Hollywood_North GT

I've already had three - I've moved from relaxation to something else.

AnotherMustangMan

Sleepy?

rrobello

BC I dont know how we ended getting to be so hostile, I enjoy the debates, I wouldve gladly looked up those figures for you and if I was wrong would have gladly admitted it as well, but as of last night when I made that post (3:30 AM) I was tired and had been drinking and didnt feel like it, not trying to make excuses, but in the future I will definately make more of an effort to provide some concrete examples for you instead of conjecture. To clarify my thoughts as to the why I believed the 350Z to have outsold the G35, not only came from their being so many improvements and changes made to the car, nor from the price increases, nor just from the fact that there are specialty versions of it where there have been none so far for the G35, but also like you from speaking to dealers and people in the industry as well as personal observation, I really can't remember the last time I saw a G35 on the road here, I do know when they first came out they were about as common as the 350Z, but at that time even those were a rare sighting, then the 350Z ran a away with the dominance on the roads here. But again I should have more concrete evidence than that and will work on it for the next upcoming debate.

AnotherMustangMan

The Japanese "R35" or Skyline = G35. The R34 was the most recent actual GTR, not even the Japanese have anything newer.

*Edit: ...unless you're talking about the concept of a few years back (which was, after all, just a concept).

Hollywood_North GT

Hostel...?!

You haven't seen me when I'm hostile.



Don't sweat it, it's all good.

Akurei14

Uh you do realize that the skyline is awd and thus has a very hefty curb weight, like Gt500 range right?
Only really fast Skylines have been the GT-R V-Specs etc which have carbon fibre hoods and whatnot. this GT-R is gunna be a really really souped up G35...
Same platform, very similar styling, only difference is that the engine and drivetrain will be diff, likely heavier since the skyline is expected to make 400-500 hp, and the G35 only makes 300. So beef up that tranny, ad a transfer case, front differential, specialized front suspension, larger v6, with single or twin turbos, plus an intercooler.... I dont' see this thing weighing any less than the GT500, or even really providing any kind of competition with that weight...
And remember it's a Nissan, the only people who praise Skylines tend to be the younger crowd who can't afford $75-80K...

rrobello

yes you are very right, but Ive heard that the US version will be a SC V6 not turbod, where as the Japan version will be a TT V8, and this was supposedly because people here in the US that want a skyline want the V6......hmmm, go figure.

rrobello

Oh I in no way meant to intend that anyone was angry, just a bit of an edgy convo, no worries though.

n3cr0mncr

Well put, but you are slightly off base. Most people who buy BMWs buy them not for the improved quality, but for the recognition that they will receive for driving it. Think of it this way....you are a doctor....you can afford a $90,000 car without blinking.....Ford makes a $50,000 car that is just as reliable, but not as fast as BMWs 7XX (keep in mind, i am making this up....e.g. This is only a story, not truth implied)....are you going to buy the $50,000 Ford, or the $89,000 beamer? A large majority of the people in the US would answer "the BMW". Why? Because of the status that is associated with owning a car with the BMW logo on it....and the lack of status associated with the Ford logo. As with anything, there are exceptions.....but people buy cars more for status or for functionality than for any other reasons. You can even see it on this site. Posts from people saying that they have taken delivery of X mustang.....everyone congradulates them like they just won the Daytona 500....all they did was buy a car and everyone wants to be them. It is a status symbol in the group that they associate with. BMW is the status symbol for the more well off groups.....Ford is the status symbol for the group where 1 out of 3 people own a car. Within the Ford lineup there are cars that step out of those bounds (the Mustang....GT....the new Thunderbird....even maybe the F150) but for the most part Ford is giving a car that can be afforded by the group of people willing to pay them for a car.

portside

[quote=427sohc]As I said above...

Even Honda is making 237 hp out approximately 131 cid.

1.8 hp per cubic inch.

On a 4.6 that's 505 hp...and a nice light front end-

No offense intended, but...

Is anyone going to mention the age old truism that small engines will ALWAYS make make more power/liter than big engines, all things being equal? This HP/L comparison is lame, and will always favor the smaller engine. Yamaha R6 engines make 200 HP/L naturally aspirated, and rev to 16,000 RPM. So what? This will always be true of smaller engines when all factors (such as quality of internal parts) are equal. Smaller engines will always rev higher and win the HP/L battle in an apples-apples comparison.

portside

There's a guy in town here with a really quick stock-block Lighning. I need to go stop him shortly and tell him that his pos truck block can't take any power. He needs to know before he continues outrunning so many cars around here.

rrobello

yes but when you have real money, then the BMW is for your kids, the status symbol is the Mercedes, dont ask me why but in the wealthy communities out here you are looked down upon if you only have a BMW....I dont get it but its how it is. So not only am I completely happy with my stangs for what they are and what they can and will be, but in this town I get a lot of looks and recognition when I drive it, because stangs are rarer than BMWs and Mercedes and other high end cars, but especially the GTs and even more so for modded GTs. I like owning and driving the high end luxury cars, they have their place and usefulness, but as those come and go throughout the years, out of all the cars I have and will own, I will always keep my stangs (as long as I can).

Hollywood_North GT

That's not altogether true, either. While I agree that many buy Bimmers as a "status symbol," there are an equal number of people who appreciate driving who buy them for the engineering and superlative driving feel.

First, let's separate the issues of "quality" and "reliability" - cause they're two different animals. While I agree that Ford products are probably generally as reliable as BMWs (with some notable exceptions), and sometimes even more reliable, there is no way Ford quality (as defined by engineering, materials choice and fit & finish) can hold a candle to BMW.

n3cr0mncr

That is the very reason why I said that that example was purely a fabrication. I definitely know that there is a significant difference in the two brands. I was just trying to make that point that.....all things equal....more people would pay the money for a BMW than for a Ford, simply for the status brought on by the name, if they could afford it.

Hollywood_North GT

max2000jp

That makes no sense. The reason why BMW has a name is they build quality products. If Ford built products that were at the same level as BMW, it would also have the status. Ford builds at best average products, hence the position it's marketed.

rrobello

I dont know if the quality of the product really has as much to do with status as does the price tag, if Ford charged as much as BMW then it may have the same status, but if they built better cars and still were cheaper would it still be a status symbol?

Hollywood_North GT

Well that's very hypothetical. Ford couldn't build better cars (equivalent to BMW) without significantly increasing their prices. On the other hand, if they could match Honda and Toyota on ALL quality fronts (which they soon must to survive) they could certainly charge a little more (as much as their Japanese peers, for example), and people would pay it...and they would return to profitability.

Sure, ****** buy Bimmers. Everybody knows that. But these are mutually exclusive points we're discussing here. When it comes to engineering, paint quality, fit, finish, amenities and overall driving feel, BMW has it all over Ford.

And that's just the way it is.

rrobello

yes you are correct and yes it was hypothetical, but my point was simply that quality doesnt equate to status symbol, thus the reason for my hypothetical scenarios. It is simply the fact that some cars are expensive and people know that so when they see someone driving it they assume they have lots of money, this is where the status comes in. It doesnt matter if that car breaks a lot or even if its a real low end line of their cars, people equate BMW with $$$. For those people who dont know jack about cars (and there are a lot of them) they might see a BMW 3 Series and assume the person is rich but in reality it didnt cost them much more than that Nissan or whatever they are driving did. Look at Jags, to most people Jag=rich person (or at least well off), yes they cost a good amount of money so the status is somewhat diserved, but Jags are always breaking, so the status isnt coming from the quality or dependability of the car, just from its price tag.