Modding an '11
1/2/10, 04:30 PM
#21
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I am not an engine guru, just an enthusiast like you. However, having talked with engineering people from Ford quite a bit, what I consistently hear from them is "Know Your Goals". When you start changing parts around without clarity in goals, you might not catch all of the implications of the total system working effectively. Of course, if you have the money to build up an engine, the more you got, the more you can overbuild or finesse things repeatedly. However, if you want the car to be emissions legal, durable, have good drivability, and run on pump fuel, you definitely will benefit from some more study of what's out there.
I suspect that aftermarket companies that start tearing into and experimenting will provide lots of information in the coming months. I think folks here are providing good insight into the various pieces of the puzzle, but I think all those things I listed in my previous post will an impact on what you might try to do with aftermarket parts.
By the way, if it were me looking to do something aftermarket and maintain a reasonable budget (under $8,000), I would be looking at forced induction systems and utilizing the limits Ford built in and stay under them. Otherwise, you start getting into a car that approaches GT500 levels of cost. I would take the cues from Ford on what they do with the rumored Boss or updated GT500. They did a lot of hard work for you!
1/2/10, 05:00 PM
#22
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Put this under "I didn't practice what I'm preaching". I would wait to do really anything until the engine is in the market and real life feedback is available. Also, there will be limited selectibility regarding choices for mods for awhile.
1/2/10, 05:06 PM
#23
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A good inter-cooler and methanol injection for the octane and further cooling it provides should give enough cushion for a decent amount of boost. People will find the limits soon enough, although the learning curve will be steeper with the extra cam timing and compression involved.
1/2/10, 06:02 PM
#24
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I know we don't see as much press on centrifugal superchargers as we used to but I am thinking this engine might be a good application for one. Should be interesting to see what Vortec, Procharger, etc. might come up with. The advantage of the Roots style and Whipple SC's has always been that they produce torque increases at low revs, something the 4.6 really needed. Now that we will have a few more cubes and, more importantly, TiVCT to handle the torque issue I could see where using a centrifugal to pick up the top end might work pretty well. If the new head design takes up as much space in the valley as the pics seem to show a centrifugal might also be easier to package than a blower/intercooler mounted on top.
Kidding aside, centrifugals are awesome in the mid and upper rpm ranges. A Vortech V3 Si-trim on an '11 GT would be quite a rush!
1/2/10, 06:27 PM
#25
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Why would you immediately switch to aftermarket heads (assuming there are ones available at the time you have the $$)? Based on the flow characteristics and manufacturing techniques, there might be other areas to focus.
If it were me, I would not piecemeal swapping out pistons or connecting rods unless I knew very specifically a) the power output levels I wanted, b) my budget, and c) the theoretical limits of what the stock pieces were going to hold.
Yes, that will be nice.
What's wrong with a lot of boost if the internals can take it? Are you purely thinking about the compression ratio? And by the way, if you are getting into the area of aftermarket heads, you are going to be looking at tuning with compression ratios in consideration.
I am not an engine guru, just an enthusiast like you. However, having talked with engineering people from Ford quite a bit, what I consistently hear from them is "Know Your Goals". When you start changing parts around without clarity in goals, you might not catch all of the implications of the total system working effectively. Of course, if you have the money to build up an engine, the more you got, the more you can overbuild or finesse things repeatedly. However, if you want the car to be emissions legal, durable, have good drivability, and run on pump fuel, you definitely will benefit from some more study of what's out there.
I suspect that aftermarket companies that start tearing into and experimenting will provide lots of information in the coming months. I think folks here are providing good insight into the various pieces of the puzzle, but I think all those things I listed in my previous post will an impact on what you might try to do with aftermarket parts.
By the way, if it were me looking to do something aftermarket and maintain a reasonable budget (under $8,000), I would be looking at forced induction systems and utilizing the limits Ford built in and stay under them. Otherwise, you start getting into a car that approaches GT500 levels of cost. I would take the cues from Ford on what they do with the rumored Boss or updated GT500. They did a lot of hard work for you!
If it were me, I would not piecemeal swapping out pistons or connecting rods unless I knew very specifically a) the power output levels I wanted, b) my budget, and c) the theoretical limits of what the stock pieces were going to hold.
Yes, that will be nice.
What's wrong with a lot of boost if the internals can take it? Are you purely thinking about the compression ratio? And by the way, if you are getting into the area of aftermarket heads, you are going to be looking at tuning with compression ratios in consideration.
I am not an engine guru, just an enthusiast like you. However, having talked with engineering people from Ford quite a bit, what I consistently hear from them is "Know Your Goals". When you start changing parts around without clarity in goals, you might not catch all of the implications of the total system working effectively. Of course, if you have the money to build up an engine, the more you got, the more you can overbuild or finesse things repeatedly. However, if you want the car to be emissions legal, durable, have good drivability, and run on pump fuel, you definitely will benefit from some more study of what's out there.
I suspect that aftermarket companies that start tearing into and experimenting will provide lots of information in the coming months. I think folks here are providing good insight into the various pieces of the puzzle, but I think all those things I listed in my previous post will an impact on what you might try to do with aftermarket parts.
By the way, if it were me looking to do something aftermarket and maintain a reasonable budget (under $8,000), I would be looking at forced induction systems and utilizing the limits Ford built in and stay under them. Otherwise, you start getting into a car that approaches GT500 levels of cost. I would take the cues from Ford on what they do with the rumored Boss or updated GT500. They did a lot of hard work for you!
For all we know these stock pieces on the new 5.0 will be more then enough to handle any serious amount of power. Afterall isn't this engine going to be put into the GT500 in the near future. I hope that your right about Ford doing alot of the hard work in building this engine.
I think my mind is getting way ahead of my budget. Thanks for reminding me of that.
KEEP IN MIND A BUGET EVERYONE.
1/2/10, 06:41 PM
#26
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The GT500 will get a built version of the engine that is stronger than the GT, guaranteed. You won't see cracked forged rods and cast pistons in a GT500/Cobra. SVT engines are hand built on the Romeo-Niche line. Mustang GT engines are mass produced. This is one of the reasons the SVT version of the Mustang costs $50,000 and not $30,000 like a GT.
Last edited by eci; 1/2/10 at 06:43 PM.
1/2/10, 07:10 PM
#27
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The GT500 will get a built version of the engine that is stronger than the GT, guaranteed. You won't see cracked forged rods and cast pistons in a GT500/Cobra. SVT engines are hand built on the Romeo-Niche line. Mustang GT engines are mass produced. This is one of the reasons the SVT version of the Mustang costs $50,000 and not $30,000 like a GT.
1/2/10, 07:32 PM
#28
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How much more would it really cost Ford to put a built version of the 5.0 in the GT? I understand that handbuilding an engine takes time but if they are using a forged steel crank and forged powder coated rods then why don't they just fully build the engine? Is it to much work?
Last edited by eci; 1/2/10 at 07:33 PM.
1/2/10, 08:53 PM
#31
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It would only cost $500 more to put forged h-beam rods and forged aluminum pistons in the 2011 GT. Not much right? Multiply that times 40,000 GT's = 20 million dollars. How many of those 40,000 people would care? The people on this forum who want blowers are a TINY niche of the Mustang GT buyer market. It is a waste of $20,000,000 to Ford who don't want to jack up the price of the car for no reason to the majority of buyers.
Would it only cost that much in the aftermarket or is it more expensive?
1/3/10, 02:08 AM
#32
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The problem with aftermarket is the price of new pistons and rods is miniscule compared to the labor to pull the engine, install and balance the new rotating assembly, and reinstall the engine.
1/3/10, 08:29 AM
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The GT500 will get a built version of the engine that is stronger than the GT, guaranteed. You won't see cracked forged rods and cast pistons in a GT500/Cobra. SVT engines are hand built on the Romeo-Niche line. Mustang GT engines are mass produced. This is one of the reasons the SVT version of the Mustang costs $50,000 and not $30,000 like a GT.
1/3/10, 10:34 AM
#34
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
I think I would rather spend some money getting some wider tires for the 2011. The ones in the spec sheet are 235/50/R18 which is a pretty narrow tread width for a car with over 400 HP! 
It really should be at least 255 in width, perhaps even 285 in the back? What good is a bunch of horse power if you're just spining your wheels?
Maybe we'll get lucky and Ford will give us a wider tread width for the 2011 Mustang? If not, then it's Discount Tires for me!
It really should be at least 255 in width, perhaps even 285 in the back? What good is a bunch of horse power if you're just spining your wheels?
Maybe we'll get lucky and Ford will give us a wider tread width for the 2011 Mustang? If not, then it's Discount Tires for me!
1/3/10, 10:54 AM
#35
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It's very possible the axle-backs from the 2010 GT will also fit the 2011. Usually the first parts out the gate are tuners, cold air intakes, and pulleys. Lowering it will also be a must as Ford, even today, keeps bringing out the Mustang like it's riding on stilts.
1/4/10, 12:11 AM
#36
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As for the 2011 modding, everyone sit tight. It will come. Anyone buying a 2011 is essentially getting a 100hp upgrade over the current so that can occupy for a bit. Plus don't forget there's the rest of the vehicle to take care of. The suspension and chassis are likely unchanged (or not so far off they can't take current aftermarket mods) and there's always non-engine upgrades that can be done (like cooling, brakes, etc).
1/4/10, 09:43 AM
#37
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The suspension is changed a little bit according the the Ford press release. They would have to change something since the car ahs an engine with over 100 more HP. 
I'd be more serious if I was rich. Unfortunately pistons don't magically appear and install themselves, so 'serious or not' is moot.
As for the 2011 modding, everyone sit tight. It will come. Anyone buying a 2011 is essentially getting a 100hp upgrade over the current so that can occupy for a bit. Plus don't forget there's the rest of the vehicle to take care of. The suspension and chassis are likely unchanged (or not so far off they can't take current aftermarket mods) and there's always non-engine upgrades that can be done (like cooling, brakes, etc).
As for the 2011 modding, everyone sit tight. It will come. Anyone buying a 2011 is essentially getting a 100hp upgrade over the current so that can occupy for a bit. Plus don't forget there's the rest of the vehicle to take care of. The suspension and chassis are likely unchanged (or not so far off they can't take current aftermarket mods) and there's always non-engine upgrades that can be done (like cooling, brakes, etc).
1/4/10, 09:52 AM
#38
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Sure, but I don't remember seeing anything totally new, so it's likely there are a lot of parts that can be upgraded regardless.
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