Thanks for posting this. It's just adding more wait to what already would have been there.

I'm getting tired of the secondary market crap coming up if we just did the first come first serve system. It is why part of the conditions of buying the car should be that it can't be resold at a greater value for a set amount of time. (like six months to a year) Hence killing individual’s ability to buy them to turn a quick buck.

What we are seeing here is the continued decline of morals and values in society. Everyone wants to turn a quick buck or have the big payday. Nobody is suggesting that people not be able to make money. It’s just how excessive greed is taking away from the average person’s ability to enjoy things in life. Making the rich richer and the poor poorer while squeezing the rest of us in the middle. When this is coming from a Republican like me you know there is a problem here.

 

as said above, this would be very difficult to enforce. The cost of doing it would exceed its worth.

Quote:

What we are seeing here is the continued decline of morals and values in society. Everyone wants to turn a quick buck or have the big payday. Nobody is suggesting that people not be able to make money. It’s just how excessive greed is taking away from the average person’s ability to enjoy things in life. Making the rich richer and the poor poorer while squeezing the rest of us in the middle. When this is coming from a Republican like me you know there is a problem here.

Yeah, I could see a couple grand, maybe $2500 for the first few months. Then die off and sell the rest at MSRP which is still a pretty nice profit. A few of these have actually gone for about $30k over sticker. To me that is absolutely absurd.

 

The market is the market. bpmurr and I are the same part of the problem that the original buyer is: demand exceeds supply. MSRP has nothing to do with it. ADM has nothing to do with it. The aggregate wait is no different with forced MSRP (or voluntary MSRP) than with the current system (ADM). Believe it's different if you feel like getting upset with someone because you don't get the car as soon as you wish. Call them suckers or whatever if that does the trick. $1,000 under, $1,000 over, $20,000 over, $30,000 over...there is no magic number. One number is no more absurd than the other. Really. It's just upsetting because you can't get the car you want and the price that you think you should pay.

 

No I'm pissed that I bought a car from a dealer. Helped them sell a ton of other Mustangs and can't even get the car at MSRP. Which I think we can all agree is still a nice profit.

I don't think you'd be defending your ADM statements had you not been able to secure a MSRP deal. Remember what you have found is a rarity.

 

I was defending them long before I found one at MSRP (...if your suspicous of this, I can point you to the relevent posts the predate my deal over on stangsunleashed).

And I was frustrated that I couldn't find one at MSRP for quite some time. Frustrated because the demand was so great and the supply so relatively small (in the short run). And I TOTALLY understand why you're upset with your dealer...you've been a good customer and he's not reciprocating by getting you a GT500. That is a legitimate reason to gripe about the dealer. I'd be angry, too.

But the fact that your dealer is a jerk or does not stand by his word simply because he could get a better price does not make ADM bad. It makes your dealer bad. There are plenty of dealers who have made MSRP deals and are standing by them...even though they now realize realize they could have gotten more money.

Another way to look at it: Let's say the current market price for the GT500 is MSRP. If your original deal was for invoice and your dealer later decided to sell it to someone else for MSRP (because your dealer foud some "sucker" offering him MSRP), would that make MSRP bad? Of course not. But it still makes your dealer bad.

 

I'm just throwing a thought I had out, so nobody has to get hostile if they disagree with me, just saying that I think the dealerships aren't stupid and that they know there are a lot of people who want to buy this car at lower prices. So the thought I had was once all the ADM buyers are gone and the cars sit on the lots and the prices get dropped, all of the other people who have been watching and waiting for the prices to drop are going to come crawling out of the woodwork to go try and buy one and then the demand is going to go up again and drive a second wave of markups, probably not as bad as the initial ones, but I just think a good deal for GT500 buyers for 2007 is doubtful (yes I know a few people have managed to get good deals already), and probably a good portion of 2008.

 

Could be...usually price movements are more fluid. As the price drops, it'll hit an individual's price point and he'll step up and pay. If a person is willing to pay $3k over MSRP, generally that person won't wait until the price hits MSRP and then step in and bid things up. He'll be afraid that things will never come down to MSRP and he'll just buy when he's in his personal sweet spot to avoid the possibility of missing out altogether. But, what you described could happen...I can think of one scenario where it's feasible but unlikely. The are no doubt other scenarios where it might happen.

 

I just find it interesting that nobody seems to remember that AMVs go both ways. When a vehicle is selling slow, the AMV is negative i.e. rebates and discounts. As buyers, we're in favor of those type of AMVs but we get all up in arms when it goes the other way. Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly like dealer marking cars up over MSRP but it's the reality of a free market. Sometimes it favors the buyer and sometimes the seller.

 

Yep...I am sooooo thankful we live in a society with a legal and economic system that allows this type of free play.

 

The shame of it is that Ford see's none of that money, and they are the ones with the need. The car already has pretty nice dealer profit built in to help them recover other costs. Like fussy buyers

 

Please post the dates, locations and links of those $25,000 rebates and dealer discounts. TIA.

 

Point taken...

However, I will say there are generally FAR more cars that end up with discount vs. the ones that end up with big markups. I would bet that it ends up balancing out in the end. It's not unusual to see $10-15K off of a full size SUV right now.

 

Are you implying there has been AMVs on SUVs?

 

Yes, they just happen to be negative ones!

 

Hummer status does come with a price.

 

All I'm trying to say is that for every model that comes out where demand is high enough to create a positive AMV (such as the GT500), a model comes out that has demand low enough to create negative AMVs (such as the 500 or any of the current crop of mid to large size SUVs). There are usually more of the negative AMVs models out there and they usually sell in larger numbers. In the end I believe it balances out. It's be nice if cars just sold for MSRP without any negative or positive markets adjustments but that just isn't going to happen.

 

I understood your first points. I figured I antagonize you a bit.

The bottom line with AMVs is the spitting on those who have supported the Mustang products through thick and thin, short comings or triumphs. Ford hasn't gotten the point, but I have the feeling GM is beginning to.

Last weekend I stopped by the Saturn and Pontiac dealers. Both had their new toys, the Sky and the Solstice. Both sales reps said the exact same line: "...the car is in demand, we are not discounting them but we are not asking AMVs either, so is MSRP. First come, first served". A breath of fresh air.

The emphasis on "not asking AMVs either" was very pronounced, very obvious, and very direct. Not only that, both sales reps came across as sincere and straight forward. Imagine that.

 

I refuse to play the game. Thats why I bought a 05 V6 at msrp, and not a cent more. GTs were going for 5-6K over msrp. Now a year later alot of guys are struggling to make payments, or they are tired and want something else. Guess what? At resale that 5-6K premium doesnt mean squat.

Bottom line: Dealers are blood suckers, supply and demand doesnt mean anything, its just an excuse to squeeze every cent out of the consumer possible.

GM dealers are doing the same thing with the Solstice. Cant find one on a lot, but there are plenty on e-bay listed by dealers for 5K over msrp.

Anyway, screw the GT500, when I get ready to step into that price range it going to be a Vette for me.

 

Perhaps there's hope after all....

 

I believe you will find that more likely for Saturn dealers vs. Pontiac dealers. A number of the local Pontiac places here were glad to offer me one of their hot cars for $1000 over MSRP.

Saturn's no-haggle practices are great at keeping some of the Pontiac dealers in check.

By the way, the average wait time on a Saturn Sky when I was looking at them was 4-6 months. Their production is more limited than the Solstice.