Hips or Shoulders?
Mach 1 Member
Joined: February 17, 2004
Posts: 543
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis, IN
If you are saying the rise in the rear quarter line is a shoulder then it most definitely is below the beltline, especially since the modern interpretation of the "shoulder" appears to be more of a body line. Either way the Beltline is defined as the area of the car at the bottom of the greenhouse ( the bottom of the front windshield, side glass, and rear windshield). Since the rear deck (who's height is determined by the quarter panels that contain the "shoulder" line) is lower then the bottom of the rear windshield this would put the "shoulder" below the beltline.
Cobra Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 1,380
Likes: 0
It's not??? (someone's wearing beer goggles)
If you are saying the rise in the rear quarter line is a shoulder then it most definitely is below the beltline, especially since the modern interpretation of the "shoulder" appears to be more of a body line. Either way the Beltline is defined as the area of the car at the bottom of the greenhouse ( the bottom of the front windshield, side glass, and rear windshield). Since the rear deck (who's height is determined by the quarter panels that contain the "shoulder" line) is lower then the bottom of the rear windshield this would put the "shoulder" below the beltline.
If you are saying the rise in the rear quarter line is a shoulder then it most definitely is below the beltline, especially since the modern interpretation of the "shoulder" appears to be more of a body line. Either way the Beltline is defined as the area of the car at the bottom of the greenhouse ( the bottom of the front windshield, side glass, and rear windshield). Since the rear deck (who's height is determined by the quarter panels that contain the "shoulder" line) is lower then the bottom of the rear windshield this would put the "shoulder" below the beltline.
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
+ 9000 But why not add a little fuel to the flames? 
IMHO, even if they are technically not "hips" and are truly shoulders by definition, it still makes more sense to me to call them hips because they towards the rear of the car. And it wouldn't make sense to have shoulders attached to your bum
And if they are gonna use anatomical references to describe styling cues, they should at least make sense
IMHO, even if they are technically not "hips" and are truly shoulders by definition, it still makes more sense to me to call them hips because they towards the rear of the car. And it wouldn't make sense to have shoulders attached to your bum
And if they are gonna use anatomical references to describe styling cues, they should at least make sense
I lust for a M24
Joined: November 6, 2004
Posts: 7,042
Likes: 4
From: Football HOF, Canton OH
No, they're not hips or sholders... they're thighs because in Transformers the quarter panels become the thighs of the robot. You guys really need to take an anatomy lesson.
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
MOTM Committee Member
Joined: April 17, 2006
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 2
From: SoCal
Bullitt Member
Joined: April 28, 2008
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Looks like the best we can do here is agree to disagree. Call 'em whatever you personally prefer. Arguing the point further makes about as much sense as arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...
Cobra Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 1,380
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There isn't any argument, except from those who want to call them something else. The detail is called 'shoulders' Proof of that has been shown, and there is more proof out there for anyone who cares to look. I don't care enough to put up more 'evidence'
(Everyone knows Angels don't dance)
(Everyone knows Angels don't dance)
Mach 1 Member
Joined: February 17, 2004
Posts: 543
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis, IN
How do you figure???? The only part of the body of the car that is above the beltline is the roof. So how can the rear quarter panels be above the belt line? See attached photo.
I agree that this thread is pointless, but am very interested in your explanation as it repeatedly makes no sence.
Proof?? Where is your proof? You have shown no proof. you have stated opinion over and over. If you state you've provided proof then site the sources, show us the technical journals or design standards you have found the data in. A term being used once in a GM statement does not make it the Universal Design term.
I can't show you mine because I haven't found a single reference where this is empirically stated. Of course I have never giving my opinion on what they should be called.
Call it what it is, it is your opinion that they are shoulders unless you actually site your sources. You've given good reasons why they should be called shoulders, but others have supplied equally good reasons for calling them hips.
I don't care what they are called as long as the next stang has them, as I believe the rear of the current stang is blah.
I agree that this thread is pointless, but am very interested in your explanation as it repeatedly makes no sence.
Proof?? Where is your proof? You have shown no proof. you have stated opinion over and over. If you state you've provided proof then site the sources, show us the technical journals or design standards you have found the data in. A term being used once in a GM statement does not make it the Universal Design term.
I can't show you mine because I haven't found a single reference where this is empirically stated. Of course I have never giving my opinion on what they should be called.
Call it what it is, it is your opinion that they are shoulders unless you actually site your sources. You've given good reasons why they should be called shoulders, but others have supplied equally good reasons for calling them hips.
I don't care what they are called as long as the next stang has them, as I believe the rear of the current stang is blah.
Last edited by jarradasay; Jul 25, 2008 at 09:04 AM.
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: February 5, 2008
Posts: 2,339
Likes: 3
From: Chattanooga
I'll add my 2 cents. After 35 years of studying car design, the term "shouldered" or "shoulders" refers to how the bodysides steps out from the beltline at the bottom of the greenhouse. Most cars were shouldered up until the 1970's when cars most cars evolved into fuselage designs with no shoulders.
Some cars had what is called a "hop-up" in the shoulder behind the front doors. This is the proper description that designers used developing the original Mustang. This was a popular design element on numerous cars in the 1950's but the "hop-up" that most closely resembles the original Mustang is the 1956 Continental Mark II. The Mustang owes it's heritage and proportions to Continentals and Thunderbirds of that era.
Some late 1960's cars developed a Coke-bottle shape which resembles a "pinched waist" in the middle section of the car. Cars with a Coke-bottle shape follow human anatomy in this respect. You can say that some cars have "hips" because the quarter panels bulge outward from the center of the body.
The 1967-68 Mustang looked more like the 1965-66 started pumping up in the gym. From there it evolved into the 1969-70 Mustang wich had more of a "pinched waist" and "voluptuous hips". It still had a "hop-up" in the rear quarter panel but it was much softer and elliptical than before. This transformed the Mustang into looking more like an animal creature with haunches that was ready to attack it's prey.
The 1969-70 was less shouldered as the body began to evolve into a fuselage shape. The 1971 Mustang became a true fuselage shape when it came out with a more shallow shouldered beltline running from the front which disappeared as it wrapped under and up behind the rear quarter windows while the shape of the quarter windows suggested a hop-up on a relatively smooth and flat rear quater panel. The rear deck lines came forward and faded into the rear quarter panels.
The current generation Mustang is shouldered with no hop-up and no hips. The 2010 will be "shouldered" with a "hop-up" and evidence of hips as the quarter panels bulge outward away from the doors towards the wheel openings...
Some cars had what is called a "hop-up" in the shoulder behind the front doors. This is the proper description that designers used developing the original Mustang. This was a popular design element on numerous cars in the 1950's but the "hop-up" that most closely resembles the original Mustang is the 1956 Continental Mark II. The Mustang owes it's heritage and proportions to Continentals and Thunderbirds of that era.
Some late 1960's cars developed a Coke-bottle shape which resembles a "pinched waist" in the middle section of the car. Cars with a Coke-bottle shape follow human anatomy in this respect. You can say that some cars have "hips" because the quarter panels bulge outward from the center of the body.
The 1967-68 Mustang looked more like the 1965-66 started pumping up in the gym. From there it evolved into the 1969-70 Mustang wich had more of a "pinched waist" and "voluptuous hips". It still had a "hop-up" in the rear quarter panel but it was much softer and elliptical than before. This transformed the Mustang into looking more like an animal creature with haunches that was ready to attack it's prey.
The 1969-70 was less shouldered as the body began to evolve into a fuselage shape. The 1971 Mustang became a true fuselage shape when it came out with a more shallow shouldered beltline running from the front which disappeared as it wrapped under and up behind the rear quarter windows while the shape of the quarter windows suggested a hop-up on a relatively smooth and flat rear quater panel. The rear deck lines came forward and faded into the rear quarter panels.
The current generation Mustang is shouldered with no hop-up and no hips. The 2010 will be "shouldered" with a "hop-up" and evidence of hips as the quarter panels bulge outward away from the doors towards the wheel openings...
Last edited by watchdevil; Jul 25, 2008 at 11:17 AM.
Mach 1 Member
Joined: February 17, 2004
Posts: 543
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis, IN
I'll add my 2 cents. After 35 years of studying car design, the term "shouldered" or "shoulders" refers to how the bodysides steps out from the beltline at the bottom of the greenhouse. Most cars were shouldered up until the 1970's when cars most cars evolved into fuselage designs with no shoulders.
Some cars had what is called a "hop-up" in the shoulder behind the front doors. This is the proper description that designers used developing the original Mustang. This was a popular design element on numerous cars in the 1950's but the "hop-up" that most closely resembles the original Mustang is the 1956 Continental Mark II. The Mustang owes it's heritage and proportions to Continentals and Thunderbirds of that era.
Some late 1960's cars developed a Coke-bottle shape which resembles a "pinched waist" in the middle section of the car. Cars with a Coke-bottle shape follow human anatomy in this respect. You can say that some cars have "hips" because the quarter panels bulge outward from the center of the body.
The 1967-68 Mustang looked more like the 1965-66 started pumping up in the gym. From there it evolved into the 1969-70 Mustang wich had more of a "pinched waist" and "voluptuous hips". It still had a "hop-up" in the rear quarter panel but it was much softer and elliptical than before. This transformed the Mustang into looking more like an animal creature with haunches that was ready to attack it's prey.
The 1969-70 was less shouldered as the body began to evolve into a fuselage shape. The 1971 Mustang became a true fuselage shape when it came out with a more shallow shouldered beltline running from the front which disappeared as it wrapped under and up behind the rear quarter windows while the shape of the quarter windows suggested a hop-up on a relatively smooth and flat rear quater panel. The rear deck lines came forward and faded into the rear quarter panels.
The current generation Mustang is shouldered with no hop-up and no hips. The 2010 will be "shouldered" with a "hop-up" and evidence of hips as the quarter panels bulge outward away from the doors towards the wheel openings...
Some cars had what is called a "hop-up" in the shoulder behind the front doors. This is the proper description that designers used developing the original Mustang. This was a popular design element on numerous cars in the 1950's but the "hop-up" that most closely resembles the original Mustang is the 1956 Continental Mark II. The Mustang owes it's heritage and proportions to Continentals and Thunderbirds of that era.
Some late 1960's cars developed a Coke-bottle shape which resembles a "pinched waist" in the middle section of the car. Cars with a Coke-bottle shape follow human anatomy in this respect. You can say that some cars have "hips" because the quarter panels bulge outward from the center of the body.
The 1967-68 Mustang looked more like the 1965-66 started pumping up in the gym. From there it evolved into the 1969-70 Mustang wich had more of a "pinched waist" and "voluptuous hips". It still had a "hop-up" in the rear quarter panel but it was much softer and elliptical than before. This transformed the Mustang into looking more like an animal creature with haunches that was ready to attack it's prey.
The 1969-70 was less shouldered as the body began to evolve into a fuselage shape. The 1971 Mustang became a true fuselage shape when it came out with a more shallow shouldered beltline running from the front which disappeared as it wrapped under and up behind the rear quarter windows while the shape of the quarter windows suggested a hop-up on a relatively smooth and flat rear quater panel. The rear deck lines came forward and faded into the rear quarter panels.
The current generation Mustang is shouldered with no hop-up and no hips. The 2010 will be "shouldered" with a "hop-up" and evidence of hips as the quarter panels bulge outward away from the doors towards the wheel openings...
Bullitt Member
Joined: April 28, 2008
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
I'll add my 2 cents. After 35 years of studying car design, the term "shouldered" or "shoulders" refers to how the bodysides steps out from the beltline at the bottom of the greenhouse. Most cars were shouldered up until the 1970's when cars most cars evolved into fuselage designs with no shoulders.
Some cars had what is called a "hop-up" in the shoulder behind the front doors. This is the proper description that designers used developing the original Mustang. This was a popular design element on numerous cars in the 1950's but the "hop-up" that most closely resembles the original Mustang is the 1956 Continental Mark II. The Mustang owes it's heritage and proportions to Continentals and Thunderbirds of that era.
Some late 1960's cars developed a Coke-bottle shape which resembles a "pinched waist" in the middle section of the car. Cars with a Coke-bottle shape follow human anatomy in this respect. You can say that some cars have "hips" because the quarter panels bulge outward from the center of the body.
The 1967-68 Mustang looked more like the 1965-66 started pumping up in the gym. From there it evolved into the 1969-70 Mustang wich had more of a "pinched waist" and "voluptuous hips". It still had a "hop-up" in the rear quarter panel but it was much softer and elliptical than before. This transformed the Mustang into looking more like an animal creature with haunches that was ready to attack it's prey.
The 1969-70 was less shouldered as the body began to evolve into a fuselage shape. The 1971 Mustang became a true fuselage shape when it came out with a more shallow shouldered beltline running from the front which disappeared as it wrapped under and up behind the rear quarter windows while the shape of the quarter windows suggested a hop-up on a relatively smooth and flat rear quater panel. The rear deck lines came forward and faded into the rear quarter panels.
The current generation Mustang is shouldered with no hop-up and no hips. The 2010 will be "shouldered" with a "hop-up" and evidence of hips as the quarter panels bulge outward away from the doors towards the wheel openings...
Some cars had what is called a "hop-up" in the shoulder behind the front doors. This is the proper description that designers used developing the original Mustang. This was a popular design element on numerous cars in the 1950's but the "hop-up" that most closely resembles the original Mustang is the 1956 Continental Mark II. The Mustang owes it's heritage and proportions to Continentals and Thunderbirds of that era.
Some late 1960's cars developed a Coke-bottle shape which resembles a "pinched waist" in the middle section of the car. Cars with a Coke-bottle shape follow human anatomy in this respect. You can say that some cars have "hips" because the quarter panels bulge outward from the center of the body.
The 1967-68 Mustang looked more like the 1965-66 started pumping up in the gym. From there it evolved into the 1969-70 Mustang wich had more of a "pinched waist" and "voluptuous hips". It still had a "hop-up" in the rear quarter panel but it was much softer and elliptical than before. This transformed the Mustang into looking more like an animal creature with haunches that was ready to attack it's prey.
The 1969-70 was less shouldered as the body began to evolve into a fuselage shape. The 1971 Mustang became a true fuselage shape when it came out with a more shallow shouldered beltline running from the front which disappeared as it wrapped under and up behind the rear quarter windows while the shape of the quarter windows suggested a hop-up on a relatively smooth and flat rear quater panel. The rear deck lines came forward and faded into the rear quarter panels.
The current generation Mustang is shouldered with no hop-up and no hips. The 2010 will be "shouldered" with a "hop-up" and evidence of hips as the quarter panels bulge outward away from the doors towards the wheel openings...
so are we going to add a poll to this bad boy and make it offical of what?...lol
Needs to be more Astony
Joined: October 4, 2004
Posts: 8,610
Likes: 5
From: Volo, IL
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=470721
Cobra Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 1,380
Likes: 0
I'll add my 2 cents. After 35 years of studying car design, the term "shouldered" or "shoulders" refers to how the bodysides steps out from the beltline at the bottom of the greenhouse. Most cars were shouldered up until the 1970's when cars most cars evolved into fuselage designs with no shoulders.
Some cars had what is called a "hop-up" in the shoulder behind the front doors. This is the proper description that designers used developing the original Mustang. This was a popular design element on numerous cars in the 1950's but the "hop-up" that most closely resembles the original Mustang is the 1956 Continental Mark II. The Mustang owes it's heritage and proportions to Continentals and Thunderbirds of that era.
Some late 1960's cars developed a Coke-bottle shape which resembles a "pinched waist" in the middle section of the car. Cars with a Coke-bottle shape follow human anatomy in this respect. You can say that some cars have "hips" because the quarter panels bulge outward from the center of the body.
The 1967-68 Mustang looked more like the 1965-66 started pumping up in the gym. From there it evolved into the 1969-70 Mustang wich had more of a "pinched waist" and "voluptuous hips". It still had a "hop-up" in the rear quarter panel but it was much softer and elliptical than before. This transformed the Mustang into looking more like an animal creature with haunches that was ready to attack it's prey.
The 1969-70 was less shouldered as the body began to evolve into a fuselage shape. The 1971 Mustang became a true fuselage shape when it came out with a more shallow shouldered beltline running from the front which disappeared as it wrapped under and up behind the rear quarter windows while the shape of the quarter windows suggested a hop-up on a relatively smooth and flat rear quater panel. The rear deck lines came forward and faded into the rear quarter panels.
The current generation Mustang is shouldered with no hop-up and no hips. The 2010 will be "shouldered" with a "hop-up" and evidence of hips as the quarter panels bulge outward away from the doors towards the wheel openings...
Some cars had what is called a "hop-up" in the shoulder behind the front doors. This is the proper description that designers used developing the original Mustang. This was a popular design element on numerous cars in the 1950's but the "hop-up" that most closely resembles the original Mustang is the 1956 Continental Mark II. The Mustang owes it's heritage and proportions to Continentals and Thunderbirds of that era.
Some late 1960's cars developed a Coke-bottle shape which resembles a "pinched waist" in the middle section of the car. Cars with a Coke-bottle shape follow human anatomy in this respect. You can say that some cars have "hips" because the quarter panels bulge outward from the center of the body.
The 1967-68 Mustang looked more like the 1965-66 started pumping up in the gym. From there it evolved into the 1969-70 Mustang wich had more of a "pinched waist" and "voluptuous hips". It still had a "hop-up" in the rear quarter panel but it was much softer and elliptical than before. This transformed the Mustang into looking more like an animal creature with haunches that was ready to attack it's prey.
The 1969-70 was less shouldered as the body began to evolve into a fuselage shape. The 1971 Mustang became a true fuselage shape when it came out with a more shallow shouldered beltline running from the front which disappeared as it wrapped under and up behind the rear quarter windows while the shape of the quarter windows suggested a hop-up on a relatively smooth and flat rear quater panel. The rear deck lines came forward and faded into the rear quarter panels.
The current generation Mustang is shouldered with no hop-up and no hips. The 2010 will be "shouldered" with a "hop-up" and evidence of hips as the quarter panels bulge outward away from the doors towards the wheel openings...
Cobra Member
Joined: October 27, 2007
Posts: 1,380
Likes: 0
How do you figure???? The only part of the body of the car that is above the beltline is the roof. So how can the rear quarter panels be above the belt line? See attached photo.
I agree that this thread is pointless, but am very interested in your explanation as it repeatedly makes no sence.
Proof?? Where is your proof? You have shown no proof. you have stated opinion over and over. If you state you've provided proof then site the sources, show us the technical journals or design standards you have found the data in. A term being used once in a GM statement does not make it the Universal Design term.
I can't show you mine because I haven't found a single reference where this is empirically stated. Of course I have never giving my opinion on what they should be called.
Call it what it is, it is your opinion that they are shoulders unless you actually site your sources. You've given good reasons why they should be called shoulders, but others have supplied equally good reasons for calling them hips.
I don't care what they are called as long as the next stang has them, as I believe the rear of the current stang is blah.
I agree that this thread is pointless, but am very interested in your explanation as it repeatedly makes no sence.
Proof?? Where is your proof? You have shown no proof. you have stated opinion over and over. If you state you've provided proof then site the sources, show us the technical journals or design standards you have found the data in. A term being used once in a GM statement does not make it the Universal Design term.
I can't show you mine because I haven't found a single reference where this is empirically stated. Of course I have never giving my opinion on what they should be called.
Call it what it is, it is your opinion that they are shoulders unless you actually site your sources. You've given good reasons why they should be called shoulders, but others have supplied equally good reasons for calling them hips.
I don't care what they are called as long as the next stang has them, as I believe the rear of the current stang is blah.
Sorry but it's not just my 'opinion'.
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