Driver72

Well, it appears:
If you are a drag racer and more concerned about going fast in a straight line get the 2013 GT500
But if you are a track racer or canyon carver, get the Camaro ZL1.

Too bad the 2013 GT500 couldn't have the IRS and Magnetic Ride of the ZL1, then you'd have the best of both worlds and a car that would probably
beat supercars on either track.
That will probably come in the form of the 2015 GT500.

http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...ison-test.html

devious_stang

I dont find this to be a conclusive test

a slalom and skidpad hardly tells the whole story. No surprise the zl1 feels more controlled with the MRC. Most people drive in a straight line...guess which Im getting?

ford20

Yeah because 1 mph in a slalom and .05gs is clearly a winner, not to mention it is 1 review.

The Camaro5 people all gathered in a circle jerk with the ZL1 right now praising the simulations.

kcoTiger

The camaro was always going to have better turn stats. There's a reason everyone has gone with the IRS in their vehicles. This isn't really news. What I consider to be newsworthy are the reviews of the GT500 that have shown it to be a much more manageable car on the track than was expected. That is what will set this car above the zl1, because we already know the Shelby will cruise by the zl1 on the straights.

osso12

thats why I crossed over.. got tired of the c5 Circle Jerks... thanks for the post... Not hateing on the camaro but my thought is this.
Yes, the ZL1 will be awesome on the track... All because of Magnetic Ride only... Both Shelby and boss had launch control like the ZL1 does...
The ZL1 needs to loose some weight before it can really compete imho with the boss and shelby on the street, and its NOT that far away on the track..
I had a ZL1 built and did not take delivery. It has been almost a year since I started planning my dream car. I still do not have my boss yet but could not be any happier on this site, and with the results of the Boss...
and shelby... I can't wait to get my boss...
I think Im going with a winner...

cdynaco

cdynaco

IRS isn't any advantage over SRA on a skidpad.

devious_stang

good choice on the boss. Of course the camaro guys are eating this one test up as the only true source. Thats fine, brand loyalty. most level headed people would expect the MRC on the zl1 to help it be more composed on a track and be better at handling bumps in the street. But like I said a skidpad and slalom does not tell the whole story. a road course test over several tracks ( same day, same driver) will decide which is better. The GT500 beats it in a straight line and overall power and to me thats important. Based on owner reviews it rides really well also.

If I could I would love to own a Boss for track duty and leave the shelby for blasting down the 1320 or highway. Like i said before, I dont see the purpose of GM building a 1LE if they have the zl1....either way a good time to be an auto enthusiast

newpony

I find this hard to believe but I'm eager to hear your explanation.

newpony

Man the weight distribution on the Shelby is 57/43 That is very close to FWD levels.

kcoTiger

It's pretty skewed, but it makes the car's ability to turn better than its predecessors that much more impressive.

bob

Indeed, not that big of a deal - it would have been nice to have a better F/R weight distribution but frankly given the car's mission its not a bad trade off and unless your looking to competitively track the car where polar moment might be a critical attribute its not an issue.

Much truth spoken here.

Driver72

has that ever been tested?
is there even a car made that has both an IRS and a SRA of the exact same car to be put on a skidpad to see if one actually does better than the other?

To me skidpad is kind of a useless test, Motor Trend's Figure 8 test is a far superior test.
Skidpad test should be more of a tire adhesion test anyway IMO.

Driver72

On another note as I'm sure you've all seen, the ZL1 beat out the GT500 in the Car and Driver and Motor Trend comparo now too. So far it's is three for three in the major mag comparo tests against the GT500. Let's see what Road and Track come up with?

Though the GT500 clearly wins the brute force and accelerative categories, seems the ZL1 is the more well rounded car if ultimate acceleration in an "affordable" new is not your priority.

MARZ

This has been posted before, but is germane to this thread, IMO:



Furthermore, professional race car driver Randy Pobst doesn't seem to think the ZL1 is the more well-rounded car. From Motor Trend's video,

"With "a brake upgrade," Pobst states that the GT500 would be the better track car and "probably" a better car on the street, "because the [GT500] is better balanced [than the ZL1]. The Camaro has more understeer through the middle of a corner, and the Mustang really puts the power down. They've got the suspension geometry right in that live axle."

http://youtu.be/FF-db7bX9LI?hd=1&t=11m50s

The ZL1 has been winning these head-to-head comparisons based solely on subjective material. I don't buy for one second that the ZL1's seats are better than the GT500's Recaros, but that's part of the reason Motor Trend chose the ZL1. They also preferred the Camaro because its exhaust note is quieter than the GT500's...

Finally, I'll post this again:

http://youtu.be/mJlsUL55ht0?hd=1&t=30s

As Van of Revan Racing, in his 2013 GT500, blew by Torq Speedlab's Camaro ZL1 like it was sitting still around a road course, being the more well-rounded car -- whether perceived or in actuality -- is of no consolation, in my opinion. The ZL1 had apparently heat soaked very badly, despite being modified with a dual-fan, larger-capacity Afco heat exchanger, among other modifications. The GT500 had an aftermarket tune, but as far as I know, that's it. Its suspension is as delivered from Ford, as is the cooling system.

kcoTiger

Probably unnecessary after the post Marz put up right before this one, but the ZL1 "beat out" the GT500 in personal preference alone. The numbers overwhelmingly point to the GT500 as being the better performer. Objectively speaking, there's nothing subjective about the numbers that have been compiled thus far; in fact, it's somewhat odd that the numbers are considered at all in the reviews you mention, because they clearly point to the GT500 as the winner--which means they weren't considered in the decision to name a winner. I don't care about some writer's opinion on seat comfort/style and exhaust note. I can make those decisions for myself. I don't care how much I like one car over another, it won't change how fast it is from 0-60, in the 1/4, around a track, around a turn, etc. Those numbers make a decision far more objectively than a writer whom makes his decision on personal preference.

Driver72

Interesting graph.
However, to play devil's advocate here, those are paper numbers.
There is much more to a car than strictly the numbers, and that's FEEL.
I've driven slow cars that feel great, handle great and are great fun to drive.
I've also driven more powerful cars that have better numbers but don't inspire the
same confidence and feel and therefore are less enjoyable to drive.
I know we all know this.
Heck a Mazda Miata is one of the funnest cars you can drive. It's slow, and doesn't put down the best numbers on paper, but nobody can deny it's drivability.

So, though I'm a Ford fan and have owned 4 Mustang 5.0's, I understand why some of these testers might have picked the ZL1 if it truly feels better to drive on a race track and inspires more confidence.
As for subjectivity, isn't that what testing is ALL about???
We can all look at the numbers for objectivity, but what people want to know is what each subject who has tested the car FEELS and therefore prefers.

In all fairness, nearly everyone on this site would go into a test with a bias to the GT500 and everyone on the Camaro sites would go into a test with a bias for the ZL1
But it's those who can look PAST their biases and truly point out the pluses and minuses of each, even if it's down to the sound of the engine or exhaust, as to me (and I know many of you) those things ARE important too, otherwise how do you explain so many people putting on aftermarket exhausts on cars to get a better sound?

All in all, I don't doubt the ZL1 is the better car on the race track. It's IRS and it's very advanced MRC system bares that out, they are both way above a SRA and non MRC suspension set up.
Denying that the Camaro has better handling abilities based on the equipment it has, would be like denying the GT500 is the faster car based on the equipment it comes with under the hood when compared to the Camaro.

Today I sat in a Camaro SS for the first time, and subjectively I didn't feel as inspired as I do in the current Mustangs. So regardless, based on my "comfort" and feeling I have more ties to the Mustangs.
You all know the feeling, ever walked into a house and immediately felt "at home" and loved the sense a certain house gives you? Then have you ever walked into another house that might be very nice and have lots of great stuff, furniture, and so forth, but you didn't feel "at home" with it?

I feel and felt more "at home" in a Mustang than the Camaro.
But either way, that does not remove the fact that the ZL1 may be the better car on the race track and more comfortable car on a bumpy street.

SilverSkoundrel

I love that in the last pic the ZL1 won the most popular for delicate vaginas lol

AlsCobra

When the 2013 GT500 was announced with the S/C 5.8L 650hp, the first question that came up from a majority of the people was tire size. A muscle car will only perform as well as the tires let it. There's no magic snowplow splitter or rear diffuser that's gonna keep from smoking those skinny tires with 650hp. If I'm not mistaken, the ZL1 is running 305's rear while the more powerful GT500 is still running 285's. somebody throw some 315's on it and test it again.

Driver72

If I'm not mistaken the current tire size they have is the biggest they can get without fender modifications.
I had those same size on my 2011 5.0 (285's) and I could spin easily with the 5.0 if you get on it too hard.
The answer for them was to just get some super sticky tires.
But that's a band aid fix for a car with that much power.

Ford knew it had to give the GT500 650+ hp to compete against the ZL1. They knew they weren't going to get it to handle like the ZL1 without the IRS and MRC. So they had to one up Chevy somehow, and that somehow was to put a monster power motor in it for bragging rights and get it to go 200 mph, again for bragging rights.
And it worked, it's the power of the GT500 and the 200 mph capability it has (at sea level in cool weather) that many are talking about.
Put a GT500 and a ZL1 in the same parking lot and my guess is most of the people (especially kids) will be talking about the 662 hp of the GT500 and it's ability to go 200 mph, more than the handling ability of the ZL1 in a 4100 lbs car.

I'm pretty sure the 2015 will not only have IRS but also some kind of Magnetic or similar shocks as well, and room for bigger tires.
Then everyone will praise how much better the handling of the new Mustang is.
The fact is, and this is coming from a Ford guy, the people who think just because the GT500 posted similar numbers in handling tests as the ZL1 that the GT500 handles as well, are just biased and aren't accepting the truth.
The ZL1 has posted equal lap times at tracks with 82 less hp AND 250 lbs extra weight.
Take 82 horsepower out of the GT500 and add 250 lbs of weight to the car and see how well it does in the handling tests and on race tracks with its live rear axle and without Magnetic Ride Control.
The ZL1 has a similar power to weight ratio as the 2011/2012 GT500, both post similar drag strip times as well, but the ZL1 will clean the 2011/2012 GT500's clock around a racetrack, because of it's superior handling.

The 2015 GT500 will handle much better than the 2013/2014 does when they put the IRS and some kind of MRC suspension on it.
Then the ZL1 will be in trouble on a race track.
However, chances are, Chevy is working on a 2016 Camaro that will no doubt be lighter, and probably have a newer, smaller, but more powerful engine as well.