Thats true, everything he touches becomes HIS gold.

Oh, and by the way. Carol Shelby never even affected GT500 development in any meaningful way. He never even touched the car until he SAT IN A FINISHED EXAMPLE.

Believe me, this is a Shelby in name and additional dealer markup only.

 

I understand and without a doubt i'd go w/ shelby didnt mean to rant and rave and as for him not touching the gt500 thats not what the people at Shelby Automotives claim according to their president who posts on their forums often he basically was there through every step and it wasnt just a name tag slap. Also according to them Ford didn't follow several of his suggestions and screwed it up to an extent so whenever the GT500 comes out they will most likely offer a kit to moddify it.

 

IMO, would rather have "Cobra" on this car. I doubt this is relevant, but not everything he touched became gold. you ever wonder if the Dodge products that bore his name are worth big money today? Sure, his fame and his name is commonly linked with Ford/Mustang, but I think his "personal" involvement with the development of this car was less than even the Dodge products back in the '80~'90's. More than anything else, it is the name coupled with his historic association with Mustangs responsible for the (mostly) ridiculous asking prices. I feel the "Shelby" badging would be better suited if the car had a Shelby vin# and manufacturer's tags. however, I shudder at how much more the car would cost!

 

well it won't have shelby manufacturing tags but atleast it will be in the shelby registry to me thats enough but yes do to his name the markup is ridiculous and honestly id never buy one unless it was 500 under MSRP and even then its probly slightly overpriced!

 

Original SVT owner here. I would definately prefer the SVT nameplate if for no other reason than to keep the skunkworks feeling alive. If your work on the most exciting cars at FORD is subsumed and minimalized are you gonna do your best work? Plus I think it would help keep the halo thing(both dealers and customers) polished a bit brighter. And I have really benefited from the relationship with my SVT dealer. They "get it" And they've also got the "performance means certain compromises" thing down. "Warrenty issues? Lets talk." As opposed to "tough, you have a K&N so you must abuse the thing"

 

Which ever car was lower priced.

 

Yeah. I'm sure Shelby knows more about semi-mass producing a 21st century automobile than the SVT squad that has actually actively participated and bettered the sports-car breed in the past decade.

The whole "Shelby drove a car and said the rear was loose so Ford reacted by fitting wider rear tires" story makes me laugh. Is it really that an entire team of crack car enthusiasts didn't notice said "looseness" and needed the insight of a man who tried to sue over a method of striping? Or is the story just a rumor created and perpetuated by someone in marketing. In an interview with some car magazine (I can't remember which, either C&D, R&T, or MT) Shelby himself said he had very limited involvement (read: none) in the development of the car, but rather served as the "inspiration."

I don't know about you, but I don't want to pay big bucks for a car inspired by a geriatric...

I'd rather pay for a car developed by SVT and badged accordingly.

 

This kind of response just leaves me scratching my head. Yeah, he's old, and he's done things with his own name that baffle the mind....but the man drove an Aston Martin at LeMans. Old or not those who act like he is clueless amaze me. Anyone who has driven in the World Sports Car Championship should feel free to disagree.

As for him not being involved with the car directly. I suppose by that standard every Porsche built since Ferd's death is worthless, as are some excellent Ferrari's and the vast majority of really sweet Fords. This kind of thinking is pointless.....so long as the car is an appropriate rendition it deserves to wear the name.

As for SVT verses Shelby....if you like SVT better good for you, in sincerity. This car was obviously inspired by the 68 GT500 and thus, IMO, the moniker fits. I for one don't miss the "Cobra" since, IMO, the Shelby mustangs were the ultimate expression of the American GT....and would appear to be once again.

 

Nowhere in my post did I besmirch the man's accomplishments or his knowledge in his arena.

As a matter of fact, if I wanted first hand information about period Le Mans racing, he would be the first I would call. But, like I said, if I wanted to produce a market viable 21st century car, he wouldn't be on my list of contacts.

Also, Ferdinand and Enzo shouldn't even be compared to Shelby. If Carol established and led his own car company and passed leadership of it through the family, ensuring that the cars never lost the spirit or bloodline of the originals, I would have no objection with seeing his name on the badges. But if he built a couple thousand copies of his tuner versions of Ford products in the late 60s, bounced around with a few other automakers in following years, slapped his name upside the Shelby Omni GLHs, sued Ford for striping some cars, then randomly came back to Ford after forty years (a good decade of which being years of--very public--mutual dislike) and had them put his name on a car developed completely by Ford engineers and resources (thereby inflating the price of an otherwise great car)? Then yeah, I can see why people would have problems with it. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened

You obviously missed my point. I'm not saying the car doesn't deserve to wear the name. I'm saying the name doesn't deserve the car.


An equivalent to today's GT500 would be if: Steve Saleen stopped building his tuner Stangs ten years ago, did some business with other companies, sued Ford, then thirty years later, when Ford designs and builds some high performance Mustang, they badge it as a Saleen just because it has a gaudy body kit (obviously necessary for an appropriate rendition of a Saleen).



Its not that in "SVT vs. Shelby" I would choose SVT for teh win! It's that Shelby is a man; a man who built some cool cars in his day and enjoyed a very successful racing career. Whereas, SVT is (was?) a highly focused group of hard working, dedicated, knowledgeable, and competent 21st century designers and engineers.

Which would you rather have build you a car?

SVT

Whose name should be on the cars badge?

Obviously, the name of those who designed and built it. (In this case, SVT.)

 

Soooooooooooooo...................... I am not the only one who is articulate and attentive to small tinnie winnie details.

 

this is from my 97 SVT owners supplement... "Our Team: DEDICATED ENTHUSIASTS AT FORD WHO DESIGN, BUILD SELL AND SERVICE LIMITED -EDITION, HIGH-PERFORMANCE VEHICLES. FOR US, DRIVING IS A PASSION, SO WE TAKE SPECIAL PRIDE IN OUR WORK.SVT Welcome to the Ford Special Vehicle Team family, and thank you for purchasing the SVT Mustang COBRA. We trust that you will enjoy many years of safe and pleasurable driving in your new Cobra. SVT strives for balance between powertrain and chassis, cornering prowess and long-distance confort- to build cars in which no one system overwhelms or overshadows and other." From the Shelbyautomobiles site http://http://www.shelbyamerican.com/aboutus.asp "you will be able to get a host of authentic performance and accessories from Shelby Automobiles again. We have everything to make your pony run, stop and look like a REAL Shelby:
Shelby is about performance. We offer many performance upgrades including the 350+ horsepower supercharger package for 6-cylinder Mustangs to over 500 at the rear wheels for our V8 supercharger packages; Signature Borla exhaust systems, Shelby branded brake kits and much more. If looking cool is in the cards we offer several different components including our new hoods, fascias and our unique Shelby American Racing wheels. Each component comes with a certificate of authenticity, our way of making sure you know Shelby is behind the products we sell.
We test and abuse every component before it shows up. Located at the phenomenal Las Vegas Speedway we have the advantage of testing the latest components in our back yard. " Draw your own conclusions.

 

A Shelby GT500 or Cobra? I am wondering if anyone has been paying attention for the last several months.

The car they are coming out with is the Shelby Cobra GT500.

Your question shouldn't be Cobra v. Shelby....it should be Shelby and SVT tag v. SVT only tag. They can't make a new, cheaper Cobra when they are already selling a Cobra.

 

You're right. I couldn't have said it better.

Exhibit A: It's called the Ford Shelby GT500.

THERE... IS... NO... COBRA... IN... THE... NAME......................
AT ALL.

 

Great, fast car are...well...great, fast cars. And what made them great fifty years ago still makes them great today. Of course since Shelby, as you yourself said, had little if nothing to do with the cars development then I fail to see the logic in even addressing his capability to develop a 21st century car. As for your questions about marketing a viable 21st century car, are you serious? Assuming you built a worthy car the Shelby name is solid gold despite what your personal feelings my be. And frankly, even those on here who don't like the man or the name are obviously well aware of this.

Quote:

Also, Ferdinand and Enzo shouldn't even be compared to Shelby. If Carol established and led his own car company and passed leadership of it through the family, ensuring that the cars never lost the spirit or bloodline of the originals, I would have no objection with seeing his name on the badges. But if he built a couple thousand copies of his tuner versions of Ford products in the late 60s, bounced around with a few other automakers in following years, slapped his name upside the Shelby Omni GLHs, sued Ford for striping some cars, then randomly came back to Ford after forty years (a good decade of which being years of--very public--mutual dislike) and had them put his name on a car developed completely by Ford engineers and resources (thereby inflating the price of an otherwise great car)? Then yeah, I can see why people would have problems with it. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened

This is contrived at best. Lambo's founder checked out long ago which blows holes through this argument like a torpedo. Enzo would roll over in his grave were he presented with the newest Ferrari's and their awful styling. After all, this is the man who said that aerodynamics were for people who don't know how to build an engine (some say he said a V-12 if I recall) Beauty was absolutely as important to Enzo as was speed and the new Ferraris would no doubt make the man gag. You can't lead a car company from beyond the grave despite your faith in their legacy so, by your logic, Ferrari should simply go away. As for the Shelby name inflating the price of the car, there is absolutely nothing to support this whatsoever other than sheer speculation.

Relative to Ford and Shelby's personal issues, I fail to see what that has to do with the price of tea in China. Bill Ford, as well as Edsel, (perhaps especially Edsel) obviously have an affinity for Shelby and the heritage that goes with it. If they choose to ressurect a proper Shelby Mustang then that would seem to be their prerogative. Unlike what you seem to think they certainly owe the name SVT nothing and run the company as they see fit which would seem appropriate given who they are.

Quote:

You obviously missed my point. I'm not saying the car doesn't deserve to wear the name. I'm saying the name doesn't deserve the car.

You could have saved everyone a lot of trouble by simply saying "I don't like Shelby". Of course, you do understand that not everyone agrees?? Right?

Quote:

An equivalent to today's GT500 would be if: Steve Saleen stopped building his tuner Stangs ten years ago, did some business with other companies, sued Ford, then forty years later, when Ford designs and builds some high performance Mustang in thirty years, they badge it as a Saleen just because it has a gaudy body kit (obviously necessary for an appropriate rendition of a Saleen).

Again, a simple I don' Like shleby would suffice.


Its not that in "SVT vs. Shelby" I would choose SVT for teh win! It's that Shelby is a man; a man who built some cool cars in his day and enjoyed a very successful racing career. Whereas, SVT is (was?) a highly focused group of hard working, dedicated, knowledgeable, and competent 21st century designers and engineers.

Quote:

Which would you rather have build you a car?

SVT

Whose name should be on the cars badge?

Obviously, the name of those who designed and built it. (In this case, SVT.)

So the fact that several SVT cars have been heavily devloped by outside sources (some almost entirely) doesn;t bother you but the Shelby does?

 

Since half of your rebuttals didn't even address my points (like when you brought up the stylistic evolution of Ferrari and ignored the part where Shelby never established an autonomous automotive manufacturer like Ferry and Enzo did. Or the part when you ignore the fact that "Ford and Shelby's personal issues" were not personal at all, but actually business tensions resulting from Shelby's greed--remember, he sued [and, true to justice, lost]. Or the part where you tell me that its Ford's prerogative to badge the GT500 a Shelby, because I was obviously questioning that--oh wait....no I wasn't. Or the part where you say I could have saved everyone a lot of trouble by saying "I don't like Shelby" instead of substantiating and explaining my, obviously correct, opinion. Or the part where you tell me how opinions work and not everyone has the same one because people like you have the right to be wrong [just kidding...], because I didn't realize that and I thought the forum existed so we could all agree together. Or the part where you say that I'm just speculating that the Shelby name is the reason for the $20k dealer markups, just like I would be speculating to predict apocalypse if a meteor were to blow up Earth. Or the part where you mention that SVT started out as a small skunkwerks and wasn't initially capable of ground-up development of their vehicles so they had to outsource some programs until they grew to engineering self-sufficiency.) I'm not going to formulate a reply.



By the way, "you could have saved everyone a lot of trouble by simply saying 'I like Shelby'..."



Oh, I just now realize that you misunderstood my point concerning market viability. I'm not saying the Shelby NAME isn't market viable (I'm not stupid, I realize how many slobbering I-pretend-to-know-who-"Shelby"-is-to-impress-my-girlfriend guys are out there) I'm saying Carrol has no understanding of the subtlties of mass production today and the cost related minutiae that must be accounted for. Neither do I and neither do you, but SVT and Ford do, which is why Ol Shel' wasn't picking seat material or tuning emissions controls on the GT500.

 

If that is the case, then why does SVT have ON THEIR SITE that it is called the SHELBY COBRA GT500?

http://www.svt.ford.com/home.asp

You can watch the intro or you can skip it and look at the name under the picture of the SHELBY COBRA GT500. There is very clearly a "Cobra" in the name of this car. And there always had been.

Perhaps Ford SVT forgot what they are calling their hottest new car, right?

 

You're fighting a losing battle Necromancer. Ford orginally planned for "Cobra" to be in the car's official title but later decided otherwise. Despite the on-the-books name change, enough literature and word of mouth communication spread to establish the car as the "Ford Shelby Cobra GT500."

Plus, even if you were right, why would SVT remember what the car is called? Its not like SVT's name is anywhere in the title.

 

http://www.svt.ford.com/gt500/index.html

I don't see 'Cobra' anywhere here.

 

Its not speculation, its logic. Is Shelby getting paid to have his name on the car? Yes. So it is inflating the price of the car.

 

"THE SNAKE IS BACK" must be a reference to the salesmen then.