laserred38

Hey guys. I know we have heard lots of rumors. I stopped by my dealer and talked to one of the sales guys that I've chatted with before. He is one of the few who is really into Mustangs and has a couple Fox bodies and an 05. I asked him if he has heard anything about the 2011s, and he told me that everyone in the Mustang community is saying/hoping for the 5.0 and 6spd for the GT and well, I know he will ultimately say whatever he can to try and get me to buy something NOW, but he said from what he's been told from Ford he doesn't think the 5.0 and 6spd will happen until MY2012. Now if someone could confirm that rumor about the 2010 GT500 having the aluminum block (I forgot to ask him if he knew anything about that)...then it doesn't matter to me anyway as I'll be ordering a GT500. But if not, I'm still interested in the 5.0 GT, but has anyone really confirmed this?!?

m05fastbackGT

No offense towards your dealer, but he's full of As 05fordgt (Jeff) who also works at a Ford dealership, and according to him along with Ford insiders FourCam330 and Ivan@blueovalnews have stated the 400HP 5.0 with 6 speed will arrive on the 2011MY, next year !

laserred38

Haha hey man that's why I was asking. I wasn't saying I trust the guy I talked to. I was just trying to confirm the rumors. I can't wait to hear if that aluminum block rumor on the GT500 is true, because if it's not and the 400hp GT is coming for 2011, it's a done deal for me!

rhumb

Maybe as a matter of semantics, both might be right in that it will be a 2012 model arriving during the 2011 model year. Oftentimes lately, these model year designations get a bit fuzzy with the what is designated as a next year's model arriving on about January 2nd of the current year.

Ford often/usually is a bit slow on bringing stuff out, though to its benefit, they seem to be doing a much better job of making sure its actually right, quality-wise, which I think is more important.

crazyhorse

The difference between an iron and aluminum block is the only thing keeping you from getting a GT500? You are talking about somewhere near 100 lbs difference. Unless you are a professional racer, the difference will be insignificant. You might shave a tenth of second off your track day times. On the street, it won't matter at all.

I drove mine a few hot laps on the Tail of the Dragon in October. I never once thought "Geez this iron block is heavy."

laserred38

100 pounds is 100 pounds. You don't go to the track/strip with your wife/girlfriend riding shotgun do you? I'm looking for the best performance for the money. 400hp and 6spd stock with an aluminum engine in the GT, plus take your choice of supercharger and the GT will be faster than a stock GT500. If I were to get a GT500 now, I would definitely not be able to mod it as freely as a GT with the payments. That an the new GT500 will probably be picking up a few pounds here and there as the new GT did. Like I said I'm looking for my best combination of power, performance and looks (which will be MY opinion).

crazyhorse

The second run up and down the dragon I took my 225# brother along as a passenger. Didn't notice a difference. That run was actually a little hotter as I was more comfortable with the layout of the road.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I was just surprised to hear that the block material was a deal breaker. If you are going to compete, I could understand why. Otherwise, I doubt the difference would be noticeable in a street cruiser that sees the track now and then. If you do compete, the 4 valve heads of the GT500 should allow you to get as much power out of the car as you want. The forged internals of the GT500 would allow you to do so fairly safely. I doubt the GT will have forged internals or 4 valve heads.

Good luck with whatever you choose. I'm sure you wouldn't go wrong either way.

Black GT500

The true difference between the cast iron and the aluminum 5.4 engine block is less than 80 pounds.

As crazyhorse has already asked, that <80 difference between cast iron and the aluminum is really the only thing keeping you from getting a GT500? To must of us that sounds really silly. Weight is weight, and silly is silly. Move you battery into the trunk, problem solved.

Obviously you will do what you gotta do, but that doesn't make someone hinging their choice on 80 pounds...

Well good luck with your choice...

cbr1000

If you wait for the next best thing to buy something you will end up never buying anything. It's tough to know when to pull the trigger and make a purchase. It's such a large investment you don't want to find out six months or a year later you could of got the same thing or better for less money.

MARZ

Actually, the upcoming 5.0L is supposed to have 4V heads.

Black GT500

Well the "dreamers" would like it to, but the fact remains, Ford Motor Company is getting every bit as good performance out of their 3-valve heads for less parts, cost, and weight. Other than the allure of having 4-valves, they really are overrated.

max2000jp

It's hard to lose 300lbs and in my opinion that's how much "fat" that needs to be trimmed off the Shelby. Weight is the enemy! Moving weight around doesn't solve the issue.

1trickpony

There's a lot more to making power than just cfm but the current 4-V's flows 300 cfm on the intake side versus maybe 225 cfm for the 3-V. Its even worse on the exhaust side. As you move up the power band the 4-V heads should start pulling away from the 3-V heads. Its hard to make more than 75 lbs/tq per liter so the only way to make 400 HP is somewhere north of 5252 rpm. Based on what I've hear here and other places, Ford is moving up the power band (7000 rpm redline) with the 5.0 and that's probably driving the move to 4-V heads. The 3-V heads should make better low-end torque than 4-V heads.

Black GT500

Every single direct power comparison I have seen surprisingly shows little or no performance advantage for the 4-valve heads over the 3-valve heads, even well past 700 horsepower.

Even Kenne Bell can't take advantage of the 4-valve heads.




Like I said initially, the 4-Valve heads just don't pencil out...

Black GT500

It is amusing to me how the only people that continuously complain about the GT500's weight are the people who are not driving them.

The SN197 GT500's real problem is not too much weight. It's real problem is not being able to get enough traction.

Sure it would be nice to have an eighteen hundred pound high horsepower car that pulls 1.3 on the skid pad, but that is not what the Mustang is or was ever meant to be.

They do already make that a street car like that though, it is the Ariel Atom 3.

m05fastbackGT

Actually, the upcoming 5.0L Will have 4V heads !

max2000jp

I won't drive one because it's a porker. If you look in my sig, I've got a pretty good power to lbs advantage over a GT500. Weight just doesn't translate to straight line acceleration. It also affects handling and braking. The GT500 would be a much more potent car if it didn't weigh almost 3900 lbs from the factory. The Camaro SS and Challenger SRT8 also have the same issue. I don't think anyone would be adverse to the GT500 losing weight.

1trickpony

I agree the numbers look great for the 3 valve. I think in this case the 3-V has a better head design. The intake path is better so it will put up better numbers compared with the Ford 4-V heads even with a lower cfm. Like I said before, cfm isn't everything but all equal they should make more power at higher rpm.

Black GT500

The power penalty for 100 pounds is very close to 12-15 horsepower. That costs 45 horsepower to make up the GT500's "extra" 300 pounds. Even accounting for the "extra" weight, that is still +155 "extra" horsepower over the stock 3600+ pound GT's 300 horsepower...

Wanna talk mods?
I've looked at your signature, I see you've got around +100 pounds of mods added. Your slight couple hundred pound weight difference calculates into 25-45 "freed up" horsepower. I don't see any real advantage over a GT500 there.

A simple tune garners the GT500 +40 horsepower. A cold air intake, pulley swap and a tune puts you over 620 horsepower. Or a simple blower swap with ZERO added weight puts you over 890 horsepower still at the original well appointed 3900 pounds. Now that is a power to weight ratio. Some of that "extra" 300 pounds is wider (read: better lateral grip & better traction) wheels & tires, bigger and better brakes, a much better clutch and world class supercar six speed transmission and much nicer seats, the run of the mill Vortech Supercharged GT still does not have these, and if it did the weight difference be gone except for the 75 pound iron block.

I also have a 3600 pound 315 horsepower 2008 Bullitt (as we all now know the "new & improved" 2010 GT is the well put together 2008 Bullitt underneath), I compare the two quite often, and I guarantee, when you or anyone else drive a SN197 GT500, "porker" is the last thing that comes to your mind.

It is obvious you don't really know what you are talking about as to the GT500. I suggest you drive one if you want to keep spewing this porker malarkey. Like I said the only people who call the GT500 a porker are those who don't drive them.

max2000jp

I've added maybe 50lbs to my car, since I took weight out of the car before the supercharger. From the factory, the GT is 400 lbs lighter than a GT500. That's a ton of weight. I am more of a handling guy than a drag racing guy. The weight affects everything, including handling.

I know a guy that has tracked his personal GT500 and said it wasn't very fun due to heavy understeer at the limit. His exact words were that the front end was too heavy. This is coming from a guy who have extensive experience road racing Mustangs.

I know you won't believe it, but I built a GT500 beater in terms of handling. Any road race guy on this forum will tell you that the standard GT is a better platform for handling. Taking weight out of a car is hard and costs a lot of money.

If the 2011's weight with the 5.0L and 6 speed stays similar to what we see today. The disparity between the GT500 and GT will be closed. That's why Ford needs to take weight out of the GT500. Anyone that has a basic understanding of cars will welcome ANY weight reduction that Ford is willing to give us.

FYI, I will call any 3900 lbs sports car a porker across the board.