MRGTX

I have been a Mopar fan from the time when I was old enough to notice the difference between a Monaco and a Caprice. For whatever reason, even as a kid, Dodges, Plymouths and Chryslers were always the cars I gravitated too...and I even caught myself drooling over a Desoto or two...but Road Runners, 'Cudas, 340 Dusters were completely irresistible.

By the time I was in a position to shop for a new performance car of my own there were three extremely appealing options in my price range- Camaro SS, Challenger R/T and the Mustang GT (of course). Like everybody here, I read everything I could on these cars, and picked the "best" car.

At the time, I was able to drive a Camaro SS/6spd and a Mustang GT but I skipped the Challenger test drive after waiting a really long time to drive a car I was all but certain was waaaay too big and less of a hot rod for the money... And while the Camaro was cool, the Mustang GT 5.0 knocked my socks off...but I always had a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that The Challenger R/T car might have stolen my heart.

So last night I spotted a dazzling "Toxic Orange" 2011 Challenger R/T freshly off the truck and I had to drop in to take a look. It was a fairly loaded model and optioned just the way I wouldn't want it- automatic, sunroof, leather, nav, chrome wheels...and no track pack... but it was the only R/T they had on the lot...and it was still a damned fine looking muscle car.

So there is a fine line to walk when you're at the dealership to do some tire kicking between lying/wasting a salesman's time and not showing enough interest to be granted a test drive. I am honestly and truly interested in these cars...and I would consider owning one (even if not for a couple years)...and it was a really slow night at the Dodge dealership so I felt ok about the whole thing. Some of you might have differing opinions about this...but I thought Dodge deserved their chance at my wallet even if it was a remote one at the moment...and that justified it for me.

The pricing on these cars is just a notch higher than the Mustang. It seems that you can get a base Mustang GT for almost $2k less and that trend seems to hold as you add options...but the Challenger might be a better bargain if you're buying a car by the lb. The track pack offers bigger tires, brakes, revised steering ratio and suspension tuning- and at $500, that option is an absolute must-have...and most folks seem very happy with the 6MT...which would round out the options sheet for me, making the car about $33k before incentives. Not too bad. The one I drove was just under $39k which seemed fairly painful but I suspect they'll sell it without too much trouble.

So after talking the pricing numbers he tossed me the keys and we were off. Maneuvering the Challenger out of the parking lot was the first moment where I realized that this was a BIG car. The sight lines aren't good. They're not Camaro-bad, but they make the Mustang feel like a greenhouse on wheels. The sills are just so high that it's hard to gauge the locations of the corners.

The ceiling is low...possibly exacerbated by the sunroof's intrusion into the headliner...definitely low enough to make me conscious of hitting my head (I'm 6'1")... I think I could get used to it but there wouldn't be any room for a helmet.

The seats were comfortable though and the driving position was fine. Despite complaints in the auto ragazines, I found the interior to be tasteful and simple, no better or worse than the Mustang, probably a bit more appealing than the Camaro (which isn't horrible either, IMO).

Once on the road, the perception of hugeness waned. The car felt solid, and almost crisp with particularly good throttle response, such that it hid the anticipated sense of inertia from such a hulking machine. The standard steering ratio was probably a bit slow and the steering had none of the Mustang's feedback but it wasn't glaringly bad. I never really stood on the brakes but the pedal was properly weighted and the clamping force felt appropriately linear. The handling (through the few corners I found on the short drive) was slightly better than I expected. The suspension kept the car much flatter than I anticipated and though I didn't brake the tires free, I could tell that I had a few bonus "tenths of a G" worth of grip that I didn't expect. It had none of the nigh-sports car feel of the Mustang but it wasn't that bad. I gather that the 2011s have had some suspension improvements...that might have helped here. Regardless, I could tell that this car will not be taking home many class-winner trophies at the autocross. It's just a lot o' car to rotate.

So I have one personal rule when test driving a car- if I'm fairly certain that it won't be THE CAR that I will sign the paperwork for, I will not flog it. I can't help but mentally switch places with the fellow who will eventually take it home and imagine that I wouldn't want some tire kicker ragging out my car before I owned it- and while the engine was still extremely green.

That said, I did crack the throttle open enough to get a sense of the car's acceleration capability... and I wasn't extremely impressed. The automatic downshifts abruptly and unpredictably. I'm sure you could learn the behavior of this transmission and work with it...but in full auto mode, it doesn't have the crispness of a high performance drive train component. The Autostick/maunal mode helped some but the shifts that you ask for (with an unsatisfying, numb, 1/2" shove to the right) still happens on the automatic's own schedule. A shift kit of some sort might do wonders here.

So the car does pull... almost exactly to the same level of excitement (or lack thereof) as you'll find in a 2005-2009 Mustang GT. Authoritative but not spine tingling. In fairness, I didn't preload the transmission before launching, I didn't burn the hides... and I let off before the redline but the bulk of the power seemed to be made in the low range of the power band which is a nice change from the Mustang, to be honest. The HEMI does sound great too, much better than the Coyote, IMO. This car is obviously not in the same acceleration league as the Mustang GT but the engine IS a selling point.

Given that, the engine was really the only component of this car that couldn't be mistaken for something other than a performance car. The Challenger is a nice driving, comfortable, amazing looking car...but it's soft. A little too comfortable to feel vicious, a little too bulky to be inspired to push it through a back road hair pin curve. Had I only compared the Challenger to the Camaro, the Challenger would be in my driveway right now. It's just so much more likeable and appealing than the Chevy...

I couldn't help but love the Challenger R/T for reasons I couldn't quite put my finger on. It definitely captures some Muscle Car essence that the Mustang doesn't... but when it comes to driving dynamics, the Mustang is in its own league...and that's both a shame and a wonder. I can easily imagine someone driving both cars and preferring what the Challenger has to offer. It's a hell of a machine...just different.

Hopping in the Mustang to head back home (with the Challenger Brochure tossed into the back seat) I could have sworn that someone replaced my Mustang with a big block powered Lotus Elan. The power, the steering, the visibility...all light years ahead of the Challenger.

Anyway... this is by far my longest post on The Mustang Source...not sure if anyone will bother to read it all....
...but if anyone else has driven a Challenger, I'd love to hear what you though.

How do Challengers take suspension mods? Are they holding up to engine mods any better than the Mustangs?

Ethanjbeau

I believe youre correct about the suspension. Dodge did beef it up for the 2011 model year and I remember reading that the 2011 is significantly better than the 2010 handling wise.

Too bad you couldn't find one with the manual. I heard through the grapevine that the manual is sourced from the viper. Anyone know any truth to that?

And they're going to be replacing that 5speed auto with an 8 speed eventually. They already replaced it in the V6 model, but not the V8s. Go figure

jmatero

The 2011 RT with the super track pack and six-speed feels like a different car than the auto... Try one out. Comes with glass packs and the sound is amazing.

In terms of performance, the SRT8 is more of a direct comparison... But $$$$

MRGTX

Reeaaally... hmm.. I will definitely give it another try with the super track pack. I didn't realize that there was a difference in exhaust as well. The regular R/T has a good sound but like the 5.0 Mustangs, it's a bit too quiet.

Thanks for the tip.

To your point about the SRT8, I think the new SRT392 might finally be a little bit quicker (on the strip) than the GT. 470hp... that's quite a mill.

eliyarbrough

I've always loved Mustangs, just not Fords. I however loved lil less all makes of Dodge's. My favorite uncle sold them. I used to go spend day w/him up @ the dealership. I was there when they got their 1st Viper, he'll I kinda sold their 1st '94 3500 Diesel to a friend of mine. Yep, my dad has a kick$ss 09 Ram Crew Cab w/Hemi. We both just thought it was quick!

My pharmacist's wife has a Challenger SRT8, orange. It's a nice car!! I loved it right up til I bought mine. I will always like the Challengers.

I did read every word you typed, & quite liked it!! That was a good comparison. How I say just mine is better, you backed it up!!

Double-EDad

My wife loves the Challengers. There was one on a toyota dealership lot in the "Fine used cars" section that she'd pass multiple times per week. It was there for weeks on end. Our daughters told me jokingly that she wanted to buy it! When it was finally sold we all said that "her" Challenger was gone....

Thankfully now that I have my GB coupe she is a much bigger fan of what I am driving. I sure hope that switching to Steeda Ultralite springs & Konis doesn't dissuade her!

Glenn

I like the rt's and the srt's more. My thinking is if you have a child or 2 go for the challenger you will like the extra room otherwise get the stang and don't look back.

justindo

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Challenger and the Mustang. I own a 2010 R/T Classic with the Super Track Pak and I agree with most of what you wrote. The Challenger and the Mustang are two different cars, each with their individual strengths and weaknesses, and I think you covered them pretty well.

Dodge did improve the handling and steering quite a bit on the 2011 models, but the 2008-10 SRT and 2010 R/T with the Super Track Pak handle and feel about as good as the 2011s.

Off the line, all three HEMIs have more grunt than the 5.0, although all the engines really shine in the higher RPMs. The 2011 6.4 SRT is a beast, but it's pushing $50,000. There are rumors that Dodge will add a supercharger to it for 2013. The HEMIs respond well to modifications and have no issues, unlike the 5.0. The R/T with a tune, CAI, and catback exhaust will match the performance of the 2010 6.1 SRT. The manual transmission is the same one that's in the Viper and the manual's exhaust sounds better and louder than the automatic's. Chrysler is putting the 8-speed automatic in the 2012 V6 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300, but they're still testing it with the HEMIs. It may debut with the HEMI engines in 2013.

MRGTX

Thank you, justindo- Excellent insight here... and yes, the comment about taking CAI/Tune with no issues stings a bit. Impressive that there is that much power to be found there too...

Do you have any pictures of your car?

The thing I have really come to appreciate about the Challengers cars over the past few weeks is how Dodge really understands what makes them special and they consistently offer packages and color combinations that cause instant salivation. I have now seen one each of the Green With Envy R/T Classic and SRT392...and I almost drove off the road each time. What a stunning color... and I love the grey wheels that come with the R/T!!

RedCandy5.0

I have seen both Green With Envy R/T Classic and SRT392 also. They look fantastic. Really hard to resist.

97svtgoin05gt

I've never driven one but I can say I've seen the RT with the dark blue paint and the chrome wheels and I will say especially from the back that is one sexy beast.

Rjaniz

HEY! Watch it.

97svtgoin05gt

No kidding, like we're second rate citizens...sheesh!

MRGTX

Hey, now...not meant as an instult. I LOVED the 05-09 GT...but to be honest, Raw acceleration was not the car's strong suit (in stock form) but it was more than fast enough to be entertaining...and it's a great drive all around.

brazeagle

AMAZING POST FROM MRGTX
It is interesting to find here more info on the SRTs than in the Challenger's forums, where I have been researching quite a bit in the past month for a SRT8 392.
I am a mustang onwer, I love my MOD 2011 GT 5.0, which I have 466HP on the wheel, but, as a daily driver! do I really use it at all!
The Mustang is a great car, I cannot say differently, since this is the first Mustang I ever had, also a SRT8 is a beautiful car, but I never drove one, so really the entire post enlighten me.

brazeagle

AMAZING POST MRGTX, A+ for you. I had to read entirely.
I found it interesting to have more information on the SRT's in this forum than in the Challenger's forum, as I have been researching about the SRT8 – 392 for a month now.

I am an owner of a 2011 GT 5.0 with 466HP on the wheel (Steeda mods), but as a daily driver and a very clean and cautious I am, do I really use that type of power? So power is not really the issue in my case, but looks and comfort are.

This is my first Mustang, and I never drove a SRT before, I have quite a bit of racing experience with VW and Motorcycles in the past, where I professionally raced both in Brazil. I find the Mustang a GREAT and beautiful car, also I find the interior too very simple and crowded, but with GREAT PERFORMANCE.

That said, I am on the top of the fence, between staying with the Mustang family or the 392, I guess the best bet, since the prices on the 392 are not so different to the SHELBY, I will wait for the SHELBY 2013 to come out and then take a decision, and I just hope that the 2013 GT500 (will be GT600!) and will come out early 2012!
Anyway,
Thanks for all the inputs, very informative.
Safe ride everyone,

wannabe

That review was better written than most of what's available in the magazines. Good on you.

a14umbra

I agree completely. I happen to own a toxic orange Challenger RT. I happened upon this thread and signed up to give the OP kudos. Very accurate and well communicated.

brazeagle

a14umbra,
I forwarded that post to the challenger forum, I am glad you have read and reached on to this forum for your opinion.
I am the one thinking of changing my GT 5.0 to a SRT8 392, but I am not yet convinced about the SRT8 392...what was your experience opinion on the SRT since you are a owner? have you drive a Mustang before?
Please reply to me in private message if you don't feel like replying in here, but I would appreciate if you answered me, it would help me get a better opinion for someone else.
Tks.
braztang at the other forum.

a14umbra

I'm not going to be much help one this. As I said, I have an RT. I have purposely never driven an SRT. To me right now the SRT is a fascination, if I drive it I know it will become an obsession. That's an obsession I can't afford.
Wish I could help more.