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Old 4/21/14, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by cntchds View Post
Glad to see a new color on the podium this weekend. Really glad to see him on the steps.
Alonso is the best driver in Formula 1, no doubt about it. He's never been in the best car, yet he still has 2 world championships. For the past 5 years he's had no business winning races and being on the podium so often, but he's always there. Look at how he dominated Massa and now Raikkonen. It's a shame Vettel has 4 titles in a row. Those were all the car. He's a good driver, but nowhere near Alonso or Hamilton's level. Put Alonso in the Red Bull from the past 4 seasons of the Mercedes this year and he would be invincible.
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Old 4/21/14, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mrp5150 View Post
Alonso is the best driver in Formula 1, no doubt about it. He's never been in the best car, yet he still has 2 world championships. For the past 5 years he's had no business winning races and being on the podium so often, but he's always there. Look at how he dominated Massa and now Raikkonen. It's a shame Vettel has 4 titles in a row. Those were all the car. He's a good driver, but nowhere near Alonso or Hamilton's level. Put Alonso in the Red Bull from the past 4 seasons of the Mercedes this year and he would be invincible.
I really don't feel that Vettel is all that great of a driver. As they mentioned yesterday in the telecast, the new cars don't fit him as well because they don't get the power down as well (read: you have to know how to drive it to get the most out of the car). When he had the blown diffusers and all on the last car, he could just mat the throttle and go, now he needs to actually drive it. And his rookie teammate being faster than him shows his real skill.
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Old 4/24/14, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mrp5150 View Post
Alonso is the best driver in Formula 1, no doubt about it. He's never been in the best car, yet he still has 2 world championships. For the past 5 years he's had no business winning races and being on the podium so often, but he's always there. Look at how he dominated Massa and now Raikkonen. It's a shame Vettel has 4 titles in a row. Those were all the car. He's a good driver, but nowhere near Alonso or Hamilton's level. Put Alonso in the Red Bull from the past 4 seasons of the Mercedes this year and he would be invincible.
Alonso definitely seems to push the most out of the car.
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Old 4/24/14, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by StangMahn View Post
I really don't feel that Vettel is all that great of a driver. As they mentioned yesterday in the telecast, the new cars don't fit him as well because they don't get the power down as well (read: you have to know how to drive it to get the most out of the car). When he had the blown diffusers and all on the last car, he could just mat the throttle and go, now he needs to actually drive it. And his rookie teammate being faster than him shows his real skill.


Now that Vettel isn't out front ahead of the pack, it has become obvious that his driving skill is lacking compared to some others.

But he still has the Vettel whine. : pout :
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Old 4/24/14, 08:48 PM
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I think you guys are delusional to think that Vettel isn't a great driver. I am not a fan of his in the least, however, saying that he isn't skilled is not giving the guy the credit he deserves. Webber is not a slouch (look at how well he's doing with Porsche in WEC), and yet Vettel made him look like he didn't know how to drive. The cars are putting power down in a considerably different way than they did when he was very successful, and that does not make him a bad driver- it means that the driving style required doesn't match his.

The truth of the matter is that Red Bull F'ed Vettel's strategy in order to favor Ricciardo's. I don't think that they necessarily "purposefully" boned Vettel, but they didn't do him any favors in China. Australia was the car. Malaysia he was "best of the rest." Bahrain saw the fleet of Mercedes powered cars take over, and he was a few seconds off of Ricciardo.

I believe that Alonso is the best driver out there, but last year there was huge respect for Raikkonen, too. Look where he is in the same car. Is he a bad driver?

Just saying.
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Old 4/24/14, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cntchds View Post
I think you guys are delusional to think that Vettel isn't a great driver. I am not a fan of his in the least, however, saying that he isn't skilled is not giving the guy the credit he deserves. Webber is not a slouch (look at how well he's doing with Porsche in WEC), and yet Vettel made him look like he didn't know how to drive. The cars are putting power down in a considerably different way than they did when he was very successful, and that does not make him a bad driver- it means that the driving style required doesn't match his.

The truth of the matter is that Red Bull F'ed Vettel's strategy in order to favor Ricciardo's. I don't think that they necessarily "purposefully" boned Vettel, but they didn't do him any favors in China. Australia was the car. Malaysia he was "best of the rest." Bahrain saw the fleet of Mercedes powered cars take over, and he was a few seconds off of Ricciardo.

I believe that Alonso is the best driver out there, but last year there was huge respect for Raikkonen, too. Look where he is in the same car. Is he a bad driver?

Just saying.
IDK... I don't mean do dis Vettel but as was noted by the TV Blokes, he doesn't have that power advantage he had last year so now its up to driving skill. Which is ?? Rarely last year (or the last few years) did we actually see him in a head to head curve to curve competition like we've seen other drivers. So we'll see...
I don't know that RB boned him with a lesser car this year. However, Webber definitely did not have the better car last year.
As for Raikkonen, he is a great driver and I enjoy his attitude and confidence. But he also got lucky a few times last year - esp his win. Not so thus far this year as the car is seriously lacking.
But if you take away Grosjean's learning curve/immaturity mistakes, he beat Raikkonen most of the time in qualifying last year and sometimes on the podium. Grosjean often showed more fearless driving than even Raikkonen.

Last edited by cdynaco; 4/24/14 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 4/24/14, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cdynaco View Post
I don't know that RB boned him with a lesser car this year. However, Webber definitely did not have the better car last year.
I think it's pretty silly to assume that they would give either driver a "better" car. They might give some new parts to one driver before the other in practice, but on race day they want both driver's to do their absolute best. There is 0 chance that any team would purposefully give either driver a worse car. The only caveat to that is if they aren't sure a part will work. In that case they may give that part to one driver before the other for testing, but if it works as anticipated qualifying/race day will see both cars running the upgrade.

I was not saying he had been given a worse car. I was saying he was put on a worse strategy than Ricciardo.

Originally Posted by cdynaco View Post
As for Raikkonen, he is a great driver and I enjoy his attitude and confidence. But he also got lucky a few times last year - esp his win. Not so thus far this year as the car is seriously lacking.
He has the same car as Alonso, and if he were a stellar driver I would expect similar results, but he consistently makes mistakes, yet people defend his performances.

Originally Posted by cdynaco View Post
But if you take away Grosjean's learning curve/immaturity mistakes, he beat Raikkonen most of the time in qualifying last year and sometimes on the podium. Grosjean often showed more fearless driving than even Raikkonen.
Grosjean had very, very little to lose last year. I think that the win that Kimi got was deserved, but it had a lot more to do with the Lotus being extremely kind to its tires(ran a pitstop less than anyone else), and we all know that being kind to the tires was the way to win during the first half of last season. Once the compound of tires was changed post Silverstone and Lotus started messing with the wheelbase Kimi was out of his element, and when Kimi announced his departure it looked like development on his car was non-existent while Grosjean was getting a lot of attention (I guess this is a little contradictory to what I said earlier about wanting to get the best out of each car on race day, but when a driver leaves teams have no intention of giving them ideas to bring to a different team).
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Old 4/25/14, 10:09 AM
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The teams are always ALWAYS trying new stuff. RB would give Vettel things they knew would work and make him faster, while leaving the hit or miss stuff to Webber. It's not that they tried to give him a lesser car, but they knew they were in no real jeopardy to not win the constructors championship, so they used Web's car as a test platform.

Alonso is great, but I put Hamilton up for best driver. When it comes down to it, wheel to wheel racing, that's who my money is on. He's got spectacular car control and a Senna-esque means of passing people.
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Old 4/25/14, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by StangMahn View Post
The teams are always ALWAYS trying new stuff. RB would give Vettel things they knew would work and make him faster, while leaving the hit or miss stuff to Webber. It's not that they tried to give him a lesser car, but they knew they were in no real jeopardy to not win the constructors championship, so they used Web's car as a test platform.

Alonso is great, but I put Hamilton up for best driver. When it comes down to it, wheel to wheel racing, that's who my money is on. He's got spectacular car control and a Senna-esque means of passing people.
I feel like we are watching drivers from alternate universes. I would say Hamilton has serious skills, but he can not adapt to a car that doesn't suit his needs. When Alonso has a crap car he beats the hell out of it and gets it nearer the front than his team mate.

Also, I think the idea that Hamilton admired Senna gets twisted into Hamilton is like Senna far too frequently. Senna was an *** who would run you off the track if you were between him and "his" championship. If there was room for one car in a situation it was his car that "deserved" to be there because he believed that God wanted him to win. Hamilton is the opposite of that. He will race hard, but I have never seen him push someone else off the track like Kimi, Maldonado, and Perez like to do. If Eau Rouge had happened with Alonso/Hamilton instead of Webber/Alonso I think they would have given each other the same respect. If Senna was in Alonso's spot either he would have stayed in front or he would have crashed into Webber to keep him from gaining position on him. Same with the three drivers I noted before. Hamilton is much too mature and respectful of a driver to be lumped in with Senna.
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Old 4/25/14, 02:42 PM
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It's funny you mentioned Senna as I remember when his (and Schumacher's) driving style was vilified, but as time passes their greatness has become revered. Make no mistake I love them both, but as you mentioned, they weren't always held in the brightest of light. I think history may look back on Vettel in much the same light.
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Old 5/11/14, 05:23 PM
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Anybody watch the race today? I woke up too late for the start and fell asleep before the race ended (had a late night). Did watch a couple post-race interviews and the Ferrari drivers were both less than impressed with their results. Looks like Vettel must have kicked some tail, though.
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Old 5/11/14, 06:01 PM
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Vettel drove well indeed, but not dominate or anything.

I think I really like the fact that despite the Silver Arrows being faster than everyone else, they're battling against themselves. In years past it was Vettel out front everytime with no competition.
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Old 5/12/14, 05:22 AM
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Good race, and am happy for the Summertime Euro portion of the race calendar. Vettel's 15th to 4th was impressive, in my opinion. Looked very strong . . . until you look at the Merc's lapping the field up to 6th or 7th place.
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Old 5/13/14, 09:21 PM
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Yeah, the Mercs are running away with the show. Pretty wild. I just finished the race, and I'm happy that the someone other than the Mercs got fastest lap.

I hope the rumors are true and Newey heads toward Maranello. I want to see Alonso in a good car.
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Old 5/15/14, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Evil_Capri View Post
Good race, and am happy for the Summertime Euro portion of the race calendar. Vettel's 15th to 4th was impressive, in my opinion. Looked very strong . . . until you look at the Merc's lapping the field up to 6th or 7th place.


Apparently they're getting Vettel's car dialed in.
Not so much for Kimi though it was a bit better this race.
Same for Grosjean - some improvement. But wtf is wrong with Maldonado?

I still don't understand how - with the same advance notice of the rule changes - Mercedes can get the rear down force figured out so well (plus powerplant), and virtually everyone else is just sooo far behind. It makes a person suspicious...
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Old 5/15/14, 08:57 PM
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PS: I was away from F1 for many years... never heard about this $100 million fine for Williams in 07. That is EXTREME!!

How the eff do you possibly pay a $100 million fine and still exist...


EDIT: McLaren not Williams!

Last edited by cdynaco; 5/18/14 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 5/18/14, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cdynaco View Post
PS: I was away from F1 for many years... never heard about this $100 million fine for Williams in 07. That is EXTREME!!

How the eff do you possibly pay a $100 million fine and still exist...
I know McLaren did... I didn't know about Williams, and a quick search didn't get me any results. Link?
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Old 5/18/14, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cntchds View Post
I know McLaren did... I didn't know about Williams, and a quick search didn't get me any results. Link?
Ooops. My Bad!!

It was McLaren. Sorry Williams!!

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6767.html

It just boggles my mind that the fine was so extreme - and paid - and they still exist somehow. F1 teams must be billionaire's now...
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Old 5/18/14, 02:25 PM
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Here is an interesting bit on how Mercedes is doing it.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2014/0/1176.html
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Old 5/18/14, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tukatz View Post
Here is an interesting bit on how Mercedes is doing it.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2014/0/1176.html
CAI adds horsepower!



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