How Ford could have made 500hp naturally aspirated on the GT500.
TMS West Coast Correspondent
Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by max2000jp
I am sure you are referring to FRPP's crate motors. Both motors aren't EFI and won't pass modern emissions. Both motors are weak compared to the Bow Tie 572's from GMPP.
they are still playing catch up with chevy on the crate motor front
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Originally Posted by rrobello
isnt that what I said?
they are still playing catch up with chevy on the crate motor front
they are still playing catch up with chevy on the crate motor front
TMS West Coast Correspondent
Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by max2000jp
You can add Mopar to the list too in regards to playing catch up. The fact of the matter is that Ford is playing catch up in engine development period. We are being outgunned by DCX and GM in the HP wars.
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Originally Posted by rrobello
no arguement there, Ford is definately behind, but hopefully they will start catching up, the crate motor department is a good start and it will eventually trickle down into their production cars......I HOPE!!!
TMS West Coast Correspondent
Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by max2000jp
The crate motor stuff really bears no significance to Ford's production line up besides the "Cammer" motor. I'd love to see Ford bump the displacement of the Mod motors. Build a 5.0 modular engine to replace the 4.6 and use it in the GT. A improved 4V head with VVT on BOTH the intake/exhaust would be great. Add direct injection and you've got a world class engine with modern technology. I would think that 375 crank hp out of this setup would be easily achievable and the kicker would be that this engine would be efficient and emissions friendly. A 6.0L engine with the same technology to replace the 5.4 pumping out 450ish crank hp would be great. An N/A motor would have shaved 175+ lbs off of the GT500 had Ford chosen that route.
How about taking that 6.0 you were talking about and still adding the blower? HELLZ YA!
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by rrobello
...I disagree, I think they are willing to let quality slide a bit to save some cash and purchase vehicles based on the value of the overall package; cost vs quality.
Originally Posted by rrobello
A perfect example of this (since we are now discussing the GTR) is the 350Z and the G35 when they first came into the US market, the Infiniti offered more luxury, nicer interior, slightly more performance, all around better quality and IMO better looks, but at a higher cost. And even though this wasnt a huge price difference, people were not willing to pay it (for the most part) as they saw they werent getting a good value for the extra money they were spending and not getting the extra quality or performance. As a result the 350Z has completely outsold the G35 and has been the one to get the upgrades and is now the more powerful, better performing car, whereas the G35 stayed the same.
But if you have some North American stats that prove me wrong, I'd love to read them.
FR500 Member
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 3,084
Likes: 0
From: Honolulu
Originally Posted by max2000jp
You can add Mopar to the list too in regards to playing catch up. The fact of the matter is that Ford is playing catch up in engine development period. We are being outgunned by DCX and GM in the HP wars.
And BC, on Oahu the "G" is definitely more numerous than the "Z". I think the buyers here definitely don't mind the price difference. The looks probably play a big part in that too.
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by hi5.0
It seems like its been that way for the longest time. I don't think anyone here doubts Ford's ability to make a high-output NA (V8) motor - only Ford seems to doubt itself (after listening to the beancounters?). Maybe Ford should team up with Yamaha again for a 4.6 "SHO V8" or pirate Volvo's V8...
And BC, on Oahu the "G" is definitely more numerous than the "Z". I think the buyers here definitely don't mind the price difference. The looks probably play a big part in that too.
And BC, on Oahu the "G" is definitely more numerous than the "Z". I think the buyers here definitely don't mind the price difference. The looks probably play a big part in that too.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: May 16, 2004
Posts: 5,206
Likes: 18
From: Bristol, TN
Originally Posted by 427sohc
Porsche on their GT3 makes 415 hp out of 3.6L (220 cid). That's 1.9hp per cubic inch and it didn't mention direct injection
You have to wonder what the total technology picture is for the GT3 motor and how mcuh did it cost to implement?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Robello’s posts singing the praises of foreign cars..(when it makes him look good.)
Originally posted by rrobello@January 14, 2005, 2:59 AM
Yeah you read that right, spanked a hundred thousand dollar car. I was on the way home from work and pulled up to a light and looked over at this new silver 745, was scoping the car and then noticed the hot blonde driving it and scoped her. Light changed and I pulled away, stop at next light same thing checking her out and the car and she looks over, light changes and I pull away but get some jerk that pulls out from shopping center in front of me into middle lane, she passes and I go around behind her, she moves over a lane and is now on my right at next light. I am just looking straight ahead but I notice her staring at me (or car) and so I look over she turns away but I kept looking, she looks back to see if I was still looking and smiles, so I nod. Not knowing she was going to gun it when the light changed I just went like normal, but she hammered it, so I pinned it as well caught up no problem and shifted to second as I passed, got about half a car length on her and she was on the back of my passenger door, just giving it as much gas as she could (you could hear her engine), at this point I am not even giving it all that I got and pull away as I go into third and left her behind. She then backed off and never really caught back up until a little ways down the road when we stopped at a light and I was turning left and she went right. I know sounds like BS beating a 745, but you can ask my friend who was following me home in his wanabe SRpowered Silvia and stinking our exhaust the whole way, he even brought it up when we pulled into my parking lot, it wasnt even close.
Someone's reply
“Beating a 745 ain't no puzzle. They weigh 2.7 tons (5434 lbs) and have a 4.4 liter V8 that makes 325 bhp.â€
“The car cost 70ish not 100.â€
On 1/14/05 wrote:
"It was a reply to slegos, but it now makes no sense because he edited, but yeah I am in agreement with you Id rather have an M (I am more of an M5 person though, even though the 3 is sportier)"
On 6/4/06 Robello wrote
“what are you talking about?
1)3series BMWs are piles of crap, no lie there, definately not worth the money and the only reason they fall into the 30K+ price range is because of the BMW logo, if it were an American car they wouldnt cost more than 20K; and yes 3Series are slow
2)His car the way it is setup with his mods should be around 285rwhp, which would be around 335 at the crank, the M3s are 330 at the crank, this combined with his 3.73s he should be able to take an M3 given comprable drivers
3)My car can easily kill an M3, Ive done it many times
so again I ask of what I said what constitutes you calling me an idiot?
I still don't know why you are calling me an idiot; I at least gave a reason as to why I refered to the 3 Series as a "pile of crap." You are entitled to your oppinion and so am I, and in my oppinion it is "crap." How does that make me an idiot? Is it because you disagree? Why don't you please explain yourself.â€
“And no I do not think that ones opinion would equate to speaking out of their **** just because I dont agree with them.â€
If only he took his own advice…
But on 7/9/06 wrote to me “ so go buy an Audi or a Porsche, what are you doing here biatching about it? sheesh!
I think we should repeat Robello on 1/14/05 wrote:
"It was a reply to slegos, but it now makes no sense because he edited, but yeah I am in agreement with you Id rather have an M (I am more of an M5 person though, even though the 3 is sportier)"
On 7/9/06 Robello wrote….â€so then go buy a honda, seriously you say you are happy with your mustang but then rant about how it pales in comparison to foreign cars, it doesnt sound like you are happy so just go buy a foreign car and stop complaining and leave everyone else that is perfectly happy with owning American muscle the way it is alone.“
And more genius from Robello "And dont say that owning 5 in 1.5 years proves you like Ford, because that could be just because you can't afford the Audis and the Porsches you wish your Ford could be."
Talk about bashing Ford, Robello is an expert, stating someone buys Fords only because they (he wishes) can't afford an Audi or Porsche! How insulting to us Ford owners.
And again on 2/1/05
“Today on the northbound I-5 I pulled up along side a Testarossa, I matched him at 80 mph and we were just cruising, the guy driving then looks over and gives me a thumbs up, so I returned the gesture and continued to cruise along side of him. This was a great feeling because although I have been given thumbs up in many exotics so far, including the Ferrari, it seems that attention to this car has started to die down a bit (probably due to the abundance of V6s on the road) with the exception of car enthuisiasts and kids; and it has been a while since someone with a $100,000+ (or any expensive exotic) car has paid any type of attention to my car, so I am glad to see that even though people are geting use to them they are still really liking it.â€
But wrote on 7/9/06
“Heck not even Ferrari does that. Their latest V12 street legal (currently being sold and on the road) is only producing 540HP (its the SuperAmerica) why dont you go onto a Ferrari site and biatch to them about why they arent making more power? “
He loves to brag about praise he got from a Ferrari owner, but then will twoface to rip someone whose put more money into Ford’s coffers than most private citizens.
Again on 7/9/06 Robello wrote….â€so then go buy a honda, seriously you say you are happy with your mustang but then rant about how it pales in comparison to foreign cars, it doesnt sound like you are happy so just go buy a foreign car and stop complaining and leave everyone else that is perfectly happy with owning American muscle the way it is alone. “
Its just so hard for this guy to figure out who is is..a hero for beating these great cars “ so go buy an Audi or a Porsche, what are you doing here biatching about it? sheesh! And “why dont you go onto a Ferrari site and biatch to them about why they arent making more power? “
or an insecure child for reporting to us perhaps everytime he beats these lame foreign competitors. LOL
This is what I wrote when nothing had been close to confirmed to the outside world that the Shelby GT500 would be built)
Posted by 427sohc June 1. 2004
"One thing to remember is when the same family has owned a strong dealership a long time, they make a lot of friends with zone people that can end up progressing to high places within Ford...And while although they me be very tightlipped in engineering, marketing knows what is planned and word can get out to a few. Shelby is not there for his technical expertise, its not a matter of if, but when the car will be ready."
I wrote on 12/16/04 "Is there demand for 400,000 Stangs a year? "
"There may not currently be capacity to build that many but isn't this car THAT hot?â€
But Robello’s immature prejudments of me on 7/9/06….â€so then go buy a honda, seriously you say you are happy with your mustang but then rant about how it pales in comparison to foreign cars, it doesnt sound like you are happy so just go buy a foreign car and stop complaining and leave everyone else that is perfectly happy with owning American muscle the way it is alone. “
Someone like myself, who has been invited inside Ford Racing for a one-on-one with a FR manager doesn’t take kindly to some punk with probably his first new Mustang V8 saying “WTF†this or that about my loyalties. Have those discussions yourself with FR and discuss bulk purchases of all new aluminum long blocks from Shelby’s engine group like I do before you go lecturing strangers, punk!
FYI- It seems all kinds of military personnel, CIA, FBI and law enforcement personnel risking their lives daily for the safety of our USA drive foreign cars. And some talk about how they think Ford is a lousy company, what should we do with those patriots? How should they be warned to not dare post here...LOL
Yeah you read that right, spanked a hundred thousand dollar car. I was on the way home from work and pulled up to a light and looked over at this new silver 745, was scoping the car and then noticed the hot blonde driving it and scoped her. Light changed and I pulled away, stop at next light same thing checking her out and the car and she looks over, light changes and I pull away but get some jerk that pulls out from shopping center in front of me into middle lane, she passes and I go around behind her, she moves over a lane and is now on my right at next light. I am just looking straight ahead but I notice her staring at me (or car) and so I look over she turns away but I kept looking, she looks back to see if I was still looking and smiles, so I nod. Not knowing she was going to gun it when the light changed I just went like normal, but she hammered it, so I pinned it as well caught up no problem and shifted to second as I passed, got about half a car length on her and she was on the back of my passenger door, just giving it as much gas as she could (you could hear her engine), at this point I am not even giving it all that I got and pull away as I go into third and left her behind. She then backed off and never really caught back up until a little ways down the road when we stopped at a light and I was turning left and she went right. I know sounds like BS beating a 745, but you can ask my friend who was following me home in his wanabe SRpowered Silvia and stinking our exhaust the whole way, he even brought it up when we pulled into my parking lot, it wasnt even close.
Someone's reply
“Beating a 745 ain't no puzzle. They weigh 2.7 tons (5434 lbs) and have a 4.4 liter V8 that makes 325 bhp.â€
“The car cost 70ish not 100.â€
On 1/14/05 wrote:
"It was a reply to slegos, but it now makes no sense because he edited, but yeah I am in agreement with you Id rather have an M (I am more of an M5 person though, even though the 3 is sportier)"
On 6/4/06 Robello wrote
“what are you talking about?
1)3series BMWs are piles of crap, no lie there, definately not worth the money and the only reason they fall into the 30K+ price range is because of the BMW logo, if it were an American car they wouldnt cost more than 20K; and yes 3Series are slow
2)His car the way it is setup with his mods should be around 285rwhp, which would be around 335 at the crank, the M3s are 330 at the crank, this combined with his 3.73s he should be able to take an M3 given comprable drivers
3)My car can easily kill an M3, Ive done it many times
so again I ask of what I said what constitutes you calling me an idiot?
I still don't know why you are calling me an idiot; I at least gave a reason as to why I refered to the 3 Series as a "pile of crap." You are entitled to your oppinion and so am I, and in my oppinion it is "crap." How does that make me an idiot? Is it because you disagree? Why don't you please explain yourself.â€
“And no I do not think that ones opinion would equate to speaking out of their **** just because I dont agree with them.â€
If only he took his own advice…
But on 7/9/06 wrote to me “ so go buy an Audi or a Porsche, what are you doing here biatching about it? sheesh!
I think we should repeat Robello on 1/14/05 wrote:
"It was a reply to slegos, but it now makes no sense because he edited, but yeah I am in agreement with you Id rather have an M (I am more of an M5 person though, even though the 3 is sportier)"
On 7/9/06 Robello wrote….â€so then go buy a honda, seriously you say you are happy with your mustang but then rant about how it pales in comparison to foreign cars, it doesnt sound like you are happy so just go buy a foreign car and stop complaining and leave everyone else that is perfectly happy with owning American muscle the way it is alone.“
And more genius from Robello "And dont say that owning 5 in 1.5 years proves you like Ford, because that could be just because you can't afford the Audis and the Porsches you wish your Ford could be."
Talk about bashing Ford, Robello is an expert, stating someone buys Fords only because they (he wishes) can't afford an Audi or Porsche! How insulting to us Ford owners.
And again on 2/1/05
“Today on the northbound I-5 I pulled up along side a Testarossa, I matched him at 80 mph and we were just cruising, the guy driving then looks over and gives me a thumbs up, so I returned the gesture and continued to cruise along side of him. This was a great feeling because although I have been given thumbs up in many exotics so far, including the Ferrari, it seems that attention to this car has started to die down a bit (probably due to the abundance of V6s on the road) with the exception of car enthuisiasts and kids; and it has been a while since someone with a $100,000+ (or any expensive exotic) car has paid any type of attention to my car, so I am glad to see that even though people are geting use to them they are still really liking it.â€
But wrote on 7/9/06
“Heck not even Ferrari does that. Their latest V12 street legal (currently being sold and on the road) is only producing 540HP (its the SuperAmerica) why dont you go onto a Ferrari site and biatch to them about why they arent making more power? “
He loves to brag about praise he got from a Ferrari owner, but then will twoface to rip someone whose put more money into Ford’s coffers than most private citizens.
Again on 7/9/06 Robello wrote….â€so then go buy a honda, seriously you say you are happy with your mustang but then rant about how it pales in comparison to foreign cars, it doesnt sound like you are happy so just go buy a foreign car and stop complaining and leave everyone else that is perfectly happy with owning American muscle the way it is alone. “
Its just so hard for this guy to figure out who is is..a hero for beating these great cars “ so go buy an Audi or a Porsche, what are you doing here biatching about it? sheesh! And “why dont you go onto a Ferrari site and biatch to them about why they arent making more power? “
or an insecure child for reporting to us perhaps everytime he beats these lame foreign competitors. LOL
This is what I wrote when nothing had been close to confirmed to the outside world that the Shelby GT500 would be built)
Posted by 427sohc June 1. 2004
"One thing to remember is when the same family has owned a strong dealership a long time, they make a lot of friends with zone people that can end up progressing to high places within Ford...And while although they me be very tightlipped in engineering, marketing knows what is planned and word can get out to a few. Shelby is not there for his technical expertise, its not a matter of if, but when the car will be ready."
I wrote on 12/16/04 "Is there demand for 400,000 Stangs a year? "
"There may not currently be capacity to build that many but isn't this car THAT hot?â€
But Robello’s immature prejudments of me on 7/9/06….â€so then go buy a honda, seriously you say you are happy with your mustang but then rant about how it pales in comparison to foreign cars, it doesnt sound like you are happy so just go buy a foreign car and stop complaining and leave everyone else that is perfectly happy with owning American muscle the way it is alone. “
Someone like myself, who has been invited inside Ford Racing for a one-on-one with a FR manager doesn’t take kindly to some punk with probably his first new Mustang V8 saying “WTF†this or that about my loyalties. Have those discussions yourself with FR and discuss bulk purchases of all new aluminum long blocks from Shelby’s engine group like I do before you go lecturing strangers, punk!
FYI- It seems all kinds of military personnel, CIA, FBI and law enforcement personnel risking their lives daily for the safety of our USA drive foreign cars. And some talk about how they think Ford is a lousy company, what should we do with those patriots? How should they be warned to not dare post here...LOL
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: September 2, 2004
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Originally Posted by hi5.0
It seems like its been that way for the longest time. I don't think anyone here doubts Ford's ability to make a high-output NA (V8) motor - only Ford seems to doubt itself (after listening to the beancounters?). Maybe Ford should team up with Yamaha again for a 4.6 "SHO V8" or pirate Volvo's V8...
And BC, on Oahu the "G" is definitely more numerous than the "Z". I think the buyers here definitely don't mind the price difference. The looks probably play a big part in that too.
And BC, on Oahu the "G" is definitely more numerous than the "Z". I think the buyers here definitely don't mind the price difference. The looks probably play a big part in that too.
TMS West Coast Correspondent
Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
How's that been workin' out for Ford so far...? Oh, yeah, that's right, they lost money again this quarter.
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Again, you may wish to check your facts. In my neck of the woods, G35s and 350Zs are priced within 2K of one another, and G35s definitely outnumber 350Zs, primarily because the G35 offers the advantage of a rear seat. And I have been told by dealers here that the G35 most definitely is outselling the 350Z for those aforementioned reasons: anyone spending that kind of money, can easily pony up the extra couple of bills for the G35.
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by rrobello
As for necks of woods, this entire thread we have been talking about the USA market not the Canadian one, so your neck of the woods doesnt count here. If more people are buying G35s in Canada then they are the 350Z great for them, but that has no bearing on what we've been talking about which is the USA market. As for my neck of the woods, which is in the USA BTW, I do live in a very wealthy part of the country where people do have the money to spend on more expensive cars and do so all the time, however 350Zs run a muck here and I can't remember the last time I saw a G35 on the road.
Originally Posted by rrobello
Also if the G35 was in such high demand how come they havent updated that car yet, or come out with several specialty versions of the car, like they have with the 350Z? Its because the 350Z is the more popular car and so they focus their attention where they are more likely to make more money.
Infiniti HAVE updated the G35 (both the sedan and the coupe). The new sedan comes out in a couple of months as an '07...the coupe in '08.
And please don't give me any BS now about how, "that's not what you meant," or, "you meant why hasn't it come out BEFORE now."
Your game is getting old. I can accept when I'm wrong. Can you...?
Post *****
Joined: February 3, 2004
Posts: 14,160
Likes: 73
Not the best layout, but here are sales figures for Nissan through May 2006 . . .
http://www.forbes.com/businesswire/f...1005761r1.html
NISSAN DIVISION SALES Monthly May May DSR CYTD CYTD CYTD DSR 2006 2005 % Change
350Z 2,809 2,588 4.2 12,653 12,065 4.9
G35 Coupe 1,975 2,236 -15.2 8,764 10,873 -19.4
Also . .
http://g-owners.com/article_read.asp?id=8
I can't find a similar chart for the 350z . . . but I may keep trying.
And yes I know we've gone 'Off Topic', but there has been some descent discussion so I don't mind if you don't.
http://www.forbes.com/businesswire/f...1005761r1.html
NISSAN DIVISION SALES Monthly May May DSR CYTD CYTD CYTD DSR 2006 2005 % Change
350Z 2,809 2,588 4.2 12,653 12,065 4.9
G35 Coupe 1,975 2,236 -15.2 8,764 10,873 -19.4
Also . .
http://g-owners.com/article_read.asp?id=8
I can't find a similar chart for the 350z . . . but I may keep trying.
And yes I know we've gone 'Off Topic', but there has been some descent discussion so I don't mind if you don't.
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by Evil_Capri
Not the best layout, but here are sales figures for Nissan through May 2006 . . .
http://www.forbes.com/businesswire/f...1005761r1.html
NISSAN DIVISION SALES Monthly May May DSR CYTD CYTD CYTD DSR 2006 2005 % Change
350Z 2,809 2,588 4.2 12,653 12,065 4.9
G35 Coupe 1,975 2,236 -15.2 8,764 10,873 -19.4
Also . .
http://g-owners.com/article_read.asp?id=8
I can't find a similar chart for the 350z . . . but I may keep trying.
And yes I know we've gone 'Off Topic', but there has been some descent discussion so I don't mind if you don't.
http://www.forbes.com/businesswire/f...1005761r1.html
NISSAN DIVISION SALES Monthly May May DSR CYTD CYTD CYTD DSR 2006 2005 % Change
350Z 2,809 2,588 4.2 12,653 12,065 4.9
G35 Coupe 1,975 2,236 -15.2 8,764 10,873 -19.4
Also . .
http://g-owners.com/article_read.asp?id=8
I can't find a similar chart for the 350z . . . but I may keep trying.
And yes I know we've gone 'Off Topic', but there has been some descent discussion so I don't mind if you don't.
I'm enjoying the show, between rrobello and BC.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,990
Likes: 34
From: Conroe, TX
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
OK, so in the United States the 350Z outsells the G35 Coupe by a significant margin. I stand corrected. However, I can say with authority that here in Canada's third largest metropolitan center, that G35's definitely outsell 350Zs.
Closet American
Joined: July 17, 2005
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 1
From: Vancouver, BC (Hollywood North)
Originally Posted by TomServo92
You were absolutely positive the G35 outsold the 350Z in the states but we all know how that one turned out...
Again, I only SPECIFIED my region...though I will admit now that I SUSPECTED it was North America-wide. It appears it is not.
Legacy TMS Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 3,990
Likes: 34
From: Conroe, TX
Originally Posted by BC_Shelby
Never actually said that. What I said was: In my neck of the woods, G35s and 350Zs are priced within 2K of one another, and G35s definitely outnumber 350Zs...And I have been told by dealers here that the G35 most definitely is outselling the 350Z...
Again, I only SPECIFIED my region...though I will admit now that I SUSPECTED it was North America-wide. It appears it is not.
Again, I only SPECIFIED my region...though I will admit now that I SUSPECTED it was North America-wide. It appears it is not.