very interesting....

 

Camber also looks a bit negative indicating IRS........

 

Looking closely i might have to agree. "INTERESTING"

 

glad it might be getting IRS but i hope its not a epic failure like the IRS on the 03/04 cobra.

 

Guys I wouldn't get your panties up in a furl just yet...I highly doubt (I hope I am wrong) but according to the sources I heard the car will not get an IRS. In fact an IRS probably won't make it into any type of Mustang until the complete redesign scheduled for 2013 or so.

I also doubt it would be as bad as the 99-04 SVT IRS, which was just a bolt on IRS from the TBird. The S197 car was designed from the ground up for the IRS so IF it does come out on the 2010/11 Shelby GT500 it won't be a patch work.

Dave

 

Interesting indeed. Is the GT500, at least, stepping bravely into the 21st century, lead by the Camaro and Challenger?

Another possible clue in the above picture [IRS.jpg], is there a bit of negative camber to the rear wheels on the '10, which would also indicate an IRS?

If Ford does do an actual "Bold Move," well, for Ford at least, and finally release the IRS, I suspect it would be far closer to the excellent Australian Control Blade set up than the cobbled together SN95 piece that so many use to **** the whole concept of an IRS.

 

I hope and wish everyday that Ford will see the light and put an IRS in this car, but form what I am told it's not going to happen until 2013/14.

Dave

 

Not getting an IRS.

 

I vauguely remember something about components being "inspired" by portions of the Tbird IRS, but I do not recall it being a straight bolt-on. I believe it was engineered to fit within the chassis constraints with enough unique parts that was its own entity.

See this article here.

I also thought that the IRS being designed wouldn't support the power output of the 5.4L supercharged engine, and that some of the chassis mounting points were changed to accomodate the redesigned live axle, thus somewhat rendering the S197 less able to support an IRS.

Of course, there are other aftermarket suspension systems out there now to improve the handling.

 

Tony I have seen the units next to each other and they are almost carbon copy of each other. Only the welded subframe that will attach it to the SN 95 chassis was somewhat different. The axle shafts, tie rods and control arms were all from the TBird/MarkVIII chassis.

As far as strength...well there are TT 997's out there that are making in excess of 800rwhp and they are making an IRS work, as well as Vipers, ZO6 Vettes and so on. A properly designed IRS should be able to live under the stress. A lot of the problems with the IRS for the 03-04 SVT's came from using slicks, but there are halfshaft upgrades that have been shown to survive such extreme power levels. The problem I have with the IRS is controlling axle hop. My 997S, my old E46M3 had axle hop if there was insipient slide out of the hole. You could do burnouts, but if you had traction and then lost it the car would axle hop (especially my 997S) pretty violently.

Dave

 

Thanks for the info. I'd love to see photos if you have any!

Agree on the ability of a properly-engineered IRS to withstand higher power outputs! My recollection of postings (somewhere here on these forums perhaps?) was that Ford got part-way through the design cycle, but based on the cost discussions, cut short the engineering work that would have brought the IRS up to strength. From that point, then all of the work was focused on the live-axle redesign, with some changes in mounting points on the chassis.

 

Sorry don't have pics...I knew someone who put a 99 IRS into his 98 Mustang Cobra. He also had a donor TBird IRS, except for the cage they looked identical.

I know money is tight as a frog's anus right now at Ford, but really the flagship performance car Ford needs a proper IRS even if it's just for status. Let alone for performance reasons.

I think they probably have enough data that they could engineer the IRS back into the car, but like you point out..would it be worth it. I feel yes.

Dave

 

I agree, Ford should pull out all the stops on the GT500. Think about it Chevy has the Corvette, Dodge has the Viper... Ford has a suped up Mustang. I think after seeing people pay 25k over sticker for the first GT500s Ford should know that there is a market for a high dollar Mustang. If Ford needs to bump up the MSRP to give the GT500 an IRS so be it!

 

I don't think the market for a high dollar Mustang will still be there. The GT500 is quickly losing its exclusivity with each new one they produce. Ford led the public to believe that these cars were going to be "rare," they aren't really. The bottom has fallen out of the market on slightly used GT500's and that's not a good sign for a more expensive one. I don't think the same people that rushed out to buy the 2007 GT500 will be rushing out to buy the new one. Most GT500's that I've talked to don't like the redesign anyway. Ford should build another high end car if it wants to compete with the Viper that's going away and the Corvette. The Mustang was never meant to do so. They need something in between the Ford GT and the GT500 to do that. Then you can have your IRS and lightweight car, but I don't see the Mustang in any configuration filling that role.

 

There is no reason ford can't add IRS and keep the price the same, did the MSRP change much from the 98-99 Cobra?

 

Normally I would fully agree with you. But you really need a properly designed and robust IRS to cope with 540+ horsepower. Plus owners will mod their cars for more power, so it HAS to be able to withstand certain tolerances.

That will add cost.

 

Very true, and I did look up the price difference and MSRP jumped about $1500 from the 2 years. But i still think that the GT500s price is inflated due to ford marketing knowing they can get that much. There is no reason that the GT500 from the 04 Cobra should have went up by 10k bucks. If they just absorbed the IRS in the over inflation price they could sneak it in at little to nothing increase if they wanted.

 

Keep in mind that $1500 in 99' was more than just an IRS. This was an all new body style with better overall braking and handling and the modest 15HP bump in HP.

I have to agree with you that the GT500 is over priced in comparison to the 04' Cobra. Though it is listed to have over 100HP more than the Cobra it is not much better in overall performance. It sure looks killer though...

 

IMHO, if Ford built a performance model worthy of the price tag I think that they could ask 65k per unit for a top of the line Mustang coupe and easily match worldwide sales of perfromance models like BMW's M3. I've been of this opinion since the S197 first debuted, and I would argue that history as a whole supports me, with both new and old GT500's drawing prcies which are, IMO, well beyond what the capabilties of these cars should demand.

The real irony? I'll argue that there is far more evidence to suggest that Ford could move a meaningful number of 60k+ dollar Mustangs than there exists to support the idea that GM can do the same with the Vette. IMO that is amazing.

 

I agree with the portion of your argument that Ford could build a better - virtually world class - GT500 that would compete favorably with the current M3 for significantly less money. Ford already proved this strategy viable with the GT supercar, which trumped many exotic supercars performance-wise for $100K less.

Clone that formula over to the GT500 and you'd have a winner, IMO.

The 2010 GT500 may already be part way there - it has a much better quality interior, more amenities and technology...all it would need is a well designed IRS, better brakes at all four wheels, and ideally an aluminum block for better weight distribution.