2 Go Snake

It is a good to hear Penske is appealing the case against his team. Hopefully, Logano and Keslowski get their driver points returned. Loss of points should not be used to determine the drivers championship.

Shelby08

I agree! Ford has been completely crucified on the track by NASCAR and it's ridiculous...

I haven't heard Irvan's name in awhile!!! Went out with his daughter a couple times..

Moosetang

NASCAR's lack of transparency on this is just another thing driving me away from their series. How can they not lay out in plain terms what's going on? They just penalized a team severely for parts that violated "the spirit of the rules" but won't say how and what rules? After the 48 team has won multiple championships in years they've been severely penalized for blatantly breaking rules, they're now NASCAR's trusted source for pointing the finger at other teams?

2 Go Snake

I would think Nascar had penalized the Penske teams enough by having them replace their rearends right before the start of the race. That move by Nascar should have created enough disorganization for the Penske teams to ensure they had a bad race. Why were the supposedly illegal rearends not found in prerace inspection ? If the rearends passed prerace inspection, they should have been legal to race.

Zastava_101

Johnson says Hendrick Motorsports didn't 'rat out' Penske Racing: #48-Jimmie Johnson met with members of the media at Kansas Speedway and discussed many things, including the Penske Pentalties, the transcript in part:
Q) DID YOU GUYS TURN IN PENSKE LAST WEEK? I'M ASSUMING YOU HAVE HEARD BRAD'S (KESELOWSKI) COMMENTS AS FAR AS, THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN TARGETED AND UNDER THE MICROSCOPE THE LAST WEEK OR SO. YOU AND CHAD (KNAUS) OBVIOUSLY KNOW HOW THAT FEELS. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHEN YOU DO HAVE SUCCESS HOW MUCH CLOSER NASCAR DOES SCRUTINIZE EVERYTHING THAT YOU GUYS DO:
Johnson: "When you have success on your side the magnifying glass the viewpoint for everybody, NASCAR, other teams, it gets a lot more intense. The best officiating in the garage area has always been your neighbor. That has just been part of NASCAR for years and years. That is why NASCAR has the procedures in place that they do in the garage area and why even in F1 today they are not allowed to cover their stuff anymore. It's just part of it. With all that being said, no, the Hendrick group and the #48 team did not rat out the Penske cars. There are two decisions teams are faced with in the garage area. Everybody has people watching. We have been very impressed with the #2 cars staff and their ability to have somebody just stand and watch other teams."
"So this environment does take place in the garage area. Yeah, there are eyes open, but when a team sees something they have two options. One, they go home and try to adapt it to their car and understand it and see if they can make it work or they go in the truck and say something. We don't say something. We are a company built on performance. We are a company that tries to understand the rulebook as close as we can to the law. Sure, we have had our issues with it, but that is racing it has been that way since day one of racing. We go in there and we try to be as smart as we can and conform to the rules and put the best race car on the track. With all that being said, no, sure there was a lot of activity around the Penske cars during the test day, just like all the other cars and everybody is watching, everybody is looking, but in no way shape or form did anybody from the #48 car walk into that truck and say anything."
Q) WAS THERE ANY PART OF YOU THAT THOUGHT THE PENSKE PENALTY WAS SOMEWHAT JUST IN THE SENSE THAT BRAD KESELOWSKI WAS COMPLAINING OR AT LEAST TALKING ABOUT YOUR REAR END SUSPENSION LAST YEAR?
Johnson: "I've said this before. Brad is a huge talent. But as we all know, Brad will say things. And when you're in the sport long enough, you learn when you need to be careful. And no team is immune to the issues. I don't want the crew chief's job. Those guys live on the ragged edge and they have to. If not, they're going to run 20th every week. So, I think over time, I've learned and have also clearly experienced some issues where man, you just do your thing and there's no need to spout off what other people are up to. I think there have been a few lessons that Brad has learned along the way this year as to when to say something. With all that being said, it doesn't take away from the fact that with the penalties and with what Penske is going through right now, doesn't take away the fact that they are champions and they did an awesome job last year. And I still think Brad is an awesome driver and that team has awesome equipment and we're going to deal with them week-in and week-out. Again, I've lived through it and good teams survive. Good teams and drivers will always survive. But it's going to put a lot of stress in their world the next six, eight, or ten weeks, depending on how long the appeals last and all that. And we'll all see how they respond to it. But once they get some normalcy back in their lives at-track, they're going to be right there at the front of the pack each week like we've seen so far."(Team Chevy)(4-19-2013)

2 Go Snake

Well, some of the Ford drivers qualified well at Kansas. Now we will see if they can lead the race and have a chance to win. The last several races have been painfull to watch for a Ford fan.

Zastava_101

Keselowski says parts were approved: #2-Brad Keselowski says the parts that NASCAR confiscated from his car and Penske Racing teammate #22-Joey Logano's last week at Texas Motor Speedway were approved. NASCAR says the parts from the rear end housing were not approved. That will be at issue when the National Stock Car Racing Commission hears Penske Racing's appeal to the fines, suspensions and point deductions issued on Tuesday. "Obviously, we're in an agree-to-disagree stage between Penske Racing and NASCAR," Keselowski said on Friday at Kansas Speedway. "And, thankfully, there's a third group to settle those disagreements." Keselowski and Logano were docked 25 points each. Their crew chiefs, car chiefs and lead engineers -- as well as Keselowski team manager Travis Geisler -- were suspended for six point races and the All-Star race. Those suspensions won't begin until after the appeal, and then only if they are upheld. No date has been given. But Keselowski believes Penske Racing has a case just as Hendrick Motorsports had one last year when it appealed penalties against Jimmie Johnson's team for an illegal C-post. Most of those penalties were reversed on the second and final level of appeal. "Yeah, there's definitely some similarities," Keselowski said. "I'm not going to say it's an identical situation, but there definitely are some similarities." The difference, according to NASCAR, is it was emphatic no changes could be made to the rear-end housings late last season. That, according to many in the garage, was re-emphasized repeatedly during the offseason.(ESPN)(4-20-2013)

Zastava_101

Penske: team was working in the gray area: Roger Penske maintained Saturday his team was working in a gray area of the rule book when NASCAR confiscated parts from the cars of defending Sprint Cup champion #2-Brad Keselowski and teammate #22-Joey Logano. "I certainly don't think it's cheating," Penske told The Associated Press on Saturday at the IndyCar race in Long Beach. "You are looking at the rules and you are working in a gray area. We all work in the gray areas. We're trying to be as competitive as we can be, we've got very creative minds and it takes a lot of creative minds to be competitive. There are many different areas we are all working on. We just looked at a particular rule that maybe NASCAR has a different view of. Now we'll get a chance to have an unbiased panel look at it."(full story at the Associated Press)(4-21-2013)

2 Go Snake

Nascar should be looking at the Toyota race cars instead of the Penske Fords. It is clear to say the Ford race cars are at a disadvantage to the Toyotas under the current Nascar rules. The Toyotas are now dominate. Several years ago Jack Rousch warned Nascar about the resources Toyota has and how they come into a series and dominate. Rousch was flamed for making his statement, but he has been proven to be correct. The Penske teams are trying to get on a more level playing field and are penalized, go figure.

jacostang

The series even with the new cool cars is broken, badly. The governing body of Nascar are lost. The stands are empty and now they are trying everything, including trucks on the dirt now.. It was pathetic here in Phoenix. Now with this.. Its very hard to be a fan and watch knowing what they are doing...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nascars...7--nascar.html

Moosetang

I'm sorry but I don't get behind the idea that the sport's problem is that it moved beyond the Southeast. Yes, ISC and the France Family are running things like a terribly incompetent crime family, but expanding was a good idea. Especially with the CART-IRL war that all but destroyed open-wheel racing, someone was going to become the new National racing series and NASCAR was smart in doing it before someone else got there.

The stands were PACKED for years during the expansion boom, the problem is that the ***** running the series are destroying the product not that they grew.

2 Go Snake

I think television and the economy are more the cause of the empty seats than anything else. It is much easier to turn on the television and watch the race than to get time off from work and spend hours on the road traveling to a race. It is a lot cheaper to watch a race on television than to spend a fortune on gas and hotel rooms.
I have gone to Nascar races in the past, but I can no longer justify spending the money to attend the races. I enjoyed going to the races when the Ford drivers had a chance to win. Now, it appears Nascar for whatever reason is afraid to allow the Ford race cars to have a fair chance of winning. So, instead of going to races, I watch the races on television where you actually have a better view of the race. However, I do miss the atmosphere of being at the races. Once, I feel the Ford racers have a consistant chance of winning I may make plans to attend some Nascar races in the future.

Muscle-Car-Memories

Irvan was great!, I remember those battles with Irvan and Earnhardt and the battles with Elliot and Earnhardt. They could have that again but Nascar is owned by GM, thats plain and simple and I personally think that Ford ought to pull out of Nascar.

When I was a kid it was between the Petty's, Pearson's, Yarbourough's but not anymore this brand of racing as they now call it is soooo boring.

jacostang

That pretty much sums it up for me and my family also. Nail hit on the head!

Zastava_101

Penske appeal to be heard UPDATE: Penske Racing's appeal of penalties issued to reigning Sprint Cup champion #2-Brad Keselowski and #22-Joey Logano will be held on May 1 [at 9:00am/et]. The appeal will be heard by three members selected from the National Stock Car Racing Commission. If the panel stands by NASCAR's ruling, Penske Racing has the option to go to the final appeal stage in which chief appellate officer John Middlebrook makes the ruling after hearing from both sides. NASCAR has referred to the confiscated parts as unapproved because they were altered to move in a way that officials have told teams was off limits. Logano said during a Tuesday during a press event promoting the May 18 All-Star race and May 26 Coca-Cola 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway the teams are in the preliminary stages for preparing for what will happen if the suspensions stand. "We need to prepare for the worst and hope for the best,'' he said. "We'll bring in some extra people [at Richmond] to have some overlap on our team to prepare if the appeal doesn't go the way we expect it to. We need to always do that.(ESPN)(4-23-2013)
UPDATE: many reports on Twitter say the penalties against Penske Racing have been upheld by appeals panel. Penske will appeal to highest level, Chief Appellate Officer. John Middlebrook. Penske crew members will be able to work at Talladega pending approval of Middlebrook.(5-1-2013)
UPDATE 2: The National Car Stock Car Racing Appeals Panel upheld the penalties Wednesday to the Penske Racing teams of #2-Brad Keselowski and #22-Joey Logano. Team owner Roger Penske said he would appeal the ruling to National Stock Car Racing Chief Appellate Officer John Middlebrook. "I can't make any comments, it's clear we have a process and I'm better off to wait to see that conclude," Penske said. "All I can say about the process is it's fair and equitable. We had an opportunity to explain our case in detail. We will move onto the next step."
The appeals panel of Pocono Raceway president Brandon Igdalsky, former NASCAR senior vice president Paul Brooks and Bowman-Gray Stadium operator Dale Pinilis took about five hours to hear arguments from both sides and deliberate on the decision. The three-person panel was chosen from a list of 49 eligible members.
"We take our inspection process very seriously," NASCAR spokesman Kerry Tharp said. "We believe we do a strong and credible job with it. The level playing field in the garage we believe is the best it's ever been. As the sanctioning body, we have to uphold the rules and regulations in the rulebook. The inspection process we believe in very strongly." Sprint Cup director John Darby presented NASCAR's side.
Team owner Roger Penske attended the hearing with chief lieutenants Walt Czarnecki (vice president of Penske Corp.) and Tim Cindric (Penske Racing president). Team manager Travis Geisler and crew chiefs Paul Wolfe (Keselowski) and Todd Gordon (Logano) also were present.(USA Today)(5-1-2013)

2 Go Snake

Good deal for Penske to continue the appeal. Middlebrook may be more objective because he is not so close to the officials who felt the Penske teams broke the rearend rules.

Zastava_101

UPDATE 2: On May 7, 2013 the Chief Appellate Officer heard and considered the appeal of the penalties from the #2 and #22 Penske Racing NASCAR Sprint Cup Series teams. These penalties stemmed from pre-race inspection for the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series at Texas Motor Speedway April 13. The penalties concern Sections 12-1: Actions detrimental to stock car racing; 12-4J: Any determination by NASCAR Officials that race equipment used in the event does not conform to the NASCAR rules detailed in Section 20 of the NASCAR rule book, or has not been approved by NASCAR prior to the event; and 20-12: All suspension systems and components must be approved by NASCAR. Prior to being used in competition, all suspension systems and components must be submitted in a completed form/assembly to the office of the NASCAR competition administrator for consideration of approval and approved by NASCAR. Each such part may thereafter be used until NASCAR determines that such part is no longer eligible. All suspension fasteners and mounting hardware must be made of solid magnetic steel. All front end and rear end suspension mounts with mounting hardware assembled must have single round mounting holes that are the correct size for the fastener being used. All front end and rear end suspension mounts and mounting hardware must not allow movement or realignment of any suspension component beyond component normal rotation or suspension travel.
The results of the Chief Appellate Officer hearing were:
- Upholding the fines and points penalties that were originally assessed.
- Reducing the suspensions of the seven team members from six NASCAR Sprint Cup Series championship points events (plus the non-points NASCAR Sprint All-Star Race) to two NASCAR Sprint Cup Series championship points events (plus the non-points NASCAR Sprint All-Star Race).
The seven team members in question will be suspended for the next three upcoming NASCAR Sprint Cup Series race weekends at Darlington Speedway and Charlotte Motor Speedway. They will return for the race weekend at Dover International Speedway. They remain on NASCAR probation until Dec. 31.
"After looking at all the facts and data and interpretations from the rule book, I have decided to uphold the original fines and points penalties," said John Middlebrook, Chief Appellate Officer. "However, I have decided to reduce the suspensions of the seven team members involved from six points races and the all-star race to two points races and the all-star race."(NASCAR)(5-7-2013)

2 Go Snake

The Penske drivers should have been given their points back. The drivers would not most likely have any idea of what was done to the suspension on their race cars. I just do not like to see points races decided by rules violations by pit crews. The penalties were harsh enough without the loss of driver points. Some of these technical violations have no bearing on the outcome of a race. So far, we do not know exactly how the Penske teams modified their suspension components. It would be nice if NASCAR would show how the part in question was modified.

cdynaco

Right. Thus far nascar is being completely shady about the alleged "gray area" infractions. They must work in the Administration.

Zastava_101

Funny thing ... Kenseth's points penalty were reduced today from 50 to 12 ... His crew chief's suspension was also reduced (from 6 to 1) and his win will count towards the Chase.

Maybe Roush and Penske should switch to Chevy or Toyota; that's the only way to get a fair treatment these days in NASCAR.