR. It is really a shame that NASCAR has taken this great sport in this direction. I like the fact that the sport is very family friendly and extremely patriotic. BUT.................

This is just another case of leaving the very roots of what "brand racing" is, and the
personal relationship it has with most of us, and evolving it into a similitude or illusion of the real thing.

Last edited by jtb3; 9/26/13 at 07:10 AM.
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