Flatrock Commentary
6/16/11 | 05:48 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Bullitt Member
Joined: January 17, 2011
Posts: 257
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Flatrock Commentary
From Automotive News, a report from Bloomberg that Mustang is losing ground to the Camaro in sales; and the future of the Flat Rock Plant is in question. Take a look
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...306169874/1492
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...306169874/1492
Last edited by chief_charlie; 6/16/11 at 05:49 PM. Reason: spelling
6/16/11 | 08:01 PM
#3
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Joined: January 4, 2006
Posts: 3,907
Likes: 31
GM is stepping up the pressure by updating the Camaro next month with a more powerful V-6 engine that gets 30 mpg on the highway, Fitzpatrick said. It also is updating the car's interior with new features like a smaller steering wheel, he said.
.
Cheech Marin quote from the '70s:
Q: Why do Low Riders have those really super small steering wheels on their cars?
A: So they can drive while wearing handcuffs.
.
Cheech Marin quote from the '70s:
Q: Why do Low Riders have those really super small steering wheels on their cars?
A: So they can drive while wearing handcuffs.
6/16/11 | 08:46 PM
#5
Mach 1 Member
Joined: January 8, 2011
Posts: 542
Likes: 1
From: CO
It's hard to swallow that Mustang owners are trading in their 'stangs for Camaros. I've driven one and besides having no head room and not being able to see out the back, the general performance was meh. Is it is as simple as its just newer looking?
6/16/11 | 09:01 PM
#8
Cobra R Member
Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 0
From: London, ON. Canada
There will still be a few more chapters to write in this latest muscle car war.
But be thankful that Ford has given us the type of cars they have. Count yourself lucky that they brought back the Boss.
6/16/11 | 09:50 PM
#10
Cobra R Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 1
From: Ontario
Truth be told I like the look of the new Camaro more than the Mustang. Heck I really didn't like the look of the Boss at all when I first saw it. But I lusted after what it offered. Now I have one, I admire the look of Camaros through my windows but LOVE driving my Mustang. Boss? You bet!
6/16/11 | 10:38 PM
#11
Team Mustang Source
Joined: September 16, 2005
Posts: 1,706
Likes: 2
From: Yatta-Abba, AL
Unfortunately down here, Camaro's are plentyfull on lots and Dealers cant get Mustangs. Add to that, the Camaro (Similarly equiped) is 3 up to 8 THOUSAND Dollars Less. TO me anyway the Camaro looks stunning..........over 100 feet away that is. Up close and personal, not. especially the interior. A lot of folks will be unhappy, and lose their shirts when trying to unload them.
6/16/11 | 11:16 PM
#12
Bullitt Member
Joined: January 12, 2005
Posts: 294
Likes: 1
From: Ohio
One of my co-workers bought a V-6 Camaro a couple of months ago. Surprised the heck of me when I saw it parked in his spot one morning. Prior to that he had been pricing Mustangs on a daily basis. I think price is what put him over the edge. When the Camaro first came out he complained about how cheap the interior looked. I'm sure the fact that he was trading another GM product, a Solstice, played a part as well. I have not asked him why he bought that instead of a Stang but I know he winced at the price every time he did the Build Your Own thing on Ford's website. My guess is he couldn't get the price he wanted from any of the local Ford dealers. With the possible exception of the F-150, Ford and their dealers are all about profits these days, not sales volumes. Despite bankruptcy, GM hasn't really changed how they do business and for a lot of buyers in this economy, when it comes right down to it, money talks and BS walks.
6/17/11 | 12:02 AM
#13
Post Edited . . .
Last edited by Evil_Capri; 6/18/11 at 05:50 AM. Reason: Please do not post profanity per the rules of TMS.
6/17/11 | 07:02 AM
#14
Cobra Member
Joined: April 14, 2011
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 25
From: NJ. Waiting for our Gov. to be held accountable for his actions>>>Jersey Broke
The car was introduced to the press as the Camaro, considered to be a good name because nobody knew what it meant. Chevrolet produced an old French dictionary showing that the word meant "friend" or "companion", but Ford found an alternate meaning in an old Spanish dictionary-"a small, shrimp-like creature."
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_...#ixzz1PX8udYiU
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_...#ixzz1PX8udYiU
6/17/11 | 07:38 AM
#15
Member
Joined: May 18, 2011
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
Flatrock Commentary
Ya gotta love the media and those who are gullible and believe that the headlines represent the substance of a news story.
If you visit Google News and search for Ford Mustang, here are just some of the headlines you'll see from the media (some of which are desperate for attention to get you to click on their links and impress their advertisers or try to also sell you a subscription):
o "With Camaro outselling Mustang, Ford's Flat Rock factory at risk" (MLIVE.COM)
o "Camaro Outruns Mustang as Lost Sales Put Factory in Doubt" (San Francisco Chronicle)
o "Ford's Flat Rock Factory in Jeopardy as Mustang Sales Fall Behind Chevrolet Camaro" (Motor Trend)
o "Chevrolet Camaro Sales Outpacing Ford Mustang, Is Ford's Flat Rock Factory in Jeopardy" (Automobile Magazine)
o "Camaro Outruns Mustang, Threatening Factory" (Bloomberg)
The Flatrock plant has capacity to build 240,000 cars per year. Mazda's 6 has been a sales disaster, selling at less than 36,000 per year. With Mazda pulling out, even if there were ZERO Camaro sales and Mustang sales increased 50% over what they currently are, Flatrock would still be utilized at less than half its capacity. Thus, Flatrock is probably not sustainable economically with only a single specialty car line (currently, Mustang).
Camaro has little to do with Flatrock's future. The pull-out of Mazda has nearly everything to do with Flatrock's future but you'd never know it by looking at the headlines I listed above.
As for those who are wringing their hands and screaming the sky is falling re Camaro vs Mustang sales, I really wish folks would aim their sights higher and focus on the fact that Mustang is the superior car. In every automotive AND consumer publication I've read, Mustang beats Camaro hands down in practically any category you want to mention. Motor Trend summed it up best when they wrote: "The Mustang feels like a scalpel; the Camaro a hammer. Camaro feels like a concept car or a toy. Fun in a big plastic Lego blocks kinda way, but certainly not the kind of place you'd like to spend a lot of time." I say let the kids play with their Lego blocks. I'll enjoy driving a real car: Mustang.
Or, to put it another way, Camaro is the equivalent of a McDonald's hamburger, in my opinion, and Mustang is the equivalent of a good, juicy steak dinner. Of course McDonald's sells more hamburgers than anyone else sells steaks. So what? It doesn't affect how I enjoy my steak and Camaro sales certainly don't affect how I enjoy my fantastic and flawless 2011 Mustang GT.
Thanks to the 2005 retro Mustang, everyone and their brother wants a piece of the pony/muscle car market - Camaro, Challenger, Genesis Coupe, others. Consequently, Mustang sales will probably never return to the volumes back when Mustang had the entire market to itself. As I mentioned in a previous post, Ford has elected to severely limit many Ford dealer's allocation for Mustangs in contrast to Chevy whose dealers have 30+ Camaros in stock. The dealer I typically buy from has only two Mustangs in inventory (as I write this) - both are GT's. On top of this, Ford is currently limiting V6 Mustang production (V6 Mustangs account for over 50% of sales) due to insufficient supply of 3.7L V6 engines for both the F-150 and Mustang (F-150 is more profitable ...thus, F150 gets the engines while Mustang production waits). Of course, all of this has an impact on Mustang sales -- few people want to go through the hassle of ordering a car and waiting 2-3 months for it to arrive. They either don't buy or they go to the competition. Those who are hoping for a magic bullet restyle in 2014 or some other new revision are fooling themselves if they think Mustang's sales will return to the "glory days" of no competition. Not gonna happen.
As for the AAI plant in Flatrock, I hope Ford is able to utilize the extra capacity by adding a future car line to it. Already, the plant is flexible since it builds both rear-wheel drive and front-wheel drive cars (on two totally different platforms). Perhaps this is an opportunity for Ford to insource or replace an older, inefficient plant with capacity from Flatrock.
To the Media: Shame on you for the misleading, overdramatic headlines I listed above.
To my fellow Mustangers: Let's get on with enjoying and customizing our cars. Enough hand-wringing and chicken little stuff over Camaro/Mustang sales already
If you visit Google News and search for Ford Mustang, here are just some of the headlines you'll see from the media (some of which are desperate for attention to get you to click on their links and impress their advertisers or try to also sell you a subscription):
o "With Camaro outselling Mustang, Ford's Flat Rock factory at risk" (MLIVE.COM)
o "Camaro Outruns Mustang as Lost Sales Put Factory in Doubt" (San Francisco Chronicle)
o "Ford's Flat Rock Factory in Jeopardy as Mustang Sales Fall Behind Chevrolet Camaro" (Motor Trend)
o "Chevrolet Camaro Sales Outpacing Ford Mustang, Is Ford's Flat Rock Factory in Jeopardy" (Automobile Magazine)
o "Camaro Outruns Mustang, Threatening Factory" (Bloomberg)
The Flatrock plant has capacity to build 240,000 cars per year. Mazda's 6 has been a sales disaster, selling at less than 36,000 per year. With Mazda pulling out, even if there were ZERO Camaro sales and Mustang sales increased 50% over what they currently are, Flatrock would still be utilized at less than half its capacity. Thus, Flatrock is probably not sustainable economically with only a single specialty car line (currently, Mustang).
Camaro has little to do with Flatrock's future. The pull-out of Mazda has nearly everything to do with Flatrock's future but you'd never know it by looking at the headlines I listed above.
As for those who are wringing their hands and screaming the sky is falling re Camaro vs Mustang sales, I really wish folks would aim their sights higher and focus on the fact that Mustang is the superior car. In every automotive AND consumer publication I've read, Mustang beats Camaro hands down in practically any category you want to mention. Motor Trend summed it up best when they wrote: "The Mustang feels like a scalpel; the Camaro a hammer. Camaro feels like a concept car or a toy. Fun in a big plastic Lego blocks kinda way, but certainly not the kind of place you'd like to spend a lot of time." I say let the kids play with their Lego blocks. I'll enjoy driving a real car: Mustang.
Or, to put it another way, Camaro is the equivalent of a McDonald's hamburger, in my opinion, and Mustang is the equivalent of a good, juicy steak dinner. Of course McDonald's sells more hamburgers than anyone else sells steaks. So what? It doesn't affect how I enjoy my steak and Camaro sales certainly don't affect how I enjoy my fantastic and flawless 2011 Mustang GT.
Thanks to the 2005 retro Mustang, everyone and their brother wants a piece of the pony/muscle car market - Camaro, Challenger, Genesis Coupe, others. Consequently, Mustang sales will probably never return to the volumes back when Mustang had the entire market to itself. As I mentioned in a previous post, Ford has elected to severely limit many Ford dealer's allocation for Mustangs in contrast to Chevy whose dealers have 30+ Camaros in stock. The dealer I typically buy from has only two Mustangs in inventory (as I write this) - both are GT's. On top of this, Ford is currently limiting V6 Mustang production (V6 Mustangs account for over 50% of sales) due to insufficient supply of 3.7L V6 engines for both the F-150 and Mustang (F-150 is more profitable ...thus, F150 gets the engines while Mustang production waits). Of course, all of this has an impact on Mustang sales -- few people want to go through the hassle of ordering a car and waiting 2-3 months for it to arrive. They either don't buy or they go to the competition. Those who are hoping for a magic bullet restyle in 2014 or some other new revision are fooling themselves if they think Mustang's sales will return to the "glory days" of no competition. Not gonna happen.
As for the AAI plant in Flatrock, I hope Ford is able to utilize the extra capacity by adding a future car line to it. Already, the plant is flexible since it builds both rear-wheel drive and front-wheel drive cars (on two totally different platforms). Perhaps this is an opportunity for Ford to insource or replace an older, inefficient plant with capacity from Flatrock.
To the Media: Shame on you for the misleading, overdramatic headlines I listed above.
To my fellow Mustangers: Let's get on with enjoying and customizing our cars. Enough hand-wringing and chicken little stuff over Camaro/Mustang sales already
Last edited by Java2011Mustang; 6/17/11 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Typo error: Changed "that" to "than"
Plus the mustang actually looks like its ancestors vs that transformer.
6/17/11 | 08:57 AM
#18
Member
Joined: June 17, 2011
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Michigan, USA
Worth the wait!
I ordered my 2011 Mustang GT last year and it did take a little longer then expected but was so worth the wait. I live in Michigan and was very happy to hear my car was assembled in Flat Rock. I hope Ford will add another car to keep Flat Rock going. Why are people so hip on buying Camaros they are assembled in Canada!!!
My Engine and transmissions are from the U.S. and my MUSTANG was assembled in Flat Rock, MI! THAT is something to be proud of America. I get quite a bit of trash talk about my car with all the people that are centered around GM here and then I tell them my car was actually assembled in Michigan and they say Ford still uses parts from other countries. Well they do but make a big effort to be as american made as possible and they dont get all the help from the government.
So I say Go Ford, I LOVE my car and where it was built.
Great article!
My Engine and transmissions are from the U.S. and my MUSTANG was assembled in Flat Rock, MI! THAT is something to be proud of America. I get quite a bit of trash talk about my car with all the people that are centered around GM here and then I tell them my car was actually assembled in Michigan and they say Ford still uses parts from other countries. Well they do but make a big effort to be as american made as possible and they dont get all the help from the government.
So I say Go Ford, I LOVE my car and where it was built.
Great article!
6/17/11 | 09:00 AM
#19
GTR Member
Joined: September 28, 2009
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 1
OP gets it. Mazda is the bigger reason for this problem. Blaming the Camaro, that's pure sensationalism at its finest.
Ford is working on replacements. Don't expect a Lincoln coupe or CLS/Passat CC type sedan on a new Mustang platform til after 2015MY starts at the earliest. They may use the plant in other ways to fill the gaps. I know part of the facility is used for decal install for the Raptor, Boss, and GT500 as well.
I just wasted time and went to Camaro5 and read their take on the story, and they make it sound like they're the sole reason this is happening. Lay off the peyote over there.
Ford is working on replacements. Don't expect a Lincoln coupe or CLS/Passat CC type sedan on a new Mustang platform til after 2015MY starts at the earliest. They may use the plant in other ways to fill the gaps. I know part of the facility is used for decal install for the Raptor, Boss, and GT500 as well.
I just wasted time and went to Camaro5 and read their take on the story, and they make it sound like they're the sole reason this is happening. Lay off the peyote over there.
6/17/11 | 09:22 AM
#20
Bullitt Member
Joined: January 31, 2004
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: Avon, OH
Way to hold up your end of the bargain, Mazda... And in the same week, Mazda announces they're building a new plant in Mexico.
I think Ford will threaten the future of Avon Lake and other factories as they head into UAW negotiations knowing they could run another car down the Flatrock line.
And my response to all these "Camaro outsells Mustang" articles: Mustang outsold the Camaro 900,000 to zero from 2003 to 2009. Camaro will never make up that gap.
2010+ Camaro sales are mostly made up of 7 years of selling zero. Mustang fans didn't have to hold off, and in this economy, the guy with a perfectly good 2008 Mustang probably will hold off trading it in until he knows his job/future is solid.
"Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours."
I think Ford will threaten the future of Avon Lake and other factories as they head into UAW negotiations knowing they could run another car down the Flatrock line.
And my response to all these "Camaro outsells Mustang" articles: Mustang outsold the Camaro 900,000 to zero from 2003 to 2009. Camaro will never make up that gap.
2010+ Camaro sales are mostly made up of 7 years of selling zero. Mustang fans didn't have to hold off, and in this economy, the guy with a perfectly good 2008 Mustang probably will hold off trading it in until he knows his job/future is solid.
"Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours."